Almost Stumped Me

[hhodgson]

I am currently re-reading one of my books by Andrew Wommack, and for now, I'll not reveal which one. (Title could be a give away). I ran across one paragraph about "faith" that befuddled me some until I got it. Andrew "quoted" another preacher that said...

"You have to say it's so when it isn't so, in order for it to become so."

There it is (nice phrase) but, if your anything like me in my (lightening fast mind), I had to think on this one. I welcome your comments...


Greater words...
_____________
Harry

 

[Scottmcc1]

That might be Andrew Wommack's phraseology of Mark 11:24
Therefore I say to you, all things for which you pray and ask, believe that you have received them, and they will be granted you.

 

[hhodgson]

I am currently re-reading one of my books by Andrew Wommack, and for now, I'll not reveal which one. (Title could be a give away). I ran across one paragraph about "faith" that befuddled me some until I got it. Andrew "quoted" another preacher that said...

"You have to say it's so when it isn't so, in order for it to become so."

There it is (nice phrase) but, if your anything like me in my (lightening fast mind), I had to think on this one. I welcome your comments...

________________________________________________________________

Thanks for your response Scott and now I will quote what Andrew says about this "quote" he heard from this pastor...

Andrew Wommack. "This "quote" is not true! That's just lies, deception, and mind games. (unquote)

From his book...You've Already Got It. (page 79)

My question is "Why" he beleives that way..?

Again...all comments welcome!


Greater works...
_____________
Harry

 

[Gospel Guy]

"You have to say it's so when it isn't so, in order for it to become so."

Well... it depends on if you are making stuff up saying some things, or if you are saying some things based on God's promises, and then... if you are saying things based on God's promises cause you've waiting on His leading and He is telling you to say it...

Lot of folks now days try to use God's promises to get what they want to use for the flesh which causes the faith of God not to work... but human will can cause it to work along with a few devils that seeks to run you in to the ditch and away from God.

Other than all this, it sounds like He is describing God calling things that be not as though they were.

 

[Scottmcc1]

OK now I'm remembering. Andrew says that you can't speak yourself into believing. Charles Capps is big on teaching confession. So the quote I'm guessing came from Capps.

I don't remember why he believes that way.

In my view you can change the way you think and believe by confessing the Word of God, by letting it get into you. That is what I do with my memory/meditation cards. Bible verses written on 3x5 cards I carry everywhere.

 

[Gospel Guy]

Faith comes by hearing... hearing comes by the Word of God for those wanting to HEAR (understand, have growing revelation of) what God's Word is saying.

Those not wanting to hear what God's Word is saying... will spend their time listening to revelation that comes from this world which is in opposition to God.

He's probably seen a few folks say "I have a Cadillac, I have a Cadillac, I have a Cadillac, I have a Cadillac, I have a Cadillac, I have a Cadillac, I have a Cadillac, I have a Cadillac, I have a Cadillac, I have a Cadillac, I have a Cadillac, I have a Cadillac, I have a Cadillac, I have a Cadillac,I have a Cadillac, I have a Cadillac, I have a Cadillac, I have a Cadillac, I have a Cadillac, I have a Cadillac, I have a Cadillac, I have a Cadillac, I have a Cadillac, I have a Cadillac, I have a Cadillac, I have a Cadillac, I have a Cadillac, I have a Cadillac".... and got depressed and backslid cause they never got their Cadillac... so he discounts the practice.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"You have to say it's so when it isn't so, in order for it to become so."

Of course BEFORE you can do that IN FAITH, you have to know that God's WORD to you says it's SO, and then YOU can say it's SO too.

If you say it's SO when it isn't SO, WITHOUT KNOWING IN FAITH that it's SO - then whether it Becomes SO, or not is a crapshoot, and NOT a "Word of Faith" at all.

 

[JeremyGray36]

I believe you do need to say and believe something if you want it done sometimes before God can do it because he wants to know you have the faith to receive.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"I believe you do need to say and believe something if you want it done sometimes before God can do it because he wants to know you have the faith to receive."

