AMAZING FUN FACTS ON GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT AND SUNDAY WORSHIP!

[Danthemailman]

What a shame some have to reinterpret what is so plainly written by Paul in 2Cor3. Paul here is explaining that the ministry of death, ten commandments, WERE glorious. Now, since the ten commandments WERE transitory, temporary, we now have been given the Holy Spirit…

It’s a shame indeed brother. The law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the law of the letter. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit and not of the letter. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

 

[Leaf473]

It’s a shame indeed brother. The law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the law of the letter. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit and not of the letter. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Yes, I think that's an interesting fact, as well. Christians perceive the law of God written on their hearts, but not the letters of the law.

If someone does believe letters are written on their heart, questions I ask are
What language are they written in?
What version or translation?

Those aren't intended as mocking questions. They just sound absurd, I think, because no one actually thinks they have letters written on their heart.

What we perceive is the deeper meaning of the law written on our heart imo.

 

[Bob S]

Yes, I think that's an interesting fact, as well. Christians perceive the law of God written on their hearts, but not the letters of the law.

If someone does believe letters are written on their heart, questions I ask are
What language are they written in?
What version or translation?

Those aren't intended as mocking questions. They just sound absurd, I think, because no one actually thinks they have letters written on their heart.

What we perceive is the deeper meaning of the law written on our heart imo.

Hi Leaf, the question I keep asking Sabbath observers and the answers I get are the ten commandments. When you write that it is the law that is written on our hearts can you tell us in more specific terms what commands you believe are included in "The Law"?

Jesus was healing the man at the pool and the Jewish leaders approached Him questioning what He was doing. Jesus response was: 41 “I do not accept glory from human beings, 42 but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts. 43 I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him.

We know that, according to Jesus, we are supposed to have love in our hearts. Love is the great theme in the New Testament. Paul in his letter to the Corinthians wrote:
13 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

I can testify that I feel love for God and man. What I have never felt is the need to keep the Sabbath day, given only to Israel in the ten commandments, Holy. I was persuaded by others to observe the Seventh-day Sabbath, but it never felt like it came from the heart. Would it be wrong to look at the billions of God's children that have lived or are living to see if they had that prodding in their hearts to observe the Seventh-day Sabbath? If they did it was not publicly displayed now was it?

 

[klutedavid]

Two covenants. The Old and the New. When did the second one, the New one become available?

There is mention of another Covenant being made with God’s people prior to them entering into the promised land in Deut 29:1.

What is it? Is it the new? Yes!

How do we know? Because Deut. 30 tells us what this New Covenant is. That God will circumcise our hearts and the hearts of our seed to love him with all our hearts and all our souls in verse 6. Then in verse 14 He tells how. He says His word, His commandments and statutes are nigh to us. In our hearts and in our mouths that we may do them.
When He says that God’s commandments and statutes which are written in the book of the law are nigh to us; in our hearts and in our mouths that we may do them. He is telling us which Commandments Jeremiah was referring to when prophesied again of the New due to God’s people constantly backsliding and refusing to accept the Lord’s true circumcision, the New Covenant . When He says He will put His Laws in our hearts and minds God is referring to those commandments and statutes written in the the book of the Law as described in Deut 30 when the New Covenant was first given prior to God’s people entering into the promise land. Interestingly enough God again repeats both of these instances of the New Covenant being given from Deut 30 and Jeremiah 31:33 in Romans 10:6-8 and Hebrews 8:10 so there should not be any confusion.

Deuteronomy 29:1 These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.
Deuteronomy 29:9 Keep therefore the words of this covenant, and do them, that ye may prosper in all that ye do.
Deuteronomy 29:12 That thou shouldest enter into covenant with the LORD thy God, and into his oath, which the LORD thy God maketh with thee this day:
Deuteronomy 29:13 That he may establish thee to day for a people unto himself, and that he may be unto thee a God, as he hath said unto thee, and as he hath sworn unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob.
Deuteronomy 29:14 Neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath;
Deuteronomy 29:15 But with him that standeth here with us this day before the LORD our God, and also with him that is not here with us this day:
Deuteronomy 29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.


Deuteronomy 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
Deuteronomy 30:10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
Deuteronomy 30:11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
Deuteronomy 30:12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deuteronomy 30:13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deuteronomy 30:14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

The law was the shadow, the old covenant, the Old Testament.

