America needs a new religious awakening.

Johnboy60

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Throughout the Jewish high holidays this year, I have been thinking about whether and how the lessons of these days could help America emerge from the current depths of division, anger, distrust, and pessimism we have fallen into.

For me the answer was found in the most visible place: the name of the days between the beginning of Rosh Hashana and the end of Yom Kippur. They are called Ten Days of Repentance. The Hebrew word for repentance is "teshuva." But it has other meanings which are to return, to come home, or to return to God. That is exactly what America needs to do now – return home to our founding values of faith, freedom, and the rule of law.

America needs a new religious awakening
 

Terri Dactyl

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Matthew 24 talks about the world getting worse and worse, and it is. Neither the world, nor the country will turn to Christ. Not everyone is saved. But there are those within the world and in this country who will be saved.

God calls us out of the world Rev 18:4
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Forced religion will not work. You cannot be saved by force, but by love,and acceptance of Jesus Christ through the wooing of the Spirit.
 
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The Barbarian

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That is exactly what America needs to do now – return home to our founding values of faith, freedom, and the rule of law.

That seems to be happening. The denominations with the most marked decline in membership are those which were most politicized. They forgot the Gospels and went for something else.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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While I wish there could be a general spiritual reawakening in not just America but the West as a whole, that does not seem possible given current attitudes, not just by non-believers but by a majority of Christians who need to start reconsidering the relationship between their faith and society. Returning to the values of the past never typically works and if you did, you would probably just wind up back at the point you started. The only path is forward and there are more sources, spiritual and intellectual to look to than just American influences or those of the founders.
 
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The Barbarian

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While I wish there could be a general spiritual reawakening in not just America but the West as a whole

You seem complete unhappy that it's happening. The evidence is that Christians are turning away from "Christian leaders" who have sold out for political power.

And that's a great first step.
 
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Confused-by-christianity

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You seem complete unhappy that it's happening. The evidence is that Christians are turning away from "Christian leaders" who have sold out for political power.

And that's a great first step.
Do you think we are currently in an awakening?
If so, what do you think are indicates we an in an awakening?
 
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The Barbarian

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Do you think we are currently in an awakening?
If so, what do you think are indicates we an in an awakening?

The evidence is that Christians are turning away from "Christian leaders" who have sold out for political power.
 
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Confused-by-christianity

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The evidence is that Christians are turning away from "Christian leaders" who have sold out for political power.
I don't know if we are in an awakening. I hope we are.

I'd like to see:
People think of God as their Father and everyones Father.
This means everyone in all creation is a brother or a sister - family.
Families should create "home" out of a "house".

My words that guide me a lot are: God, Family, Home.
"God" (God is your Father, you are His child - Love God, Love His children)
"Family" (Everyone is part of a big family and God is our Father, we all have the same Father)
"Home" (Make home where ever you find yourself. You're amongst family - make home with them).

I hope to live in a world that is natural, loving and full of fun, and adventure. A life that has more light in it and not so much darkness - but full of invigorating challenge.

People being unwilling to support immoral leaders is a step in the right direction.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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You seem complete unhappy that it's happening. The evidence is that Christians are turning away from "Christian leaders" who have sold out for political power.

And that's a great first step.

The evidence is people are turning away from Christianity to the world and it's values. They prefer the ease of modernity tot eh hardness of Christianity. And Christianity is hard, it make demands of us that the modern world tells us is immoral and bad. Look at America, which says be fat, indulge in your desires, be free to do whatever you wish. Virtue, self restraint and obedience to authority are not something the average American, or westerner is capable of.

We do need proper leaders. But you and I have very different ideas of what a good leader is. Your the kind of person to condemn Theodosius for getting involved in politics. I am not. He was a saint and a good leader willing to call out someone in power with the authority to kill him. We need more Christian leaders willing to take a stand against power and call out politicians like Joe Biden who prefer infant sacrifice to Christ.
 
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The Barbarian

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Look at America, which says be fat, indulge in your desires, be free to do whatever you wish. Virtue, self restraint and obedience to authority are not something the average American, or westerner is capable of.

Hmm... I notice that faith in Western Europe and The Americas seems to be doing much better than in Eastern Europe and Asia (with the exception of Korea).

Self-restraint took a hit as a value with the rise of MAGA, but that's now fading.

Obedience to authority seems to always lead to corruption. Humans can't handle that kind of power.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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Hmm... I notice that faith in Western Europe and The Americas seems to be doing much better than in Eastern Europe and Asia (with the exception of Korea).

Self-restraint took a hit as a value with the rise of MAGA, but that's now fading.

