America a post-Christian nation

[GregConstantine]

The US government doesn't care in the slightest about American Orthodox.

Lol! I love these comments about how the US government is in this conspiracy against Orthodoxy. That makes me laugh so hard. First of all, they barely know we even exists, secondly, to believe in such conspiracies is to attribute a high level of competency to the government that quite frankly, just isn't there.

 

[dzheremi]

This is why I dont want to see an american patriarch because all he would be is a paid agent of the CIA, the same way the the so called "Kievan patriarch" and the Dalai Lama are on CIA payrolls. Such 5th column saboteurs have been at work since the 17th century, how do you think there were able to divide the Syrian church between syriac miaphysite uniates and antiochan melkite uniates.

I'm aware of the Catholic unia made out of your church (and mine) around that time, but what union between EO Syrian Greeks and OO Syriacs happened at that time? Or am I misreading you?

Just curious, because that'd be news to me. HH Moran Mor Ignatius Aphram I Barsoum's History of the Syriac Dioceses (published in 2006 in translation by Syriac scholar Matti Moosa) covers the major events and personalities of the 17th and 18th centuries, but to the best of my recollection does not mention any EO Syrians coming into union with us (which I would have to believe it would, since it mentions the creation of the Roman Catholic uniate Syriac churches in the ME and India at that time). Is this recorded in EO sources?

 

[buzuxi02]

No, im refering to the 5th column in the form of the latin Propaganda Fide established in 1622. Known as the "sacred

Lol! I love these comments about how the US government is in this conspiracy against Orthodoxy. That makes me laugh so hard. First of all, they barely know we even exists, secondly, to believe in such conspiracies is to attribute a high level of competency to the government that quite frankly, just isn't there.

Not true, and it doesnt have to be the American government it can be any, but America is now the superpower that can (and has used its influenced for politcal reasons, think election of Athenagoras).
Does the U.S. care about Orthodoxy? They sure do when propaganda is needed to demonize us like during the Serbian campaign and now the Russian situation.

Everyone knows it happened under the Soviets as they co-opted the church. And in the early 1900's when the Ottomon empire was disintegrating the british government influenced the EP by securing the deposed Meletios in that position (no evidence that he was canonically elected by the synod, seems that Met Germanos of Kastoria was elected)
The same with the naturalized U.S. citizen Athenagoras that replaced Patriarch Maximos V (Vaportzis) who resigned under western pressure not illness. Athenagoras was personally flown to Constantinople on Truman's presidential plane .

There was quite a bit of recruiting in decades past inside GOARCH churches in NYC (think George Tenet), its not even much of a secret. So yes it does exist. But you do not even need direct control. You already have the the 5th columnists in the form of groups like the OCL . You have media outlets such as the Pappas Post, run by an influential homosexual greek journalist who runs articles that should only be a matter between him, his bishop and spiritual father like this:
Just Another Day at Church- When I Was "Pre-Warned" to Never Approach the Chalice for Holy Communion - The Pappas Post

And like this:
An Open Letter to the Parish Council and Community of Holy Trinity Greek Orthodox Church in Pittsburgh - The Pappas Post

And somehow this open letter (a letter which should only be private correspondence with his the bishop) he publishes, but not only that. This same journalist was then able to publish his grievances (in what should have been a miniscule internal pastoral matter) in the pages of the most influential newspaper in America, the Washington Post. Why would the Washington Post even care to publish such a thing? And why did this influential journalist feel the need to go to the WP and publish his nonsense?:

I was denied communion because I am gay - The Washington Post

In other words these same kind of people are in the clergy and in the laity and can be activated anytime they want. Even the coptic church felt this 5th column, subversives who come out of America (think Archbishop Maximus Max Michel)

 

[buzuxi02]

I'm aware of the Catholic unia made out of your church (and mine) around that time, but what union between EO Syrian Greeks and OO Syriacs happened at that time? Or am I misreading you?

Just curious, because that'd be news to me. HH Moran Mor Ignatius Aphram I Barsoum's History of the Syriac Dioceses (published in 2006 in translation by Syriac scholar Matti Moosa) covers the major events and personalities of the 17th and 18th centuries, but to the best of my recollection does not mention any EO Syrians coming into union with us (which I would have to believe it would, since it mentions the creation of the Roman Catholic uniate Syriac churches in the ME and India at that time). Is this recorded in EO sources?

No I mean that both churches were hoodwinked by the "Sacred Congregation of the Propaganda of the Faith"(aka Progaganda Fide) created in 1622 by Rome. They were a 5th column posing as friends of syrian christians looking to "educate the clergy" and help the poor syrian laity. The RC monks embedding themselves in these christian communities, teaching latin dogma under the guise of Orthodoxy, they published Orthodox books in the west (with a few latin interpolations) to replace the torn up books, they sent clergy to be educated (indoctrinated) in western seminaries and finally causing them to schism

 

[dzheremi]

Ah. I see now what you meant. Thank you for explaining.