Then the messiah arrived as the prophecies predicted. The messiah fulfilled those demands of the old covenant law. A perfect sacrifice, a perfect atonement, accomplished in a perfect and unconditional love for humanity.

We know, without any doubt, that when Jesus died and rose on the third day (1 Corinthians 15). That we were in a new covenant, a covenant of grace, we were, in fact, a new creation. The condemnation of the law and the terror of death, had lost it's power.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if anyone is in Christ, this person is a new creation; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

 

[Leaf473]

Hi Leaf, the question I keep asking Sabbath observers and the answers I get are the ten commandments. When you write that it is the law that is written on our hearts can you tell us in more specific terms what commands you believe are included in "The Law"?

Jesus was healing the man at the pool and the Jewish leaders approached Him questioning what He was doing. Jesus response was: 41 “I do not accept glory from human beings, 42 but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts. 43 I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him.

We know that, according to Jesus, we are supposed to have love in our hearts. Love is the great theme in the New Testament. Paul in his letter to the Corinthians wrote:
13 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

I can testify that I feel love for God and man. What I have never felt is the need to keep the Sabbath day, given only to Israel in the ten commandments, Holy. I was persuaded by others to observe the Seventh-day Sabbath, but it never felt like it came from the heart. Would it be wrong to look at the billions of God's children that have lived or are living to see if they had that prodding in their hearts to observe the Seventh-day Sabbath? If they did it was not publicly displayed now was it?

Hi Bob S,

I think the law of God that is written on our hearts is something like love others as Jesus loved us.

I can't put it into exact words, it's more like a direction or a lifestyle.

I know that someone may say You can't love without following the ten commandments. To that I ask Are the same letters that were carved into the stone written on our hearts? If not those same letters, which letters?

As you talk about, if the fourth commandment is written on the hearts of Christians, why don't more people practice it? If the answer is They have been deceived in some way, I ask Then what is the purpose of writing something on a person's heart if they can be deceived about it?

My impression is that when something is written on your heart, you know it at a gut level. I can choose not to follow it, just like I can choose not to love. But I can't be deceived about what's written there.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

It’s a shame indeed brother. The law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the law of the letter. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit and not of the letter. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

According to the scriptures the Spirit of the law is not separate from the letter of the law. It is the letter of the law that leads us to the Spirit of the law as we receive the letter of the law through faith. Gods' Spirit is not separate from Gods' Word but works through Gods' Word as we believe and follow what Gods' Word says. If we do walk in the Spirit of the law we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

John 6:63 [63], It is the spirit that quickens; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

John 17:17 [17], Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Romans 10:17 [17], So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Romans 3:31 [31], Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

...............

May you receive Gods Word and be blessed

 

[LoveGodsWord]

What a shame some have to reinterpret what is so plainly written by Paul in 2Cor3. Paul here is explaining that the ministry of death, ten commandments, WERE glorious. Now, since the ten commandments WERE transitory, temporary, we now have been given the Holy Spirit. He goes on to praise the Holy Spirit as being more glorious than the ten commandments WERE. We know from other scripture that Jesus gift of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost is to dwell in us as our guide. God gave Israel the ten commandments as their guide just as Jesus has given all mankind the Holy Spirit. How beautiful is the real truth Paul gave us in those verses and how sad that some try to mask away such a beautiful gift and keep us under guidance of the ministry of death. Those who tell we have to "keep" the ten commandments or we are lawless are telling a horrible lie. I contend that those who propagate such a lie are themselves living under the false pretense that they are "keeping" the defunct ten commandments. All of us are sinners and no one is able to keep them, that is why Paul labeled them the ministry of death.

We should be careful to believe and follow what the scriptures actually believe and say and not seek to read into the scripture what they do not say. According to the scriptures it is the ministration of condemnation and death that is done away through God's forgiveness, mercy and grace, not Gods' 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken in the new covenant *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4. According to the scriptures 2 Corinthians 3 is not Gods 10 commandments becoming obsolete it is the ministration of condemnation and death that is replaced by the ministration of the Spirit that brings life and peace through Gods’ forgiveness and faith in Christ.

Lets look at the scriptures.

