"America First" caucus "a common respect for uniquely Anglo-Saxon political traditions"

[Ken-1122]

On the contrary, I don't think you were derailing the thread. Nationalism is very surely relevant to this thread topic.

I'm just curious why you suddenly got all shy talking about it after I pointed out that fascists have been using the term globalists for nearly 20 years minimum.

I didn't get shy about it, I even invited you to start a new thread so we can discuss it.

 

[Triumvirate]

I didn't get shy about it, I even invited you to start a new thread so we can discuss it.

sure mate

 

[Ken-1122]

Where's your evidence they have a biased view of it?

This just gets better and better

People involved with the Caucus directly refute what the he said.

 

[Triumvirate]

People involved with the Caucus directly refute what the he said.

Pity, because it's in their manifesto.

Not about to link it though, some of the....'impressionable' minds here might take it seriously, and I'd hate to inadvertently cause them to be led any further astray down the (rather broad) road they're already on.

 

[Ken-1122]

Pity, because it's in their manifesto.

Not about to link it though, some of the....'impressionable' minds here might take it seriously, and I'd hate to inadvertently cause them to be led any further astray down the (rather broad) road they're already on.

It's in their manifesto? Provide evidence or your argument fails.

 

[Triumvirate]

It's in their manifesto? Provide evidence or your argument fails.

It's not that difficult to find. I will not be the one to post such material here, for the reasons I have already stated. There is enough fash-adjacent thinking on this board already.

 

[Ken-1122]

It's not that difficult to find. I will not be the one to post such material here, for the reasons I have already stated. There is enough fash-adjacent thinking on this board already.

According to the article posted in the OP, Congressman Matt Gaetz; a member said

"It's not returning to Anglo-Saxon tradition," the Texas Republican said. "It's not supposed to be about race at all.
IOW your argument has failed.

 

[Triumvirate]

According to the article posted in the OP, Congressman Matt Gaetz; a member said

"It's not returning to Anglo-Saxon tradition," the Texas Republican said. "It's not supposed to be about race at all.
IOW your argument has failed.

It hasn't. Gaetz's sharp retreat away from the manifesto (a bit out of character for him, given that it's well under 18 years old) is hardly the only thing reported in that article.

I just don't particular feel like handing nationalist material to a self-admitted nationalist. If you were a bit more capable of handling the content, I might. Don't feel too bad though, a lot of the Christians (and depressingly, some of the atheists) here can't.

 

[Ken-1122]

It hasn't. Gaetz's sharp retreat away from the manifesto (a bit out of character for him, given that it's well under 18 years old) is hardly the only thing reported in that article.

I just don't particular feel like handing nationalist material to a self-admitted nationalist. If you were a bit more capable of handling the content, I might. Don't feel too bad though, a lot of the Christians (and depressingly, some of the atheists) here can't.

So you are refusing to provide evidence to support your claim for fear of hurting my feelings? (LOL) Then your argument fails.

 

[Triumvirate]

So you are refusing to provide evidence to support your claim for fear of hurting my feelings? (LOL) Then your argument fails.

No, it's hardly a matter of hurt feelings.

It's more a matter that I think anyone claiming to be a nationalist is dangerous, and shouldn't be encouraged.

And whether a nationalist thinks an argument has failed isn't really relevant. They have already demonstrated they are not great at thinking by affiliating as such.

 

[Ken-1122]

No, it's hardly a matter of hurt feelings.

It's more a matter that I think anyone claiming to be a nationalist is dangerous, and shouldn't be encouraged.

And whether a nationalist thinks an argument has failed isn't really relevant. They have already demonstrated they are not great at thinking by affiliating as such.

Tap-out bruh; you lose!

 

[Triumvirate]

Tap-out bruh; you lose!

Oh noes, a nationalist who can't google (or is so scared of being wrong they won't google) thinks I've lost an argument. I am undone, whatever shall I do

You see my dear boy, I win anyway by not being so foolish as to be a nationalist

 

[Occams Barber]

According to the article posted in the OP, Congressman Matt Gaetz; a member said

"It's not returning to Anglo-Saxon tradition," the Texas Republican said. "It's not supposed to be about race at all.
IOW your argument has failed.

The OPs article also included two quotes said to be from the platform. This is from the article:

The platform promotes "a common respect for uniquely Anglo-Saxon political traditions" and advocates for infrastructure with aesthetic value that "befits the progeny of European architecture," Punchbowl News reported on Friday.
​

Both the Anglo Saxon and European references are recognised code for 'white'. These are a couple of the reasons why a number of Conservatives have criticised the policy as blatantly white supremacist.

If you look at Gaetz statement, which you quoted (above), you'll notice that it doesn't actually deny the mention of Anglo Saxon. He says" Its not returning to Anglo Saxo tradition". Nor does he deny the racial overtones. His words are "It's not supposed to be about race at all".

Gaetz is not denying what was said - he's denying what it means.

OB

 

[Hans Blaster]

Well, fascism certainly is pretty uniquely Anglo-Saxon.

Not really. The first wave fascist movements all came from the Catholic far right (Italy, Spain, Germany) and have nothing to do with "Anglo-Saxon" anything.