So how do you "BELIEVE" - when you know you don't REALLY "Believe" at all?

God ALREADY knows whether you have FAITH or not, so you can't "prove anything" to Him.

And HE KNOWS when you don't regardless of what you "say".

 

[JeremyGray36]

I'm not talking about the faithless. We who do believe need to ask for it to be given sometimes. Those without the faith should say they do to benefit their faith because like Thomas some of us are believers when we seers.

 

[Gospel Guy]

If you say it's SO when it isn't SO, WITHOUT KNOWING IN FAITH that it's SO - then whether it Becomes SO, or not is a crapshoot, and NOT a "Word of Faith" at all.

Unless, we're talking about healing
Or, salvation for that matter.

Whaddya do when you are new at wanting to become a Christian... but you haven't been a good person and you don't "feel" like a Christian after confessing Jesus as Lord and inviting Him in to your life as Lord?

If you think it's a "crapshoot" then that would be listening to the devil who will talk ya smooth out of yer salvation which is what Jesus said he would do in Mark 4:14-20.

Sometime a fella needs to take God at His Word as though God really meant what He promised and simply hang on to it until it grows and produces faith!

 

[hhodgson]

Well... it depends on if you are making stuff up saying some things.

Nice...that's part of it. They're saying it and it sounds good but wrong.

you've waiting on His leading and He is telling you to say it...

If your saying His leading is "you" acknowledging what is already done, Yes!

Other than all this, it sounds like He is describing God calling things that be not as though they were.

Well, the quote in question, in his version, (the pastor) may be trying to SOUND like he is attempting to quote what you just quoted in (Rom. 4:27) but It's very different.

I'm getting there...


Greater works...
_____________
Harry

 

[hhodgson]

=Bob Carabbio;64307641]"I believe you do need to say and believe something if you want it done sometimes before God can do it because he wants to know you have the faith to receive."

Bob...I'm OK with the first part, "I believe you do need to say and believe something," (will add) in faith, believing, that it has already been provided for us, using healing as an example. How do we get something from God if He's already done it..? It's on the table, recieve it. Hmm... where have I heard that before?

So how do you "BELIEVE" - when you know you don't REALLY "Believe" at all?

This is really getting down to it. The first part of the "quote" says..."You have to say it's so, when it isn't so."

I'm getting there...


Greater works...
_____________
Harry

 

[hhodgson]

OK now I'm remembering. Andrew says that you can't speak yourself into believing. Charles Capps is big on teaching confession. So the quote I'm guessing came from Capps.

Another good catch...I remember Andrew saying that also. As for Capps, I have not heard him saying this "quote" the way it was quoted.

I don't remember why he believes that way.

I'm getting there...


Greater works...
_____________
Harry

 

[hhodgson]

I'll finish this up before I become re-confused...Andrew says that this quote...("You have to say it's so, when it isn't so, in order for it to become so.") is not true, and lies, and mind games. This is when I was scratching my head. What was he seeing that I wasn't?

A common misconception of faith is believing God to do something "in the future," when it has already been done. True Bible faith is beleiving "NOW" what God has already done by grace. Many Christians do not understand that there is more to life than what you can see, taste, hear, smell, and feel. That's why we see incorrect quotes like this that on the surface look good. And to them, there's simply no reality beyond the physical realm. Therefore, they don't understand people who are operating in faith, believing they are healed, regardless of symptoms. A person who's genuinely operating in faith confesses what God has already provided in the spirit.

This was Andrew's thought on the "quote." "They think as a believer, they're just saying that they are healed, WHEN they really aren't healed, in the hope that it'll become so." (some day)

The last part of the "quote" is saying... "in order for it to become so."
(to become) means change, or growing to be. The process of coming to be something.

So, not only may we have reverse thinking in this "quote." We may be looking ahead for our healing in the future that will never come with this kind of thinking.