2 CORINTHIANS 3:3-18
[3], For as much as YOU ARE MANIFESTLY DECLARED TO BE THE LETTER OF CHRIST MINISTERED BY US, WRITTEN NOT WITH INK, BUT WITH THE SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD; NOT IN TABLES OF STONE, BUT IN FLESHY TABLES OF THE HEART.
[4], And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
[5], Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
[6], WHO ALSO HAS MADE US ABLE MINISTERS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT; NOT OF THE LETTER, BUT OF THE SPIRIT: FOR THE LETTER KILLS, BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE.
[7], BUT IF THE MINISTRATION OF DEATH, WRITTEN AND ENGRAVED IN STONES, WAS GLORIOUS, SO THAT THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL COULD NOT STEADFASTLY BEHOLD THE FACE OF MOSES FOR THE GLORY OF HIS COUNTENANCE; WHICH GLORY WAS TO BE DONE AWAY:
[8], HOW SHALL NOT THE MINISTRATION OF THE SPIRIT BE RATHER GLORIOUS?
[9], FOR IF THE MINISTRATION OF CONDEMNATION be glory, much more does the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
[10], For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excels.
[11], FOR IF THAT WHICH IS DONE AWAY WAS GLORIOUS, MUCH MORE THAT WHICH REMAINS IS GLORIOUS.
[12], Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
[13], AND NOT AS MOSES, WHICH PUT A VEIL OVER HIS FACE, THAT THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL COULD NOT STEADFASTLY LOOK TO THE END OF THAT WHICH IS ABOLISHED:
[14], BUT THEIR MINDS WERE BLINDED: FOR UNTIL THIS DAY REMAINS THE SAME VEIL NOT TAKEN AWAY IN THE READING OF THE OLD TESTAMENT; WHICH VEIL IS DONE AWAY IN CHRIST.
[15], But even to this day, when Moses is read, the veil is on their heart.
[16], NEVERTHELESS WHEN IT SHALL TURN TO THE LORD, THE VEIL SHALL BE TAKEN AWAY.
[17], Now THE LORD IS THAT SPIRIT: AND WHERE THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS, THERE IS LIBERTY.
[18], But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the LORD.

.....................

It is the ministration of condemnation and death by the letter that is done away by the ministration of the Spirit through God's mercy, grace and forgiveness through faith that works by love in fulfillment of Gods' new covenant promise (Hebrews 8:10-12; from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27) that is done away not God's 10 commandments. All God's 10 commandments do under the new covenant is to give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (moral right doing) *Romans 3:20: Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172.

An interpretation that 2 Corinthians 3 is talking about abolishing Gods' 10 commandments has Paul in contradiction to Paul when he says in Romans 3:31 that faith does not abolish Gods' law it establishes God's law, and in 1 Corinthians 7:19 where Paul says "Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing but the keeping of the commandments of God, and again in Romans 13:8-10 where Paul says we love our neighbor as our self by being obedient to those laws in God's 10 commandments that show us our duty of love to our fellow man.

Indeed the ministration of the Spirit is greater the than the ministration of the letter because while the letter brings death and condemnation while the Spirit brings life and forgiveness through Christ and writes the law on the heart through faith that works by love which is Gods' new covenant promise in all those who have been born again to believe and follow God's Word and walk in newness of life *John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:4-9; Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27; Romans 6:1-23. It is not therefore God’s 10 commandments that have become obsolete it is the ministration of condemnation and death through the ministration of God’s forgiveness and His sacrifice for our sins.

Take Care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Loving others as Jesus loves us is such a beautiful way to live. Love in our hearts will truly keep us from doing harmful things to our fellow man. Love causes man to have a relationship with God above our relationship with any other living being. Love makes us understand that God truly come first in every thing we say and do and makes us understand what Jesus has done and is doing for man. All the law did was to point out sin. The Holy Spirit in us gently guides us in our loving relationship with God and our fellow man. The Holy Spirit is preparing each of us so that like Jesus we will never really die, we will have life eternal in the Earth made new. Amen! Thank you Jesus.

According to the scriptures, love is not separate from Gods' law it is expressed in obedience to God's law from the heart. This is what Jesus, Paul, James and John all teach in the scriptures provided earlier. We do not love God or our fellow man by breaking God's law as that is sin according to the scriptures and not love (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11).

When we LOVE GOD and our NEIGHBOR it is expressed through our actions.

If we LOVE our neighbour...

* Will we honor our parents?
* Will we not murder?
* Will we not commit adultery with our neighbor's spouse?
* Will we not steal from them?
* Will we not lie to them?
* Will we not covet what they own?

If we LOVE our God...

* Will we not have other Gods?
* Will we not make idols and worship them?
* Will we not take his name [follow] him in vain?
* Will we remember his seventh day Sabbath and keep it holy?

