America needs to start reform with getting rid of the "rubber rooms" as well.

HerbieHeadley

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As an aside? Way to man-up Herbie. :thumbsup:
tulc(likes when we're honest with each other) :wave:
After reading the link... I was way to generous, maybe. ;)

And stop pretending to not be partisan Barry. :p
 
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tulc

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After reading the link... I was way to generous, maybe. ;)
As you will! :)

And stop pretending to not be partisan Barry. :p
never said I wasn't partisan, I just like when people can be honest.
tulc(have a good night Herbie!) :wave:
 
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DaisyDay

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The rubber room is for those ACCUSED not convicted. It is a waste of money, but that's management's decision to try to get these people to quit. They could be put to use doing clerical work or teaching adult ed while awaiting their hearings. The hearings could also be expedited instead of drug out over years.
 
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rambot

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Well, who is coddling the criminal? I gather you would be for reforming the union first?

Why does the state or federal government need special unions to begin with?
Please HH. The whole pretense of an argument is laughable if you start your argument as it was.

Why don't you find a piece of writing that argues the same point without being sensationalist lunacy?

"Who is coddling the criminal?" Who is writing this utter garbage?

"He hasn’t set foot in a classroom in seven years since beating criminal and disciplinary charges. Chancellor Joel Klein keeps Olivares in a “rubber room,” a district office where teachers accused of misconduct sit all day with nothing to do."

Do you guys support paying over 94K a year for one guy to sit and do nothing?
Doesn't that kind of, completely undermine the article's intended purpose?
Hey, I'm ALL FOR getting that guy back in the classroom; of course that is not what the article OR the OP are suggesting is the problem though is it?
 
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chaz345

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Hmm,

Looks like a pretty new urban legend! I say new becaseu snopes has nothing when I searched on Francisco Olivares. I say legend because I found this link:

Weird Teacher Watch: Francisco Olivares Gets Paid to Not Have Sex With Students - True Crime Report

Which has a very similar report. But instead of being set in California it is set in New York.

Now some people may think both are evil, but I hope even the detractors will admit we are evil in different ways.

The specifics of that case may be urban legend but the existance of such "rubber rooms" in the NYC public school system is well documented.
 
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chaz345

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The rubber room is for those ACCUSED not convicted. It is a waste of money, but that's management's decision to try to get these people to quit. They could be put to use doing clerical work or teaching adult ed while awaiting their hearings. The hearings could also be expedited instead of drug out over years.

Why do the hearings get dragged out over years? Policy and procedure dictated by the unions perhaps?

A related but different problem is how in a lot of cases where an accusation of sexual misconduct is made against a teacher, they will resign under an agreement that the district not say anything about the accusation to potential future employers. That's easier and cheaper for the district than trying to fire the teacher,even with solid evidence.
 
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DaisyDay

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Why do the hearings get dragged out over years? Policy and procedure dictated by the unions perhaps?
I can see the guilty ones dragging it out, but not the innocent ones who really do want to teach.

A related but different problem is how in a lot of cases where an accusation of sexual misconduct is made against a teacher, they will resign under an agreement that the district not say anything about the accusation to potential future employers. That's easier and cheaper for the district than trying to fire the teacher,even with solid evidence.
But that has little to do with unions - most employers nowadays just take the cheap and easy route to avoid future litigation.
 
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chaz345

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But that has little to do with unions - most employers nowadays just take the cheap and easy route to avoid future litigation.

It has everything to do with the unions. If it were easier to fire a teacher with that problem, then that is the route most districts would go. But the reality is that, intended or not, the mechanisms set up by the unions to protect all teachers, are used by the molestors(and the occasional lazy or just plain bad teacher) to avoid being fired.
 
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chaz345

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How many times does Brietbart need to be caught in "creative editting" before the right admits that the man has no integrity?

Well the left never did get that many of their heros have no integrity so why should the right be any different?
 
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Veritas

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you want to be a teacher? Go rape and molest children.
Oh yes, I can already tell this article is going to provide a salient argument to anything.


I find this stupidly offensive.

Boooo.

But you don't find teacher's molesting students at all offensive. Interesting.

