Am I being selfish? (moved from E&M)

Lik3

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Is it wrong for or to wish that the Lord would just immediately arrive? Sometimes I wish I would just leave with other believers. I am only saying this because of a young girl in Brazil who was gang raped and over 30 men are suspects. This crime has also been videotaped. My heart is very heavy for this young girl and it is just so unsettling. I prayed and will continue to pray about this situation. I don't know all of the details except her boyfriend may have been the one who lured her in and a number of men were armed surrounding her. That is all I know other than the protest of this brutal rape occurring. I wish that this scenario was not true. It seems to me that the world has gotten worse by the minute in my view. It seems to have gotten worse with nothing in sight. Am I being selfish for feeling this way? How should I view even the most unsettling stories as a Christian? I will also note that this has become an OCD spike for me.
 
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Hieronymus

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I read so many OCD cases here..
What is the cause? i wonder.. (i don't know)
I have depression plus anger issues and prone to addiction (smoke in particular..)

Anyhow, yes, the world is sick, increasingly...
Or maybe it's information overload by global (social and regular) media..
And yes, i want to escape this world too.

There's probably a selfish element in these sentiments, but also the knowledge of other people suffering is a burden on our moods.
Like you, my heart also hurts when i hear about the evil and suffering life bestows on people.. :(
 
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ClothedInGrace

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I want the Lord to arrive immediately as well. I think there is no fault in you for wanting our Lord to come and make things right. This world sucks and it's hard to keep living here, but by God's grace all will work out for His glory and our Good. Things might not look that way, but we were not called to an easy faith, but one that challenges our fleshly mindset.
 
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Strivax

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Thing is, for two thousand years people have been waiting, and waiting, and dieing still waiting...

I think we really ought to have got the message by now. We need to sort the state of the world out for ourselves. When it is in a fit state for Jesus#2, then let Him come, and let us proudly hand it over to Him, with nothing left for Him to do. Let Him have a holiday life, this second coming. He's earned it, if anyone has. Let Him travel, and see the world we have made beautiful and wholesome and good in all respects, out of respect for Him.

But meanwhile, we have hands and hearts and heads. So let us use them, and make of the world a paradise, not for ourselves, but each for each other. By doing it that way round, we may just find our own heavens on earth, and Jesus's, too.

Cheers, Strivax.
 
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Strivax

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Read my post again. You will find I simply mean that the second coming is not a happening on any fixed date, real soon now, imminently in time. It is not, therefore, an item we can rely on to sort out the world in our lifetimes. So, we need to do it ourselves.

Cheers, Strivax.
 
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Hieronymus

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Read my post again. You will find I simply mean that the second coming is not a happening on any fixed date, real soon now, imminently in time. It is not, therefore, an item we can rely on to sort out the world in our lifetimes. So, we need to do it ourselves.

Cheers, Strivax.
Then He lied.
 
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FireDragon76

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I don't really believe Christians will be spared the miseries of life through some kind of rapture. Having said that, read the Lord's prayer, what does it say? "Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth, as it is in heaven." Bad things in this world happen but the Christian hope is that one day, God's will, will be done on earth as in heaven.
 
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Strivax

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Then He lied.

Not necessarily. There is a considerable difference between probably not happening tomorrow, not happening this week or month, maybe not even in our lifetimes, and definitely not happening ever.

Cheers, Strivax.
 
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Hieronymus

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I don't really believe Christians will be spared the miseries of life through some kind of rapture. Having said that, read the Lord's prayer, what does it say? "Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth, as it is in heaven." Bad things in this world happen but the Christian hope is that one day, God's will, will be done on earth as in heaven.
It is written He will.
The Day of the Lord.
Then Christ will reign on earth for a thousand years.
Until that day, things will not improve (on average).
The false messiah will claim to be God first, and the world will believe him.
 
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Hieronymus

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Not necessarily. There is a considerable difference between probably not happening tomorrow, not happening this week or month, maybe not even in our lifetimes, and definitely not happening ever.