Now if your answer is yes then you agree with me. If your answer is no what kind of love are you talking about?

....................

According to the scriptures...

Jesus says that on the two great commandments of love to God and love to man hang all the law and the prophets in Matthew 22:36:40. That is love is not separate from Gods' law love is directly linked to obedience to Gods' law from the heart as love is from the heart. Jesus here is talking about obedience to Gods law from the heart as shown in Matthew 5:17-28

Paul agreeing with Jesus says that if we love our neighbor as our self we will not commit adultery with our neighbors spouse, we will not kill or murder our neighbor, we will not steal from our neighbor, we will not lie to our neighbor, and not covet the things our neighbor has and goes on to say that when it says loving our neighbor as our self that is it summing up that love is expressed in obedience to those laws in God's 10 commandment that are our duty of love to our fellow man from the heart in Romans 13:8-10.

James also agreeing with both Jesus and Paul talking about the same subject matter as Paul in regards to the royal law of loving our neighbor our our self also links love being expressed as obedience to Gods' law when he says if we have respect to laws we commit sin stating that if we break any one of Gods' 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin. Quoting from Gods' 10 commandments using the examples of thou shalt not commit adultery and thou shalt not kill, James says that if we break anyone of them we are transgressors of Gods' law and we will be judged by the law of liberty referring back to loving our neighbor as our self in James 2:8-12.

John is also in agreement with Jesus, Paul and James when he says in 1 John 5:2-3 we know we are the children of God when we love God and keep His commandments and John goes on to define love as keeping God's commandments (2 John 1:6). In fact John makes it very clear in 1 John 2:1-3 that no one even knows God if they break Gods' commandments in 1 John 2:3-4.

So love is not separate from obedience to Gods' law. Love is fulfilled by obeying Gods' law from a new heart in all those who have been born again into Gods' new covenant promise through faith in Gods' Word (see Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27).

Your mistake here is in thinking that love is separate from our actions. According to the scriptures we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9 but Gods grace is so we can be obedient to the faith *Romans 1:5. Obedience to God's Law is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 as we believe and follow his word *John 10:26-27.

If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27. Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14.

If you disagree please respond to my posts showing why you disagree from the scriptures. If you cannot than who are you disagreeing with? They are God's Words not mine.

May you be blessed and receive Gods' Word

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Hi Leaf, the question I keep asking Sabbath observers and the answers I get are the ten commandments.

Well that is not true. The response you get back is that according to the scriptures Gods' new covenant promise of a new heart to love is not separate from Gods law it is expressed in obedience to Gods' law as shown from the scriptures to you many time times that you refuse to discuss with me (e.g please see post # 568 linked). Love is not a feeling that leads us into disobedience. Love is expressed in words and actions leading us to obey what Gods' Word says and keep His commandments from the heart (see the scriptures already provided in the linked post above). This is Gods' new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27 to all those who have been born again to believe and follow what Gods' Word says. Those who are born again in the Spirit do not practice sin *1 John 3:6-9 defined in the scriptures are breaking Gods' law *1 John 3:4. Those who make a practice sin (breaking Gods law) according to the scriptures have not seen or know God *1 John 3:6 and there is no truth in them according *1 John 2:3-4.

Take Care Bob

 

[Bob S]

Those who make a practice sin (breaking Gods law) according to the scriptures have not seen or know God *1 John 3:6 and there is no truth in them according *1 John 2:3-4.

Remember when you point your finger at me you are pointing four back at yourself. I contend that those who are telling others that they must "keep" the old covenant Sabbath, that was given to Israel only, sin every Sabbath, are practicing sin week after week. Just renewed my contention week before last when I attended Sabbath Services and an afternoon with friends.

Is 58: “If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath
and from doing as you please on my holy day,
if you call the Sabbath a delight
and the Lord’s holy day honorable,
and if you honor it by not going your own way
and not doing as you please or speaking idle words,
14 then you will find your joy in the Lord,
and I will cause you to ride in triumph on the heights of the land
and to feast on the inheritance of your father Jacob.”

Since you prefer to keep one foot in the old covenant I remind you of Is 58:13-14 Good luck friend.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Remember when you point your finger at me you are pointing four back at yourself. I contend that those who are telling others that they must "keep" the old covenant Sabbath, that was given to Israel only, sin every Sabbath, are practicing sin week after week. Just renewed my contention week before last when I attended Sabbath Services and an afternoon with friends.

