Almost 36,000 people died less than 28 days after being jabbed

Bobber

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Yes, but building a conspiracy on near impossibilities and presenting it as a serious threat that induces fear among the brethren is hardly the work of the Holy Spirit.

But Carl some of those don't believe the problems for those who have taken vaccines can be categorized as near impossibilities and they think they're being a loving person sounding the alarm and being inspired by the Spirit to do so.

I do agree with your though. If I was a Pastor and a dear saint albeit not using wisdom started shaking their head insinuating no the other shouldn't have got a vaccine and insinuating they're probably going to die, I'd probably shout out as loud as could, "STOP!" I'd tell them stop that right now! Even if what you're saying is true God has never called you to come in and crush his people with a spirit of fear and terror our job here is to edify and strengthen the saints and no one, NO ONE should be leaving here with a dark cloud over their head.

If we allow our lips to impart that type of mental state, fear and terror one would have unknowingly yielded themselves to the devil...even if what they said was potentially true. So how should one handle their convictions that are different from yours. I think it's fine for one to say I have reservations about them and you can study the internet about that if you like BUT if there was something not good about the vaccines then I'm in agreement with you that you have immunity from it In Jesus Name! (based on Mark 16:17,18 plus other scriptures as well)
 
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Dave G.

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I'm sure I speak for everyone here Dave when I say we wish you continual peace and strength through your difficult days. Glad to hear you're starting to feel better and I'm sure something like this takes time. God Bless.
Thanks Bobber.
 
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Dave G.

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66% is a bit low. It’s more like 92% for Moderna and 77% for Pfizer, though a proper analysis of data for Israel puts Pfizer in the 90s also. (It’s possible that the 77% number suffers from the same problem you’ll see in the second reference below.) That’s for hospitalization or serious disease. Comparative Effectiveness of Moderna... and https://www.covid-datascience.com/p...strong-when-60-of-hospitalized-are-vaccinated
I suspect that it was pre 3rd dose numbers and after 4 months from the initial shot for Moderna, which was the first to announce losing potency between 4-6 months from the second shot. It's been a while since I looked at this stuff, honestly. I've had many other things on my mind besides shots.

I'm happy with what I did and have a layer of protection I didn't have before in case I forget to wash hands after going to the store or other public place. From there it's in Gods hands. I don't buy into all the hype from either side otherwise. When it's time for me to go home there is no stopping God.
 
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Sparagmos

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The data is from the UK Government's Office for National Statistics (ONS), and it appears in a recently released report (13th September 2021)

From Table 1 of this report, we learn that in England:

18653 deaths within 21 days of first dose
11652 deaths within 21 days of second dose
30,305 total deaths within 21 days of receiving a vaccination

And in Scotland, a separate report states that:

Between 8 December 2020 and 11 June 2021, a total of 5,522 people died within 28 days of receiving a COVID-19 vaccine in Scotland

Unfortunately I have not found any data for Wales or Northern Ireland.

So in total, almost 36,000 people in England and Scotland have died shortly after receiving a covid jab.
I’m not seeing any of those numbers in table 1, or anywhere on the page you linked. Can you tell me exactly where they came from?
 
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rambot

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But Carl some of those don't believe the problems for those who have taken vaccines can be categorized as near impossibilities and they think they're being a loving person sounding the alarm and being inspired by the Spirit to do so.
It's not that we "don't believe" it. It's that statistics BEAR it out. Statistics BEAR.it.out. The chances of being hurt by the vaccine are infintessimal and the chance of being SIGNIFICANTLY hurt by it are almost not there.
Whereas, with COVID....