 

[Orthodoxjay1]

No, im refering to the 5th column in the form of the latin Propaganda Fide established in 1622. Known as the "sacred


Not true, and it doesnt have to be the American government it can be any, but America is now the superpower that can (and has used its influenced for politcal reasons, think election of Athenagoras).
Does the U.S. care about Orthodoxy? They sure do when propaganda is needed to demonize us like during the Serbian campaign and now the Russian situation.

Everyone knows it happened under the Soviets as they co-opted the church. And in the early 1900's when the Ottomon empire was disintegrating the british government influenced the EP by securing the deposed Meletios in that position (no evidence that he was canonically elected by the synod, seems that Met Germanos of Kastoria was elected)
The same with the naturalized U.S. citizen Athenagoras that replaced Patriarch Maximos V (Vaportzis) who resigned under western pressure not illness. Athenagoras was personally flown to Constantinople on Truman's presidential plane .

There was quite a bit of recruiting in decades past inside GOARCH churches in NYC (think George Tenet), its not even much of a secret. So yes it does exist. But you do not even need direct control. You already have the the 5th columnists in the form of groups like the OCL . You have media outlets such as the Pappas Post, run by an influential homosexual greek journalist who runs articles that should only be a matter between him, his bishop and spiritual father like this:
Just Another Day at Church- When I Was "Pre-Warned" to Never Approach the Chalice for Holy Communion - The Pappas Post

And like this:
An Open Letter to the Parish Council and Community of Holy Trinity Greek Orthodox Church in Pittsburgh - The Pappas Post

And somehow this open letter (a letter which should only be private correspondence with his the bishop) he publishes, but not only that. This same journalist was then able to publish his grievances (in what should have been a miniscule internal pastoral matter) in the pages of the most influential newspaper in America, the Washington Post. Why would the Washington Post even care to publish such a thing? And why did this influential journalist feel the need to go to the WP and publish his nonsense?:

I was denied communion because I am gay - The Washington Post

In other words these same kind of people are in the clergy and in the laity and can be activated anytime they want. Even the coptic church felt this 5th column, subversives who come out of America (think Archbishop Maximus Max Michel)

Thanks for the info, no offense I was going to pass you as a conspiracy theroist, however I apologize for being judgemental. I'm just getting over having a nasty cold, and after reading Pappas Post garbage in the Washington Post is going to get me sick again, from getting so worked up! Anger is a sin but that article [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ed me off so bad, so because a church stick to scripture & tradition "it is now being hijacked by fundamentalists", the word fundamentalism has lost all meaning! I go to a GOARCH church, the priest at my church seems to stick to his guns on Tradition, however if this kind of sodomite propaganda is ever allowed in my church I will happily go back to the ROCOR parish, despite the laity being standoffish to me because atleast they don't budge on changing much. Sorry folks that article rubbed me the wrong way. We must protect our Orthodox Church from this infiltration unless we become like the ELCA Lutherans or the ECUSA.

 

[All4Christ]

Thanks for the info, no offense I was going to pass you as a conspiracy theroist, however I apologize for being judgemental. I'm just getting over having a nasty cold, and after reading Pappas Post garbage in the Washington Post is going to get me sick again, from getting so worked up! Anger is a sin but that article [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] me off so bad, so because a church stick to scripture & tradition "it is now being hijacked by fundamentalists", the word fundamentalism has lost all meaning! I go to a GOARCH church, the priest at my church seems to stick to his guns on Tradition, however if this kind of sodomite propaganda is ever allowed in my church I will happily go back to the ROCOR parish, despite the laity being standoffish to me because atleast they don't budge on changing much. Sorry folks that article rubbed me the wrong way. We must protect our Orthodox Church from this infiltration unless we become like the ELCA Lutherans or the ECUSA.

The thing that frustrated me more than his post was the vast support he got in the comments from other people who claim to be Orthodox Christians (I echo your sentiments for myself - [do not judge], [do not judge]...). Kudos to the priest who stood up for what the church teaches and for being kind enough to point it out before he approved the chalice!

 

[Orthodoxjay1]

The thing that frustrated me more than his post was the vast support he got in the comments from other people who claim to be Orthodox Christians (I echo your sentiments for myself - [do not judge], [do not judge]...). Kudos to the priest who stood up for what the church teaches and for being kind enough to point it out before he approved the chalice!

Yes kudos to the priest, to be honest the priest might of saved this guy life. Holy Communion no joke, I have heard stories of bad things happening to those who recieve Communion in a a state of un-repented sin. I think what disturbed me the most is this pappas post claiming other priests and heirarchs support him, and was willing to offer him communion. It seems sadly there a faction of the Church (hopefully small) who want to "modernize to fit in with the times".