Is 58: “If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath
and from doing as you please on my holy day,
if you call the Sabbath a delight
and the Lord’s holy day honorable,
and if you honor it by not going your own way
and not doing as you please or speaking idle words,
14 then you will find your joy in the Lord,
and I will cause you to ride in triumph on the heights of the land
and to feast on the inheritance of your father Jacob.”

Since you prefer to keep one foot in the old covenant I remind you of Is 58:13-14 Good luck friend.

I think you misunderstand Bob. I was not pointing my finger at anyone including you. I simply provided scripture for what I believe. According to Jesus it is the word of God we accept or reject that will be our judge come judgement day in John 12:47-48. I do not judge you or anyone here. I do not know why you are sitting in judgement in regard to those who believe Gods' Word and keep His Sabbath out of love for God (see Romans 2:1-11). What was it from the scriptures in the posts I made that you disagree with?

Take Care.

 

[klutedavid]

We should be careful to believe and follow what the scriptures actually believe and say and not seek to read into the scripture what they do not say. According to the scriptures it is the ministration of condemnation and death that is done away through God's forgiveness, mercy and grace, not Gods' 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken in the new covenant *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4. According to the scriptures 2 Corinthians 3 is not Gods 10 commandments becoming obsolete it is the ministration of condemnation and death that is replaced by the ministration of the Spirit that brings life and peace through Gods’ forgiveness and faith in Christ.

Lets look at the scriptures.

2 CORINTHIANS 3:3-18
[3], For as much as YOU ARE MANIFESTLY DECLARED TO BE THE LETTER OF CHRIST MINISTERED BY US, WRITTEN NOT WITH INK, BUT WITH THE SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD; NOT IN TABLES OF STONE, BUT IN FLESHY TABLES OF THE HEART.
[4], And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
[5], Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
[6], WHO ALSO HAS MADE US ABLE MINISTERS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT; NOT OF THE LETTER, BUT OF THE SPIRIT: FOR THE LETTER KILLS, BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE.
[7], BUT IF THE MINISTRATION OF DEATH, WRITTEN AND ENGRAVED IN STONES, WAS GLORIOUS, SO THAT THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL COULD NOT STEADFASTLY BEHOLD THE FACE OF MOSES FOR THE GLORY OF HIS COUNTENANCE; WHICH GLORY WAS TO BE DONE AWAY:
[8], HOW SHALL NOT THE MINISTRATION OF THE SPIRIT BE RATHER GLORIOUS?
[9], FOR IF THE MINISTRATION OF CONDEMNATION be glory, much more does the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
[10], For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excels.
[11], FOR IF THAT WHICH IS DONE AWAY WAS GLORIOUS, MUCH MORE THAT WHICH REMAINS IS GLORIOUS.
[12], Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
[13], AND NOT AS MOSES, WHICH PUT A VEIL OVER HIS FACE, THAT THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL COULD NOT STEADFASTLY LOOK TO THE END OF THAT WHICH IS ABOLISHED:
[14], BUT THEIR MINDS WERE BLINDED: FOR UNTIL THIS DAY REMAINS THE SAME VEIL NOT TAKEN AWAY IN THE READING OF THE OLD TESTAMENT; WHICH VEIL IS DONE AWAY IN CHRIST.
[15], But even to this day, when Moses is read, the veil is on their heart.
[16], NEVERTHELESS WHEN IT SHALL TURN TO THE LORD, THE VEIL SHALL BE TAKEN AWAY.
[17], Now THE LORD IS THAT SPIRIT: AND WHERE THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS, THERE IS LIBERTY.
[18], But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the LORD.

.....................

It is the ministration of condemnation and death by the letter that is done away by the ministration of the Spirit through God's mercy, grace and forgiveness through faith that works by love in fulfillment of Gods' new covenant promise (Hebrews 8:10-12; from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27) that is done away not God's 10 commandments. All God's 10 commandments do under the new covenant is to give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (moral right doing) *Romans 3:20: Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172.

An interpretation that 2 Corinthians 3 is talking about abolishing Gods' 10 commandments has Paul in contradiction to Paul when he says in Romans 3:31 that faith does not abolish Gods' law it establishes God's law, and in 1 Corinthians 7:19 where Paul says "Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing but the keeping of the commandments of God, and again in Romans 13:8-10 where Paul says we love our neighbor as our self by being obedient to those laws in God's 10 commandments that show us our duty of love to our fellow man.