If we allow our lips to impart that type of mental state, fear and terror one would have unknowingly yielded themselves to the devil...even if what they said was potentially true. So how should one handle their convictions that are different from yours. I think it's fine for one to say I have reservations about them and you can study the internet about that if you like BUT if there was something not good about the vaccines then I'm in agreement with you that you have immunity from it In Jesus Name! (based on Mark 16:17,18 plus other scriptures as well)
Because some convictions are just wrong, the most that can be done is the show the error of that conviction. With my students I have to spend a LOT of time with them getting used to the idea that it is TOTALLY fine to be wrong. It's a behaviours class and sometimes when they get questions wrong they'll flip their books, toss their desk, whathaveyou. Over the year they come to realize that being wrong means nothing IF you try to get it right. I don't care and I won't get angry.
You are wrong when you are wrong and don't reevaluate.

An antivax friend of mine posted that she was worn down by all the people "blaming her for the problem" but that she wasn't going to get the vaccine because that way she still had her character.
I mean.......
what?
What an absurd reason to not get a vaccine; because you have a position and you can't be swayed by it (that's not even character...that's just being stubborn).

My concern is that her and her partner smoke A LOT and they have 4 kids. I really hope they change their minds or at LEAST don't get into a tough spot.
 
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pitabread

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An antivax friend of mine posted that she was worn down by all the people "blaming her for the problem" but that she wasn't going to get the vaccine because that way she still had her character.
I mean.......
what?
What an absurd reason to not get a vaccine; because you have a position and you can't be swayed by it (that's not even character...that's just being stubborn).

It seems like some people never outgrew their rebellious teenage years.
 
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rambot

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Johnson thus far is one shot.

I was doing well washing hands. But I had had a series of various illnesses following my wifes death back in Dec 2020, most probably caused from stress. It took me a long time to even get up and running, out the door etc except for doc visits and meeting the pastor to drop off recorded messages for the intros to his local tv broadcasts and he was vaxxed. Anyway, I didn't want to get sick on top of that from a vaccine, maybe get a fever which in me sets off migraines which can trigger seizures. But once I got up and running again, enjoying meeting for bible study outdoors during the summer and starting to rub elbows with locals in the grocery store etc. and the variant came along with a corresponding death to the bride in that young couple I rethought my position at that time. I only got a mild headache from the vaccine and some itching with no rash. The headache was a one day deal and Tylenol reduced it. So it never came close to migraine symptoms. I have some kind of migraine disorder than can trigger seizure. The last seizure I had was with a high fever with the flu about 20 years ago or more and I really wanted to keep it that way. So it was a balancing act all along, then my wife passing, one thing after another for months on end. Then took the vaccine that seemed to have the least side effects at least initially, once I started feeling better and getting out and about more..

My wife died pretty rapidly, not feeling well for two or three days and suffered a heart attack at 1:10am Dec. 20, 2020. Nothing could be done, she died basically instantly. Oh and for anyone interested, her death certificate says the fancy medical name for heart attack, not covid. She was here at home on the couch. Called for me with a panicked voice and I got to her, about three minutes later she was gone eyes wide open looking up at the ceiling.
I'm a big hugger (another reason COVID sucks), but virtual hugs feel meaningless Dave. I am so sorry for the tragedy and struggle you have dealt with recently. I'm glad you are taking good steps to take care of your health. I hope you still get chances to spend time in bible study with other believers.
[virtual high 5]
 
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hedrick

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I suspect that it was pre 3rd dose numbers and after 4 months from the initial shot for Moderna, which was the first to announce losing potency between 4-6 months from the second shot. It's been a while since I looked at this stuff, honestly. I've had many other things on my mind besides shots.
As far as I know there is virtually no evidence that Moderna has declining effectiveness. The things Ive seen are for Pfizer. One comparison that separated them showed virtually no decline for Moderna. Comparative Effectiveness of Moderna...66 sounds like the Israeli data without correcting fir Simpson’s paradox.
 
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rambot

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As far as I know there is virtually no evidence that Moderna has declining effectiveness. The things Ive seen are for Pfizer. One comparison that separated them showed virtually no decline for Moderna. Comparative Effectiveness of Moderna...66 sounds like the Israeli data without correcting fir Simpson’s paradox.
I've herad the same. Moderna staying near 90% effective with Phizer dropping down to 66%.

Yikes...I'm sporting Phizer.
 
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Dave G.