Cheers, Strivax.
Alright, sorry, i guess i still didn't read it too well..

Perhaps we even agree...
Because certain things have to happen first.
 
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razzelflabben

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Is it wrong for or to wish that the Lord would just immediately arrive? Sometimes I wish I would just leave with other believers. I am only saying this because of a young girl in Brazil who was gang raped and over 30 men are suspects. This crime has also been videotaped. My heart is very heavy for this young girl and it is just so unsettling. I prayed and will continue to pray about this situation. I don't know all of the details except her boyfriend may have been the one who lured her in and a number of men were armed surrounding her. That is all I know other than the protest of this brutal rape occurring. I wish that this scenario was not true. It seems to me that the world has gotten worse by the minute in my view. It seems to have gotten worse with nothing in sight. Am I being selfish for feeling this way? How should I view even the most unsettling stories as a Christian? I will also note that this has become an OCD spike for me.
Amos 5:18 tells us how the believer should feel about the coming of the Lord. What we often times fail to understand in our grief over the evil in this world is that two things happen when Christ comes back 1. evil grows because the "Light" is gone and 2. it is harder for those that want to come to Christ to come. IOW's your approach where common because of the deep grief is ignoring all the people who will be left without hope or with insufficient hope.
 
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Strivax

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That would be great but what do you do if you are just one powerless individual? We live in a world where people with the power to change things, often do not do so. Sometimes they aren't even aware there is a problem.

That is, of course the precisely the problem with any kind of hierarchic political arrangement of the world, be it patriarchal, aristocratic, meritocratic or merely economic. The people at the top don't have any way of relating to the deprivation and struggles of those at the bottom. They may sympathise, some of them may even do tangible, good things with that sympathy, but very few really understand disparities in wealth and status, and the resultant suffering, and fewer still would cast their democratic vote to end them.

Cheers, Strivax.
 
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razzelflabben

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I personally feel like some here are missing the point. Even scripture tells us that suffering is part of this fallen world. IOW's every single true believer on the face of the earth could give 100% of their time and resources to end suffering and it still wouldn't be enough. In fact, only Christ is enough and it is not yet time according to scripture for everything to be reconciled to God through Christ. That is why the OP question is a valid one to ask no matter how much the OPer is or is not doing.

Consider this, my husbands family were missionaries to Nigeria. While they were there, they saw a small "revival" of sorts, that is a fair number of believers. After coming back to the states, (a few years later) the same area saw persecution. that persecution led to the church growing to 94% (something like that, I forget the exact percent) christian population. Why? Because persecution and suffering has a funny way of spreading the gospel and making it come alive. If everything is wonderful, all roses and chocolate, there is no need for Christ to break the bondage of sin and death which is why He came in the first place. IOW's the sufferings we face in this world, reveal to us the need for a Savior. To do away with that, removes the revelation and people suffer and die without ever realizing that Jesus is worthy and HIm alone.

That being said, scripture does tell us that when Christ comes back, the "Light" that is His witness to the world is gone, making those days darkness without any light at all. Think about that, all the evil that goes on around us, as horrible and difficult as it is to deal with, still has a glimmer, a reflection of God who is light, in the darkness that we are talking about. When Christ returns, that light is gone, leaving everyone here in total darkness, with only stories of Christ to spur them to belief rather than the guaranteed HS that we have today. That is why desiring His second coming is wrong, to desire to be with Him is another matter altogether.
 
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FireDragon76

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That sounds odd, that when Christ returns there will be darkness and no Holy Spirit. Early Christians (and many churches today) still have their altars and churches facing east, because Augustine explained that on his return, Christ would be like a sun that rises but never sets.

Strivax is right, we should spend our time doing good and trying to make the world a better place. That is what the biblical idea of justice is about. I'm not some kind of utopian idealist but a salvation that is about some otherworldly happiness for me that disregards the real, physical needs of my neighbor is not in keeping with what the Bible says on the matter. It's the same as no salvation at all.
 
