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Am I welcome in TAW?

Discussion in 'The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox' started by SeraphimSarov, Nov 25, 2020.

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  1. SeraphimSarov

    SeraphimSarov Well-Known Member

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    ***ORTHODOX TAW MEMBERS ONLY!!!***

    Alright, so maybe a few of you who remember me are wondering why I am now sporting the Catholic faith icon or whatever CF calls it now. Well, this is TAW, so I'm not going to bring up what led me to do this, because I don't want to say anything against the Orthodox faith, but for those who don't know me, I grew up Catholic, left the Church for things of the literally satanic variety, converted to Orthodoxy and spent over a decade as an Orthodox Christian, and recently returned to my roots as a Catholic. I just want to know if I'm still welcome to participate in discussions around here. I remember the lovely @Anhelyna once was an Eastern Catholic and was still very active here before she became Orthodox, so I'm wondering if I might post here in the capacity she did? Frankly I am still very drawn to Orthodox spirituality and liturgy, and if there were an Eastern Catholic parish nearby, I'd probably split my time between the Divine Liturgy and the Traditional Latin Mass. (This may give a clue as to a small reason why I went back to Catholicism, actually.)

    Anyway. Please do let me know how I ought to proceed. I do not feel at home in OBOB at all. I feel at home here.

    EDIT: I know I've already been participating, but I realized I should have asked first... forgive me.
     
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  2. prodromos

    prodromos Senior Veteran Supporter

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    You are posting in fellowship. Why wouldn't you be welcome?
     
  3. prodromos

    prodromos Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I think of OBOB as Michie's blog. If she didn't post there it would probably have as much activity as "The Voice in the Desert", without the excuse of having only a few members registered.
     
  4. Anhelyna

    Anhelyna Handmaid of God CF Senior Ambassador Supporter

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    Thanks for the mention :)

    Yes I started out here in TAW - brought here by a friend who needed some help on one topic - and I stayed :)

    In a way TAW is like my present parish - all nationalities and all friends with each other. We know what the boundaries are and we don't cross them and this applies in TAW too ;)

    Why wouldn't you be welcome here ?
     
  5. SeraphimSarov

    SeraphimSarov Well-Known Member

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    Well, let's take you for example. You started as an Eastern Catholic and became Orthodox. My journey seems to be the exact opposite... I was Orthodox, then went Eastern Catholic (to the extent I could, there are no parishes within two hours of here), and I'm pretty much a full-blown traditionalist Latin Catholic now with a metric ton of Eastern influence. I guess I'm worried people here might not take kindly to that. I mean I still pray mostly Eastern prayers on my own time. I just attend the Tridentine liturgy. Maybe that's not so foreign since the Western Rite exists in Orthodoxy, albeit in (sadly) small numbers.

    I'm definitely not here to tell anyone to submit to the Holy Father, nor am I going to try to tell you all that you should agree with me about the two-lung theory. I know there is an entire subforum for those discussions, and frankly I already know the Orthodox positions on these things, so there's no point in having them. I just love the Eastern saints, the Eastern prayers, the Eastern liturgy, the Eastern theology. With @Anhelyna going east, I'm not sure there are even any Eastern Catholics on this board. It's lonely.

    And yes, @prodromos pretty much hit the nail on the head for why I don't visit OBOB much. I also do not want to deal with poltiics. If I wanted that, I'd get back on Facebook and argue with my family and friends ad nauseum. I want to discuss the Faith, and I feel far more at home discussing the faith with the Orthodox than with many Catholics who can't even say what the Immaculate Conception is. Most I've come across in real life think the Immaculate Conception refers to the conception of Christ... proper catechism for cradles does not seem to be a Catholic strong suit, I'm afraid. (I should know. I probably never would have become fully Orthodox if I had known anything about Catholicism besides that clown "masses" have occurred, honestly.)
     
  6. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    of course you are welcome here.
     
  7. All4Christ

    All4Christ ✙ The Handmaid of God Laura ✙ CF Senior Ambassador Supporter

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    You’re always welcome
     
  8. Justin-H.S.

    Justin-H.S. Retrograde

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    Is (or was) St Seraphim your patron? I’m listening to his book on the acquisition of the Holy Spirit. I think I lost Him (or perhaps I never had Him) and am trying to get Him back. My wife has what looks like St Seraphim’s biography by Archimandrite Lazarus, called “An Extraordinary Peace,” but I don’t think it’s the one about attaining to the Holy Spirit.

    Anyways, welcome to TAW.
     
  9. SeraphimSarov

    SeraphimSarov Well-Known Member

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    Well, you didn't ask for my biography, but I was baptized Catholic and chrismated (or confirmed as the Catholic Church calls it) Orthodox. My holy patron is indeed St. Seraphim. I believe his prayers, along with those of the Mother of God, have gotten me through a lot of nasty stuff in my life, including flirting with the adversary himself. St. Seraphim's works are so short and simple, and yet I do believe it will take a lifetime for me to digest them fully. Check out the his volume in the Little Russian Philokalia. I believe "On Acquisition of the Holy Spirit" is included in it, as well as his spiritual instructions and his biography.
     
  10. Phronema

    Phronema Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You're certainly welcome here in my opinion.
     
  11. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

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    Then come home! :)
     
  12. Justin-H.S.

    Justin-H.S. Retrograde

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    Unfortunately, the series by Fr. Seraphim is out of print, and what could be found was $350. You’re right, there’s a copy of “On the Acquisition...” for $5 and its a whopping 60 pages long.
     