I think everyone can see that's irrelevant.



No.



Because the idea that we should dissolve unions in some bizarre attempt to stop child predators is completely illogical, maybe?



Common sense.

IOW, you have nothing to backup your statements.

Have you ever had a union job? I get the feeling that people who make unions out to be some horrible monstrosities must have never been involved with an actual union. It's simply workplace democracy. Unions allow workers to voice their concerns and remedy them more efficiently and effectively. It insures a give and take between workers and employers rather than the employers simply dictating and the employees being stuck with it.

This might be fine in the private sector, but definitely not in the public sector. Public employees derive ALL of their pay and benefits from the taxpayer, therefore they are their bosses.

It's been documented that just in NYC, public school teachers molest children at a rate of up to 100X that of Catholic priests. And yet, instead of teachers, school districts and the unions being held accountable for such behavior, they are often protected and moved around to other districts. Sound familiar? Many diocese are suffering bankruptcy due to massive lawsuits that have crippled them financially. Where is there a single school district going through that due to child molestation?
 
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keith99

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The specifics of that case may be urban legend but the existance of such "rubber rooms" in the NYC public school system is well documented.

Specifics make all the difference in the world. Once a teacher is accused there is little choice but to take away contact with students. If fired before the accusations are resolved the result is a mutli million dollar wrongfuil termination lawsuit.

The details matter. If it is taking years to resolve that is wrong. The guilty benefit and the innocent are wrongly punished.

But details and facts matter. Stories with made up names and numbers serve only to inflame emotions, not to help people make good decisions, or for that matter even to bring preasure to bear over the right issues.
 
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tulc

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(snip) IOW, you have nothing to backup your statements.
anyone else find this a somewhat ironic statement when followed by this:

It's been documented that just in NYC, public school teachers molest children at a rate of up to 100X that of Catholic priests.
uhmmm? anything to backup this?
tulc(is just a guy who tends to spot irony every now and then) :sorry:
 
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tulc

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Well the left never did get that many of their heros have no integrity so why should the right be any different?

Ahhh! The old "Conservatives aren't to blame, the liberals force them to have no integrity!" defense! An oldy, but a goody! ;)
tulc(sipping cold, but still good, coffee) :)
 
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Ton80

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anyone else find this a somewhat ironic statement when followed by this:


uhmmm? anything to backup this?
tulc(is just a guy who tends to spot irony every now and then) :sorry:

In her defense, she did say it was documented. All he offered was common sense when asked to back up why he thought it was silly. ;)
 
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HerbieHeadley

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Ahhh! The old "Conservatives aren't to blame, the liberals force them to have no integrity!" defense! An oldy, but a goody! ;)
tulc(sipping cold, but still good, coffee) :)
Except for the fact that the original claim about Brietbart was a false assuption or conclusion. Liberals still have no integrity.

How about you prove the claim about Brietbart?

Isn't the claim (actual video) that doctors were handing out 'Doctor's Notes' for the people that decided they would skip work and demand not to have to tighten thier belts, an actual provable fact now?

Brietbart really doesn't belong in this discussion other then Alinsky #5...:wave:
 
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lawtonfogle

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I think this is what Herbie is trying to illustrate, quote:

"He hasn’t set foot in a classroom in seven years since beating criminal and disciplinary charges. Chancellor Joel Klein keeps Olivares in a “rubber room,” a district office where teachers accused of misconduct sit all day with nothing to do."

Do you guys support paying over 94K a year for one guy to sit and do nothing?

If he has committed a crime so bad he is banned from being around children, then he should be fired ASAP.

If he was falsely accused, and because of that can no longer be around kids, the laws should be changed so that only convicted individuals should be banned and he should be reinstated.
 
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chaz345

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Ahhh! The old "Conservatives aren't to blame, the liberals force them to have no integrity!" defense! An oldy, but a goody! ;)
tulc(sipping cold, but still good, coffee) :)

Not at all. I'm simply pointing out the hypocricy of someone from the left attacking based on integrity. The left has more than it's share of Brietbarts, it's just that many of them happen to be in the national media.
 
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