Anglo-Saxon is a term I've heard often from the English (and to a lesser extent the British as a whole) to describe their heritage.

A phrase like "preserving America's Anglo-Saxon heritage" sounds like it could have been uttered at a meeting of the Know-Nothings as they "discussed" the mid-19th century wave of non-Anglo-Saxon (and often non-protestant) immigrants then arriving: Irish, Germans, Scandinavians.

Are "Anglo-Saxons" even half of the *white* people in the US? Have they been so at *any* point in the last century? I don't think so.

 

[Triumvirate]

Not really. The first wave fascist movements all came from the Catholic far right (Italy, Spain, Germany) and have nothing to do with "Anglo-Saxon" anything.

Anglo-Saxon is a term I've heard often from the English (and to a lesser extent the British as a whole) to describe their heritage.

A phrase like "preserving America's Anglo-Saxon" heritage sounds like it could have been uttered at a meeting of the Know-Nothings as they "discussed" the mid-19th century wave of non-Anglo-Saxon (and often non-protestant) immigrants then arriving: Irish, Germans, Scandinavians.

Are "Anglo-Saxons" even half of the *white* people in the US? Have they been so at *any* point in the last century? I don't think so.

As I said a couple of times further on - it's about as 'anglo saxon' as anything these clowns claim is 'anglo saxon'. Why not attribute that to them too, if they're going to be that silly about it, not least given what a dogwhistle it is?

Beyond that, it was a throwaway remark, sorry to have wasted your time in writing a detailed response. I was literally thinking of Ba'athism when I wrote the gag ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Occams Barber]

Not really. The first wave fascist movements all came from the Catholic far right (Italy, Spain, Germany) and have nothing to do with "Anglo-Saxon" anything.

Anglo-Saxon is a term I've heard often from the English (and to a lesser extent the British as a whole) to describe their heritage.

A phrase like "preserving America's Anglo-Saxon heritage" sounds like it could have been uttered at a meeting of the Know-Nothings as they "discussed" the mid-19th century wave of non-Anglo-Saxon (and often non-protestant) immigrants then arriving: Irish, Germans, Scandinavians.

Are "Anglo-Saxons" even half of the *white* people in the US? Have they been so at *any* point in the last century? I don't think so.

Anglo Saxon is a term describing the origin and (to a lesser extent) the culture, of the tribes who invaded Britain in the second half of the 5th century. The tribes were a mix of Germanic groups including Angles, Saxons, Jutes and Friesians. Anglo Saxon is basically an ethnic description. Compare this to 'British' which describes a nationality.

In the context of racial labelling it has often been wrongly used to broadly denote people of white Caucasian origin. WASP - White Anglo Saxon Protestant, is a classic description relating to white supremacy. In the case of the America First platform, Anglo Saxon is used to suggest whiteness and combines whiteness with the concept of British political heritage.

"a common respect for uniquely Anglo-Saxon political traditions"
​

Historically the concept of Anglo Saxon faded out to be replaced by 'English' (derived from Angle-ish = from Angle-land).

The political traditions mentioned date from after the Norman Conquest in 1066 and are English (later British) in origin - not Anglo Saxon.

This Google search provides a number of references to Anglo Saxon (mis)used as code for 'white'.
anglo saxon as code for white - Google Search

OB

 

[mark46]

Hence my question; why are they judging it racist?

Nobody is talking about populism, we’re talking about the idea of “America first”.

Everything has a history; I’m not talking about history, I’m talking about today! Why would somebody today consider “America first” to be racist?

America First was a movement in the past. You want us to ignore that. OK.

America First was a primary part of Trump's platform from 2015 through the present day. Since Trump is no longer president, his followers have formed an America First organization. The key elements of the idea have been posted.

I guess we could debate whether the members and the platform are racist. I really don't think that there is any question.

 

[Larniavc]

This is getting very strange. Americans who are white are supposedly all supremacists and history supposedly proves it. But then again, the demand has been to take account of the non-Anglo-Saxons who have made contributions to our culture...even if those contributions are by definition white supremacy. It sounds very much like this is a contention that doesn't really bother with the details. Claim them when it helps, ignore them when it doesn't.

I’m sure you do find it strange. The very fact that you talk about ‘contributions to our culture’ shows so very clearly that you think of white people as a homogenous group separate from the non white that is being forced to acknowledge the other people who live in America.

Hoist by you own petard.

 

[TLK Valentine]

This has nothing to do with the conversation.

It kind of has everything to do with it.

You mean like how the KKK used the American flag during their rallies? Do you have a problem with the American flag now?

I'd have a problem with the name "KKK." Wouldn't you?

So was the original Democratic party. Is that the game you wanna play?

The Democrat party repented on their racist past... and the ones who didn't switched to Republicans.

Sad that you see this as nothing but a "game."

Do they make that assumption concerning the Democratic party?

The Democrat party has had generations to atone for its sins... But maybe this forum isn't the place to talk about atonement.

If that were true, the idea of “America first” would not be made into a pejorative.

You might want to read posts in their entirety, and not just the parts you quote... plenty of people out there think white supremacy would be best for America.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Trump used it a couple years ago; I would hardly call that history.

You do realize that there was history before Donald, right? He is most certainly not the Alpha and Omega.