  13. Hermit76

    Hermit76 You can call me Paisios Supporter

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    I think most of us either flirted or were Catholic before becoming Orthodox. Although I don't agree with your decision I understand it. There are times I drive by a Protestant Church of my childhood and get good memories that stay with me.
    You're showing respect and you are contributing with valued input. Of course you are welcome here.
     
  14. gurneyhalleck1

    gurneyhalleck1 Reader

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    To the OP:
    I'd agree with what everyone here said. You are indeed welcome. Everyone is. What would God think of us if we were to turn away believers from the Church? If there is a millimeter sized chance you might rejoin Orthodoxy, I'd want you in here for that reason alone.

    I'm probably the only person in here who has been in your shoes. I was Catholic most of my life, went back and forth in a ping-ponging motion between Catholic and Anglican for several years, but mostly Roman. I 2012 I converted to Orthodoxy, encountered some scandalous, lousy behavior and issues at my Orthodox parish about 2 years into it, then left Holy Orthodoxy for Eastern Catholicism.

    Eastern Catholicism for me was a sad desert. It was a bleak and weird type of tofu with no taste. It sought to be something that cannot and should not exist---both Roman and Eastern in one package. It was bizarre. My observation was that, as these Eastern Catholic folks, I won't use the 'u-word' just in case Anhelyna might still slap me (^_^^_^^_^) for uttering it, tried to have their cake and eat it, too, they never seemed to end up understanding either faith

    I noticed how EC's would read books by Fr. Seraphim Rose and Fr. Schmemann, and Fr. Hopko, etc. What would Fathers Rose, Schmemann, and Hopko think of Eastern Catholicism? The weirdest thing for me was EC's reading St. Mark of Ephesus. Ponder that one for a minute! It's like those people who stick Chevy engines in Dodges or Ford engines in Chevy's. Why flirt with the other automaker? Just buy a Dodge. MOPAR or no car. Or go pure Ford. But pick a team. That's my philosophy.

    Why?

    Because Orthodoxy and Catholicism, whether or not we like to talk of this much, are opposed to one another in more ways than one. It goes beyond leaved vs. unleavened bread. It goes beyond married priests vs. celibate ones. It goes beyond history and the trading of bad behavior in things like the Massacre of the Latins and the Sacking of Constantinople. It goes deeper. It's about something as fundamental as the heretical idea that the Pope is infallible and universally all-powerful and supreme over all bishops. It gets down to things like indulgences, purgatory, a juridical and legalistic view of salvation, severe thinking where the Fall is concerned, guilt, a theology of the Cross that is victim vs. victor, and the power and all-penetrating importance of tradition vs. modern tomfoolery and horsing around with the liturgy. It is a million different issues, death by a thousand cuts. The Roman Church is very lost.

    I returned to Catholicism amid my anger, my frustration, my hurt, and confusion, and I felt depleted for the 9 months I was there. I felt thirsty. I saw people hungering for Orthodoxy but trying to satisfy something inside themselves that made them think they had to be in communion with the Pope. They seemed unhappy and unfulfilled as did I. As I explored the history of the EC's, I saw it was mostly political expediency and cultural, not religious. And I explored how the Popes and Roman cardinals and bishops treated EC's for the last few hundred years. Not pretty.

    I have gone back to Catholicism. My heart pounded and the Holy Spirit drew me back to Orthodoxy. I never thought I would've returned to it after the hurt I experienced on a personal level. But I did. And watching the wondrous way God has tested me since and has used several situations between my priest, his wife, me, and other parishioners to learn how to forgive, heal, and be obedient has shaped me. I still struggle with some decisions at my parish. I still face-palm sometimes or disagree, but I am obedient and I put my theological love over my personal needs.

    I hope, OP, as you stay here, as I hope you do, that you will have an open heart to Orthodoxy again. I understand what it is to "revert" back to Rome. I also know what the joy and treasure is to be found by reverting from the reversion. A negative and a negative surely can equal a positive. Don't close the door on the True Ancient Faith quite yet. Perhaps the Holy Spirit is indeed grabbing you and pulling you home by your yearning to come in here.

    I hope so.

    God bless you. And YES we want you here no matter what.
     
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  15. prodromos

    prodromos Senior Veteran Supporter

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    ^_^
    You knew you were going to hear from Gurney sooner or later.
     
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  16. Hermit76

    Hermit76 You can call me Paisios Supporter

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    Gurney 6:12-47
     
  17. SeraphimSarov

    SeraphimSarov Well-Known Member

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    I think my heyday was before gurney came, but I've read this forum a lot over the years and certainly know who he is! And @gurneyhalleck1, I don't know what God has in store for me, but I will try to remain open to whatever that may be. Thank you for your post!
     
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  18. Justin-H.S.

    Justin-H.S. Retrograde

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    I never understood this point of view as to why people felt the need to be in communion with the Pope.

    The reason I hear the most is because: "Without a Pope you have no Church unity," but that just sounds like an ad hoc excuse after the papacy was already established. I doubt the ECF's were like: "We need to establish a papacy or the Church will fall out of communion with each other." Then, why have Ecumenical Councils if the Pope could decide on issues by fiat? If there's a Church in Persia, why would the head of that community be thousands of miles away in Rome?
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2020
  19. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    also, there is no history of a need to be in communion with Rome. at the 5th Council, Pope Vigilius was excommunicated by the East for refusing the Council, then excommunicated by the West when he accepted the Council.
     
  20. Justin-H.S.

    Justin-H.S. Retrograde

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    According to Bishop Barron here, the best argument for the Papacy is of its function as a "living voice of authority." So, when Roman Catholics say "Apostolic Succession" they mean only St. Peter's succession?

     
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