Indeed the ministration of the Spirit is greater the than the ministration of the letter because while the letter brings death and condemnation while the Spirit brings life and forgiveness through Christ and writes the law on the heart through faith that works by love which is Gods' new covenant promise in all those who have been born again to believe and follow God's Word and walk in newness of life *John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:4-9; Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27; Romans 6:1-23. It is not therefore God’s 10 commandments that have become obsolete it is the ministration of condemnation and death through the ministration of God’s forgiveness and His sacrifice for our sins.

Take Care.

How do you read this single verse?

[6], WHO ALSO HAS MADE US ABLE MINISTERS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT; NOT OF THE LETTER, BUT OF THE SPIRIT: FOR THE LETTER KILLS, BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

How do you read this single verse?

[6], WHO ALSO HAS MADE US ABLE MINISTERS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT; NOT OF THE LETTER, BUT OF THE SPIRIT: FOR THE LETTER KILLS, BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE.

I read the scripture in the same way I posted in the post you are quoting from as shown from the scripture contexts provided in post # 567 linked. The letter without the Spirit is nothing. Just like law without Grace or faith without works. It is the letter that leads us to the Spirit as we believe what it says, as the Spirit is the Spirit of the letter (John 6:63) who works through the letter to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith. Lets not cherry pick scripture out of context and read into it what it is not saying or teaching making Paul in contradiction with Paul.

Take Care

 

[pasifika]

I read the scripture in the same way I posted in the post you are quoting from as shown from the scripture contexts provided in post # 567 linked. The letter without the Spirit is nothing. It is the letter that leads us to the Spirit as the Spirit is the Spirit of the letter (John 6:63). Lets not cherry pick scripture out of context and read into it what it is not saying or teaching making Paul in contradiction with Paul.

Take Care

..."letter without the Spirit, is nothing??? What scriptures is that?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

..."letter without the Spirit, is nothing??? What scriptures is that?

The same ones where Jesus says "the words that I speak unto you they are Spirit and they are life." Gods Spirit is the Spirit of the words of God and works the words when we believe them making them come alive in those who believe and follow what Gods' Word says. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. The hour comes, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship him. Those who have eyes to see and those who have ears to hear will hear His voice and follow him. Those who do not hear will not follow because they are not His sheep and do not hear His words and they have no life in them.

 

[klutedavid]

I read the scripture in the same way I posted in the post you are quoting from as shown from the scripture contexts provided in post # 567 linked. The letter without the Spirit is nothing. Just like law without Grace or faith without works. It is the letter that leads us to the Spirit as we believe what it says, as the Spirit is the Spirit of the letter (John 6:63) who works through the letter to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith. Lets not cherry pick scripture out of context and read into it what it is not saying or teaching making Paul in contradiction with Paul.

Take Care

That was a good reply LGW. When your asked to explain just one verse, the reader can see that you misunderstand that verse. You did not even get close.

You did not mention anything about the ministry of the New Covenant (Testament).

[6], WHO ALSO HAS MADE US ABLE MINISTERS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT; NOT OF THE LETTER, BUT OF THE SPIRIT: FOR THE LETTER KILLS, BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE.

Then you failed to mention that we do not have a ministry of the letter.

[6], WHO ALSO HAS MADE US ABLE MINISTERS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT; NOT OF THE LETTER, BUT OF THE SPIRIT: FOR THE LETTER KILLS, BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE.

We are not ministers of the letter!

Then to make matters worse LGW, you did not acknowledge the distinction between the letter and the spirit.

[6], WHO ALSO HAS MADE US ABLE MINISTERS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT; NOT OF THE LETTER, BUT OF THE SPIRIT: FOR THE LETTER KILLS, BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE.

We are minsters of The Spirit, not of the letter.

Then you hit rock bottom with your next failure, to acknowledge that the letters kills.

[6], WHO ALSO HAS MADE US ABLE MINISTERS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT; NOT OF THE LETTER, BUT OF THE SPIRIT: FOR THE LETTER KILLS, BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE.

Your reply was unsound, incorrect and dangerous, on a public forum.

 

[Bob S]

LGW wrote:

Those who are born again in the Spirit do not practice sin *1 John 3:6-9 defined in the scriptures are breaking Gods' law *1 John 3:4. Those who make a practice sin (breaking Gods law) according to the scriptures have not seen or know God *1 John 3:6 and there is no truth in them according *1 John 2:3-4.

