Altar call no-no's

[Mountainmanbob]

 

[Dave L]

Jesus says whoever believes has eternal life. So those who go to the altar must already believe (have salvation) or they wouldn't make the trip. But the drawback is that the altar call makes them think their decision is what saved them, so they trust in that instead of Jesus. But they already believed or they would not have decided to believe.

 

[bcbsr]

Jesus says whoever believes has eternal life. So those who go to the altar must already believe (have salvation) or they wouldn't make the trip. But the drawback is that the altar call makes them think their decision is what saved them, so they trust in that instead of Jesus. But they already believed or they would not have decided to believe.

Excellent point. I would say the same holds true of those in Acts 2:37 who said, "Brothers, what shall we do?" They obviously believe the message and so were saved. Having been saved Peter responded, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins." Acts 2:38

While there are those who view this as supporting the idea that water baptism is necessary for salvation, that's kind of an altar call for the saved. And "for the forgiveness of your sins" is not saying "in order that your sins may be forgiven", but rather "to celebrate the fact that your sins have been forgiven". A Greek scholar (Robertson) says the "for" is like in the phrase "Jesse James was wanted for murder". Not in order to commit murder, but because he had committed murder.

And I suppose there are other such "altar call" examples where some end up misconstruing the means of justification.

 

[Dave-W]

Jesus says whoever believes has eternal life. So those who go to the altar must already believe (have salvation) or they wouldn't make the trip. But the drawback is that the altar call makes them think their decision is what saved them, so they trust in that instead of Jesus. But they already believed or they would not have decided to believe.

Joel said all who call on His name would be saved. Joel 2.32
Peter quoted that in Acts 2.21
Paul said to believe and confess in Rom 10.9, 10
Our Lord said no one can come unless drawn by the Father. Jn 6.44

People come forward when they respond positively to the draw. There they can call on Him and confess faith.

 

[Dave L]

Joel said all who call on His name would be saved. Joel 2.32
Peter quoted that in Acts 2.21
Paul said to believe and confess in Rom 10.9, 10
Our Lord said no one can come unless drawn by the Father. Jn 6.44

People come forward when they respond positively to the draw. There they can call on Him and confess faith.

But they already believe (are saved) before they call on the name of the Lord or do anything similar. Unbelievers would not do this.

 

[Chris V++]

While there are those who view this as supporting the idea that water baptism is necessary for salvation, that's kind of an altar call for the saved. And "for the forgiveness of your sins" is not saying "in order that your sins may be forgiven", but rather "to celebrate the fact that your sins have been forgiven". A Greek scholar (Robertson) says the "for" is like in the phrase "Jesse James was wanted for murder". Not in order to commit murder, but because he had committed murder.

Wow that's a really enlightening perspective on it. I remember feeling compelled to want to be baptized after the repentance and the 'born again' moment, and based on my own inner promptings, experience, and feelings never believed anyone who preached that baptism a necessary component of salvation, and so you've added another perspective on Acts 2:38.

The video in the op is right to point out how manipulative some of these practices can be. I attended a church with a pastor team that wasn't above public humiliation to try to motivate specific members, either overtly or with subliminal suggestions, with sermons composed to make the target(s) think the Holy Spirit was doing the prompting, with additional follow up essay entries into their public pastoral blogs and tweets.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

But they already believe (are saved) before they call on the name of the Lord or do anything similar. Unbelievers would not do this.

I'm sure there are many false converts that have done an altar call or two.

What I recommend to these ones who have done an altar call is to later down the road look back and see if the Holy Spirit is working in your life. If not you are probably not born again.

I have heard of a church that after doing the altar call told the ones that came up welcome to the family of God. This could set in place some false assurance.

M-Bob

 

[Dave-W]

But they already believe (are saved) before they call on the name of the Lord or do anything similar. Unbelievers would not do this.

Prevenient grace allows them to respond BEFORE salvation.

It also allows them to reject the pulling.

 

[Dave L]

Prevenient grace allows them to respond BEFORE salvation.

It also allows them to reject the pulling.

There is no such thing as prevenient grace.

 

[Dave-W]

There is no such thing as prevenient grace.

Your opinion.

 

[Dave L]

Your opinion.

We need proof for your claim.

 

[Dave-W]

I have neither the time nor inclination to re-do the works of Jacob Arminius and John Wesley for you.

Go look up what they wrote about it.

Here. Is a start from the UMC website:

Prevenient Grace
Wesley understood grace as God’s active presence in our lives. This presence is not dependent on human actions or human response. It is a gift — a gift that is always available, but that can be refused.

God’s grace stirs up within us a desire to know God and empowers us to respond to God’s invitation to be in relationship with God. God’s grace enables us to discern differences between good and evil and makes it possible for us to choose good….

God takes the initiative in relating to humanity. We do not have to beg and plead for God’s love and grace. God actively seeks us!1

​

 

[Dave L]

I have neither the time nor inclination to re-do the works of Jacob Arminius and John Wesley for you.

Go look up what they wrote about it.

Lets just say prevenient grace saves people so they can believe and repent.

 

[Chris V++]

Prevenient grace allows them to respond BEFORE salvation.

It also allows them to reject the pulling.

Would prevenient grace be what would cause someone to have faith to begin with? Who goes from 0 to saved in one second without the Holy Spirit working on you? Is that was prevenient grace means, the evidence of the Holy Spirit working to prompt or compel one to belief?

 

[Dave-W]

Lets just say prevenient grace saves people so they can believe and repent.

Let’s not.

What about the person who feels drawn time after time and keeps resisting? Previenient grace is there but salvation is not.

 

[Dave L]

Let’s not.

What about the person who feels drawn time after time and keeps resisting? Previenient grace is there but salvation is not.

If you must do something to be saved, you already believe (are saved) or you wouldn't do it.

 

[Dave-W]

Would prevenient grace be what would cause someone to have faith to begin with? Who goes from 0 to saved in one second without the Holy Spirit working on you? Is that was prevenient grace means, the evidence of the Holy Spirit working to prompt or compel one to belief?

That would be a rough description, yes.

 

[Dave-W]

If you must do something to be saved, you already believe (are saved) or you wouldn't do it.

Of course we do something. God always wants a Divine-human partnership.

Why did He speak thru prophets rather than just announcing His intent from a mountain top (like Sinai) ?

You seem to be adding things assumed so it fits your theology.

 

[Dave L]

Of course we do something. God always wants a Divine-human partnership.

Why did He speak thru prophets rather than just announcing His intent from a mountain top (like Sinai) ?

You seem to be adding things assumed so it fits your theology.

So you are saved before you respond? Or, you would not respond?

 

[Dave-W]

So you are saved before you respond? Or, you would not respond?

You can respond and be saved, or resist and not be saved. Your choice.