 

[buzuxi02]

Unfortunately these people are all over using whatever methods they can to undermine the faith.. I first realized this demonic phenomenon way back when Archbishop Spyridon resigned. Long editorials were being written up in the Greek-American National Herald ( one of the bigger greek-english newspapers). These editorials were giving their opinions on which direction the Church should go. The word "gospel" was never mentioned and the name "Jesus Christ" was only uttered like twice! These articles were all about influencing politicians and promoting greek businesses sort of like a lobby similiar to AIPAC . These people are found from the highest levels to the lowest levels.

Over the course of 10 years of me being on TAW (and other Orthodox forums) many of them have come in impersonating being an Orthodox christian attempting to convince people of heterodox practises. So every now and then you will catch one strolling in here with an agenda.

 

[GregConstantine]

Sung to the tune of "Royals" by Lorde:

"Oh, by the way, I've cracked the code
I've figured out these shadow organizations
And the Illuminati know
That they're finally primed for world domination


And soon you've got black helicopters coming 'cross the border
Puppet masters for the New World Order
Be aware: there's always someone that's watching you
And still the government won't admit they faked the whole moon landing
Thought control rays, psychotronic scanning
Don't mind that, I'm protected cause I made this hat


From aluminum foil (foil)
Wear a hat that's foil lined
In case an alien's inclined
To probe your butt or read your mind
Looks a bit peculiar ('culiar)
Seems a little crazy
But someday I'll prove (I'll prove, I'll prove, I'll prove)
There's a big conspiracy"

 

[buzuxi02]

Greg weren't you the one complaining about Archbishop Lazar Puhalo about certain heretical teachings he had posted on facebook?

 

[GregConstantine]

what does that have to do with what we are talking about? I'm not seeing the connection.

 

[GregConstantine]

Perhaps you are thinking that because I'm dismissing your claims that the US government is out to get us Orthodox, that I'm dismissing all or any conspiracies? No, that's simply not true.

 

[gzt]

retired Archbishop Lev and the Greek businessmen aren't a conspiracy, they're well understood and above the board, as it were. One needn't think about the government to explain either phenomenon.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Greg weren't you the one complaining about Archbishop Lazar Puhalo about certain heretical teachings he had posted on facebook?

Depending on what you mean by "complaining" ... that could have been me. But I don't actually remember posting about it. I could have though.

 

[E.C.]

It looks like we already are around for it. The world is currently flooded with evil. It's just that in the West the devil has chosen to act primarily in a hidden way by deceiving people with lies while in the East he is primarily showing his violent side openly. But it's two sides of the same coin. A lot of people in the West are on the road to Hell and don't know it or don't care because the devil is making himself appear as an angel of light. Actually, if abortion (infanticide) is taken into consideration, the West is just as barbaric as the East if not more so. And in the West, modern/postmodern philosophy denies that truth/reality even exists. In today's world, it is said on television that "sin is in"; evil is called good and good called evil. And lies are endorsed and enforced by the most powerful government on earth which works aggressively to spread its errors to the whole world.

Perhaps we are. Really we have been living the End Times since the day of Pentecost, but whether we're any closer to the Second Coming, or not, is anyone's guess. Best not to worry, in my opinion, since Christ did say that only the Father knows.

Your probably thinking of me. But not in the context your thinking.
What im saying is the U.S. government already has in place 5th column agents/subversives/provacative saboteurs, within the ranks of the clergy and laity to turn on the Church and throw it under the bus.
This is why I dont want to see an american patriarch because all he would be is a paid agent of the CIA, the same way the the so called "Kievan patriarch" and the Dalai Lama are on CIA payrolls. Such 5th column saboteurs have been at work since the 17th century, how do you think there were able to divide the Syrian church between syriac miaphysite uniates and antiochan melkite uniates.

Did you ever consider that such schisms are the result of our fallen human nature? The CIA didn't even exist until the 1950s! You're starting to remind me of my one Syrian teacher who even after watching the video from ISIS proclaiming a caliphate could only say, "no, that's just a lie from the Assad government to manipulate Americans".

Or how about Ukraine. Let's take a look there for a moment. Seventy-three years of militant atheist persecution, manufactured famine, and the systematic destruction of religion, all at the hands of Russians mind you, would not result in the Ukrainian people desperately wishing to remain under the Moscow Patriarch. I'd be surprised if there wasn't a breakaway patriarchate, whose existence is fueled by ethnic nationalism, after all that! Wrong and schismatic the "Kievan patriarch"'s very existence is you can not blame them for forming just to not be under Russian rule for a change.