LGW wrote:

I think you misunderstand Bob. I was not pointing my finger at anyone including you. I simply provided scripture for what I believe.

What you have done is to employ the use of scripture to do your dirty work. Then you are able to claim you are clean. The problem is, all that scripture you claim proves your point when analyzed proves nothing.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LGW wrote: LGW wrote: What you have done is to employ the use of scripture to do your dirty work. Then you are able to claim you are clean. The problem is, all that scripture you claim proves your point when analyzed proves nothing.

As posted earlier Bob, I do not judge any one here as that is not my job. I have only provided scripture for what I believe. If you feel convicted by the scriptures that have been shared with you in what I believe then that is between you and God not me and you, as I do not judge you. Jesus says that the words of God we accept or reject become our judge come judgement day in Matthew 12:47-48 and it is the Spirit of truth that convicts the world of sin and of righteousness and of the judgement to come *John 16:8-9. Let's all pray we do not harden our hearts in sin and unbelief as we are warned against in Hebrews 3:8-19. I am clean through the Words of God spoken to me that I believe and follow *see John 15:3; 1 John 1:9

Take Care Bob.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

That was a good reply LGW. When your asked to explain just one verse, the reader can see that you misunderstand that verse. You did not even get close.

You did not mention anything about the ministry of the New Covenant (Testament).

[6], WHO ALSO HAS MADE US ABLE MINISTERS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT; NOT OF THE LETTER, BUT OF THE SPIRIT: FOR THE LETTER KILLS, BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE.

Then you failed to mention that we do not have a ministry of the letter.

[6], WHO ALSO HAS MADE US ABLE MINISTERS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT; NOT OF THE LETTER, BUT OF THE SPIRIT: FOR THE LETTER KILLS, BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE.

We are not ministers of the letter!

Then to make matters worse LGW, you did not acknowledge the distinction between the letter and the spirit.

[6], WHO ALSO HAS MADE US ABLE MINISTERS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT; NOT OF THE LETTER, BUT OF THE SPIRIT: FOR THE LETTER KILLS, BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE.

We are minsters of The Spirit, not of the letter.

Then you hit rock bottom with your next failure, to acknowledge that the letters kills.

[6], WHO ALSO HAS MADE US ABLE MINISTERS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT; NOT OF THE LETTER, BUT OF THE SPIRIT: FOR THE LETTER KILLS, BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE.

Your reply was unsound, incorrect and dangerous, on a public forum.

Please forgive me but I do not believe you. Your interpretation of 2 Corinthians 3:3-11 was proven wrong in a detailed scripture response with context provided in post # 524 linked that you refuse to discuss. An interpretation that 2 Corinthians 3 is talking about abolishing Gods' 10 commandments has Paul in contradiction to Paul when he says in Romans 3:31 that faith does not abolish Gods' law it establishes God's law, and in 1 Corinthians 7:19 where Paul says "Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing but the keeping of the commandments of God, and again in Romans 13:8-10 where Paul says we love our neighbor as our self by being obedient to those laws in God's 10 commandments that show us our duty of love to our fellow man. Indeed the ministration of the Spirit is greater the than the ministration of the letter because while the letter brings death and condemnation while the Spirit brings life and forgiveness through Christ and writes the law on the heart through faith that works by love which is Gods' new covenant promise in all those who have been born again to believe and follow God's Word and walk in newness of life *John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:4-9; Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27; Romans 6:1-23. It is not therefore God’s 10 commandments that have become obsolete it is the ministration of condemnation and death through the ministration of God’s forgiveness and His sacrifice for our sins. The letter without the Spirit has not life in it but only condemnation and death (see John 6:63). If you want to believe Paul is in contradiction with Paul as shown in the scriptures above then that is up to you. Gods' Word does not contradict itself and Paul does not contradict himself. If we find that our interpretation of a scripture is in contradiction to the rest of the bible we should consider that perhaps it is our understanding of what the scripture is saying that is in error and not the bible. I what the scriptures teach and it is not what you are teaching as shown through the scriptures already shared with you.

Take Care.

 

[Bob S]

LGW write:

Just like law without Grace or faith without works.

Works like keeping old covenant commands that were only for one nation, Israel? If you had wanted to write the truth you would have written faith without good deeds.

LGW wrote:

Lets not cherry pick scripture out of context and read into it what it is not saying or teaching making Paul in contradiction with Paul.

This coming from the master???