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razzelflabben

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That sounds odd, that when Christ returns there will be darkness and no Holy Spirit. Early Christians (and many churches today) still have their altars and churches facing east, because Augustine explained that on his return, Christ would be like a sun that rises but never sets.
not what I say, what scripture says, I already presented the Amos passage that says it clearly, also look at Isaiah 5:30 and 8:22; Isaiah 13:6; Jeremiah 13:16; Joel 1:15; and Joel 2:1-2 in fact, Rev. talks about some of the darkness of that day, it is a day of judgment not of Love which we are living in now and it is a day that is coming if we trust scripture to truly be the word of God.
Strivax is right, we should spend our time doing good and trying to make the world a better place. That is what the biblical idea of justice is about. I'm not some kind of utopian idealist but a salvation that is about some otherworldly happiness for me that disregards the real, physical needs of my neighbor is not in keeping with what the Bible says on the matter. It's the same as no salvation at all.
I have no problem with working to make our world a better place, in fact, that too is scriptural, but then again, I didn't even suggest that we shouldn't....The rest of this I am not sure how to unravel....FIrst, happiness is not a guarantee for anyone in scripture, however those that are living in and yielding to the working of the HS are promised peace, joy, patience, love, etc. Gal. 5. Some people call this joy that is promised happiness though they are not the same thing, if that is your meaning, then we can work with that. Second, the promise of everything eventually being reconciled to God including but not limited to this world, is not the same thing as just sitting back and waiting for God to come, in fact, we are told to do good works. Think about it this way, if we are doing the good works we are told to do before the second coming that is fewer people who will face the darkness of that day where light is absent. So, yeah, I really don't know why you think that they are exclusive of one another. In fact, we are talking about whether desire of that day is selfish not whether we should work as if that day were coming. You seem to be confusing the two. Obviously, work as if the day is coming, but to desire it means that you desire for all those left behind to live in darkness rather than light which is not right. IOW's they go hand in hand not opposite of one another and honestly, I am a slight bit offended that you would even try to twist what I said that way.

Finally, salvation is NOT about heaven though heaven is on the table, it is about life and that life is the light of the world. IOW's we are to live out Christ on this earth, but when the Lord returns and we are gone, who is left to show the lost the life that is found in Christ.
 
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razzelflabben

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That doesn't make sense... if the suffering and death is removed, then people wouldn't suffer and die :p
yep, and they also wouldn't know that they needed Jesus, which is what the post says if context isn't removed. Without Jesus there is no life.
but neither does the idea that god needs to let us suffer so that we can need him to save us from a suffering (suffering he allowed). If the god prevented the suffering and just came and saved people.... well then people would just be saved which should be the end goal. A person who specifically allows suffering for the purpose of being allowed to relieve it is only interested in being needed, not the well being of his people. Especially when he says the path is narrow and almost no one survives anyway. He's basically only interested in gathering his most loving servants and using torture as the means to do that.
huh? Wait, I am totally confused now, what are you talking about? Seriously, I have a guess that you are trying to make the argument that when we come to Christ all suffering stops, but that isnt' what the bible says, so I'm back to no clue what you are trying to argue here. Please clarify.
 
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razzelflabben

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razzelflabben

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About those news articles and statistics that you mentioned in post #42.
I didn't know it was a problem to disagree....what I am seeing is an over all unrest that is being perpetrated by all kinds of things including but not limited to the media. Most of the available stats focus only on the US but as the OP suggests, we are talking bout more than just the US. In fact, most people in the US seem to think that the US is the entire world or at least reflects it. Admittedly, we cannot buy everything that the media is trying to sell us, but look at some of the world wide stats

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-religion-christianity-persecution-idUSBRE9070TB20130108
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/top-5-countries-highest-rates-rape-1434355
http://peacealliance.org/tools-education/statistics-on-violence/

Now, the first one talks about the rise in persecution world wide, the second rape and the third violence in general. All three if you read far enough show an increase. Thus, evidence of my opinion...I have seen articles that show your opinion, all of which are about the US only which is clearly outside the OP question and secondly, none of them deal with the last couple of years
 
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