And for all those problems you mentioned regarding the GOARCH in New York City, maybe if the overall Greek community there focused on their spiritual life as much as they fed this apparent last of power we would not have people who believe that crying to a newspaper will solve all their problems. And since this is coming from New York City I can not say that I'm surprised because almost every New Yorker whom I've met has behaved with such a cry baby attitude.

As for Patriarch Athenagoras, he was flown to Constantinople by President Truman because the Turkish government was not going to allow him into the country at all which probably would have resulted in the patriarchate not being able to operate in the city. President Truman flew the patriarch in to Constantinople to force the Turks to allow the dwindling Orthodox population of Turkey to continue to exist for another few decades.

As I have always said, any problems that ALL Orthodox Christians in North America have when "Orthodox" people do not act as such is purely of our own doing. We have earned all of our problems. Siting on this forum and complaining about them does nothing when we should be working to fix them.

The US government doesn't care in the slightest about American Orthodox.

True that

 

[buzuxi02]

Did you ever consider that such schisms are the result of our fallen human nature? The CIA didn't even exist until the 1950s! You're starting to remind me of my one Syrian teacher who even after watching the video from ISIS proclaiming a caliphate could only say, "no, that's just a lie from the Assad government to manipulate Americans".

Or how about Ukraine. Let's take a look there for a moment. Seventy-three years of militant atheist persecution, manufactured famine, and the systematic destruction of religion, all at the hands of Russians mind you, would not result in the Ukrainian people desperately wishing to remain under the Moscow Patriarch. I'd be surprised if there wasn't a breakaway patriarchate, whose existence is fueled by ethnic nationalism, after all that! Wrong and schismatic the "Kievan patriarch"'s very existence is you can not blame them for forming just to not be under Russian rule for a change.

And for all those problems you mentioned regarding the GOARCH in New York City, maybe if the overall Greek community there focused on their spiritual life as much as they fed this apparent last of power we would not have people who believe that crying to a newspaper will solve all their problems. And since this is coming from New York City I can not say that I'm surprised because almost every New Yorker whom I've met has behaved with such a cry baby attitude.

As for Patriarch Athenagoras, he was flown to Constantinople by President Truman because the Turkish government was not going to allow him into the country at all which probably would have resulted in the patriarchate not being able to operate in the city. President Truman flew the patriarch in to Constantinople to force the Turks to allow the dwindling Orthodox population of Turkey to continue to exist for another few decades.

As I have always said, any problems that ALL Orthodox Christians in North America have when "Orthodox" people do not act as such is purely of our own doing. We have earned all of our problems. Siting on this forum and complaining about them does nothing when we should be working to fix them.


True that

The entire Greek secret service was created and funded by the CIA for at least a decade since it's inception. The CIA has always been full of greeks. George Tenet former director of CIA was not recruited out of college but at St Demetrios in Jamaica Queens.

Now the greeks should indeed concentrate on their spiritual lives, unfortunately the secular greeks undermine them and the church by calling them fundamentalists.

Athenagoras was a joke he caused the Orthodox population to dwindle. It went from 60,000 to less than 10,000 during his rule. So much for his US citizenship and free mason connections, he was too busy with ecumenism.

 

[ArmyMatt]

However, I don't believe that it will be a long time away. What I mean by that is I believe that maybe it could happen within my lifetime or perhaps not long after my death.

and that is fair, and at the latest it will be your death when you meet Christ face to face (myself as well)

 

[buzuxi02]

I don't think Christ's return will occur in my lifetime. First the gospel must be preached to all nations and that hasn't happened in the most populous areas of Asia. And things can and will get worse. We haven't even introduced marriages with expiration dates yet. Let alone genetically modified babies, sleeping with artificially intelligent sex robots. War drones that can kill from outerspace, head transplants, microchips implanted in the brains etc.

My concern is the fast erosion of the faith. People that used to instruct their children to marry in the Church, no longer care. It's either civil marriages are the same or its OK because the Jewish or Buddhist is a doctor.

My grandparents generation who would tell their relatives "May Jesus and the Panayia be with you" before they left the house or went on a journey, is now extinct replaced with good bye. Holy Week has now been replaced with spring recess where people go on a vacation to the bahamas, etc. Fasting is being replaced with 'don't curse as much' it what comes out of your mouth that matters. Getting pregnant before marriage is no biggie anymore because guys who sowed their oats in college now don't mind marrying them. After all after 20-30 women you get numb to the idea of having "your own wife".

 

[GregConstantine]

"goodbye" is from the Old English way of saying "God be with you". So "Goodbye" is certainly very appropriate thing to say. The Romance languages have their counterparts in the way they say "goodbye". Adios, Adieu, Adio, all mean "To God" and "Vaya con Dios" means, "God go with you."