Scott brought up Mark 11:24, that I will simplify as saying, "I believe I have recieved, when I pray." (already done)

Rom. 4:17, "We call things that are not as though they were." (already done.) (The unseen becomes seen.)

Here is what I'm thinking. This "quote" is in reverse of (Rom 4:17).

The "quote" is... It's so! (healed) and It isn't so. (not healed)
Rom. 4:17, is... are not (not healed) and they were. (healed)

Now, this is just my thinking about the reverse meaning, however, I did hear Andrew some time ago say that also.

Now, to wrap this up, the "quote" may be a little stinky, and I will stay with Rom. 4:17. "We look at the unseen that becomes seen," hows that!


Greater works...
_____________
Harry

 

[Bob Carabbio]

It's called "Holy SPirit CONVICTION of SIN" - which is the beginning of FAITH. Without it and it's "Drawing" power, you can pray, pretend to "Repent", or claim anything you wan't, and it means nothing.

BUT WHen God SHOWS YOU up front and personal, your need of Him and of Forgiveness, THEN it's TIME to surrender, REPENT, and cry out to HIM for forgiveness.

Then, since the Holy Spirit bears witness with YOUR spirit that you're a child of God, the enemy ain't talking you out of ANYTHING.

Intellectual assent "Hopes", and "Guesses".

FAITH KNOWS - it's a "Substance" and an "Evidence", after all, y'all.

 

[Optimax]

I am currently re-reading one of my books by Andrew Wommack, and for now, I'll not reveal which one. (Title could be a give away). I ran across one paragraph about "faith" that befuddled me some until I got it. Andrew "quoted" another preacher that said...

"You have to say it's so when it isn't so, in order for it to become so."

There it is (nice phrase) but, if your anything like me in my (lightening fast mind), I had to think on this one. I welcome your comments...


Greater words...
_____________
Harry

He got the saying right.

Missed the believing.

Also have to get the "believing" in the right thing.

 

[now faith]

"You have to say it's so when it isn't so, in order for it to become so."

Of course BEFORE you can do that IN FAITH, you have to know that God's WORD to you says it's SO, and then YOU can say it's SO too.

If you say it's SO when it isn't SO, WITHOUT KNOWING IN FAITH that it's SO - then whether it Becomes SO, or not is a crapshoot, and NOT a "Word of Faith" at all.

Glory!
Bob teaching Word of Faith,we knew you would get it.

 

[now faith]

________________________________________________________________

Thanks for your response Scott and now I will quote what Andrew says about this "quote" he heard from this pastor...

Andrew Wommack. "This "quote" is not true! That's just lies, deception, and mind games. (unquote)

From his book...You've Already Got It. (page 79)

My question is "Why" he beleives that way..?

Again...all comments welcome!


Greater works...
_____________
Harry

Not true is a little harsh,who ever said that got not seen mixed with not so.

But it would give our critics ammo,due to the statement inferring we create things like genies or something.

 

[hhodgson]

=now faith;64326387]Not true is a little harsh,who ever said that got not seen mixed with not so.

That's what the "quote" is saying... Well, actually, they got seen mixed with not seen... "backwards" of Rom. 4:17 "We look at things that be not as though they were." NOT, we look at things that are as though they are not." That's why Andrew said, as a believer, they're just saying that they are healed WHEN they really aren't healed, in the hope that it'll become so. (some day)

It's like one christian has to "see before they believe" (there out there), while another christian will "believe before they see." Even Thomas, one of the disciples got it backward, and he had to see, before he believed and yes, there are many doubting Thomas's in the church today. You may not see this in Word of Faith churches at all, but there were many in an AoG church I attended in the 80s. Years earlier in my youth, I came out of a church, (very small holliness), that were all doubting Thomas's. Today, this church has turned around "some", from a pastor who use to be pentecostal. Him and I got along pretty good. He knew I was pentecostal who use to be holliness.


Greater works...
_____________
Harry