Obedience to authority seems to always lead to corruption. Humans can't handle that kind of power.

Self restraint is something no establishment political party seeks in it's people. Democracy cannot but rely on the impulses of the people in order to endlessly cater to their desires despite not being able to afford it or think in long term time preference. It's not as if Trump was particularly self restrained or that the Republicans became less self restrained, need we forget that before Trump the Republicans were basically free trade and for corporations. Yet there have been attitudes of change in the right. There has been a return to a conservative or right leaning ethos that maybe consumerism is not the end all and be all. That tradition and delayed self gratification matter. This is only a good thing and it is good that the Republicans have moved away from their previous consumerist mentality.

Corruption will always exist because of the necessity of leadership and an elite class. The most you can do is work around it and seek to limit it.
 
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The Barbarian

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Self restraint is something no establishment political party seeks in it's people.

This is what the republican party is, now:
UPDUWSQZTRICFHCT6TNFZD5MBQ.jpg

I don't think that's "establishment."

Democracy cannot but rely on the impulses of the people in order to endlessly cater to their desires despite not being able to afford it or think in long term time preference.

That's what Mussolini said. He was wrong, of course.

Corruption will always exist because of the necessity of leadership and an elite class. The most you can do is work around it and seek to limit it.

We're working on it. It's what Trump is desperately trying to stave off.
 
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The Barbarian

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We do need proper leaders. But you and I have very different ideas of what a good leader is. Your the kind of person to condemn Theodosius for getting involved in politics.

The abiding corruption of medieval Christianity began with establishment. No point in denying the fact.

He was a saint and a good leader willing to call out someone in power with the authority to kill him.

So against political power. I get it.

We need more Christian leaders willing to take a stand against power

It's happening. That's why the denominations that became politicized are bleeding out members. Their former members are moving to denominations that follow God, rather than Caesar. I get that this is alarming for you. But it's what Jesus told us to do.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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The abiding corruption of medieval Christianity began with establishment. No point in denying the fact.

No it began the moment human beings fell, in the garden. There was corruption in the early Church, there was always controversies and issues which needed to be addressed even before Constantine. Paul had to punish a man and expel him from Corinth, he had to advocate against Judaizers and warn Churches not to associate with people. St Peter for all his blessings and position refused to associate at one time with gentiles.

There are also a few Ante Nicene examples I can think of. I believe it was St Cyprian in one of his letters who caught a violation of the rule regarding the sleeping quarters of consecrated virgins. Men and women sleeping in the same room. There was infighting and competition between Churches and Christians had it out for each other sometimes. Look at Origen who was targeted rather relentlessly by the Bishop of Alexandria.

I don't think you understand the history. You have idea in your head that everything became bad immediately after Constantine came about. Things have always been bad to one degree or another. Corruption is not in the idea of the religious sphere holding some kind of power, corruption is the violation of a standard. Was it corrupt for Thomas Becket to excommunicate Henry II? Was it corrupt for Theodosius to make the Emperor publicly repent? Why, when the Church became established, did the most faithful and devout establish monasteries and the corrupted worldly powers decide that the best Bishops would come from those same places?


So against political power. I get it.

You don't really understand power, do you or what you're advocating. You have made abundantly clear elsewhere that the Churches should not be political. They should not concern themselves with politics. Yet you approve of Theodosius calling out the Emperor for his sins and using a spiritual power to leverage an actual political result? For instance, could you approve of the same for Joe Biden? He has been condemned by some Catholic Priests and we were told by the left that this was improper and the Church has no real right to be political.

Like, do you understand that when an Emperor, someone who is regarded as something akin to God's anointed or a divine sovereign, that when he is forced to publicly confess his sins, that it's more than a mere religious act? It challenges the very nature of the Emperor himself. This was actually one of the triumphs of Christianity, that it humbled Emperors, that it limited their power by recognizing power that men could be held to account. This was the early stages of Christian secularism and the limitation of near absolute authority of the Emperors and Kings.



It's happening. That's why the denominations that became politicized are bleeding out members. Their former members are moving to denominations that follow God, rather than Caesar. I get that this is alarming for you. But it's what Jesus told us to do.

I think all denominations will have to bleed their members. The current mindset of most Christians is not one that will sustain future growth, thus I unironically think that is partly good that this bleed is happening. It will purge those Christians who are not strong enough in faith and willing to persevere through a Godless society whose values are radically opposed to Christ's. I believe Christianity can rebound but it cannot be found in the attitudes of most Christians today. The mainstream Churches are not the solution, they are becoming less Christian and if the only way to maintain growth is to that, it's not worth it.
 
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