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As far as I know there is virtually no evidence that Moderna has declining effectiveness. The things Ive seen are for Pfizer. One comparison that separated them showed virtually no decline for Moderna. Comparative Effectiveness of Moderna...66 sounds like the Israeli data without correcting fir Simpson’s paradox.
Could be Pfizer, as I said it was a while ago. But so then, why the booster shot for Moderna ? Both Pfizer and Moderna recommend 3 shots right ?
 
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Dave G.

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I'm a big hugger (another reason COVID sucks), but virtual hugs feel meaningless Dave. I am so sorry for the tragedy and struggle you have dealt with recently. I'm glad you are taking good steps to take care of your health. I hope you still get chances to spend time in bible study with other believers.
[virtual high 5]
Oh I'm busy with all that ! It's been crazy but in a good way. Thanks for the hugs ! After nearly 20 months of covid it almost seems normal that way in one sense. So I get it.
 
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returntosender

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Johnson thus far is one shot.

I was doing well washing hands. But I had had a series of various illnesses following my wifes death back in Dec 2020, most probably caused from stress. It took me a long time to even get up and running, out the door etc except for doc visits and meeting the pastor to drop off recorded messages for the intros to his local tv broadcasts and he was vaxxed. Anyway, I didn't want to get sick on top of that from a vaccine, maybe get a fever which in me sets off migraines which can trigger seizures. But once I got up and running again, enjoying meeting for bible study outdoors during the summer and starting to rub elbows with locals in the grocery store etc. and the variant came along with a corresponding death to the bride in that young couple I rethought my position at that time. I only got a mild headache from the vaccine and some itching with no rash. The headache was a one day deal and Tylenol reduced it. So it never came close to migraine symptoms. I have some kind of migraine disorder than can trigger seizure. The last seizure I had was with a high fever with the flu about 20 years ago or more and I really wanted to keep it that way. So it was a balancing act all along, then my wife passing, one thing after another for months on end. Then took the vaccine that seemed to have the least side effects at least initially, once I started feeling better and getting out and about more..

My wife died pretty rapidly, not feeling well for two or three days and suffered a heart attack at 1:10am Dec. 20, 2020. Nothing could be done, she died basically instantly. Oh and for anyone interested, her death certificate says the fancy medical name for heart attack, not covid. She was here at home on the couch. Called for me with a panicked voice and I got to her, about three minutes later she was gone eyes wide open looking up at the ceiling.
I am so sorry!
God bless you and hold you close.
 
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hedrick

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Could be Pfizer, as I said it was a while ago. But so then, why the booster shot for Moderna ? Both Pfizer and Moderna recommend 3 shots right ?
Yes. But the evidence Pfizer presented to the FDA was less than stellar, and I believe Moderna has less. We’ll see in a couple of weeks when the FDA reviews their application.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Hi there,

This may be helpful...

Here are the stats relating to deaths from any cause monthly in New Zealand and the impact, if any, from the Pfizer Vacc rollout beginning Feb 19 2021

Jan to Aug

2832 2286 2634 2856 3072 2874 3540 3099 2019

2724 2472 2781 2625 2640 2817 2859 2727 2020

2847 2502 2895 2679 2925 3024 2021

This reveals a less than one death per day increase during the first 4 months of the vaccine roll out compared to 2019 before Covid hit and lockdowns started...

So far the stats are only available to June.

There is no indication of massive death increase claimed by some.

Links...

New Zealand's latest vaccine data charted

Births and deaths: Year ended June 2021 | Stats NZ
 
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Zoii

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The data is from the UK Government's Office for National Statistics (ONS), and it appears in a recently released report (13th September 2021)

From Table 1 of this report, we learn that in England:

18653 deaths within 21 days of first dose
11652 deaths within 21 days of second dose
30,305 total deaths within 21 days of receiving a vaccination

And in Scotland, a separate report states that:

Between 8 December 2020 and 11 June 2021, a total of 5,522 people died within 28 days of receiving a COVID-19 vaccine in Scotland

Unfortunately I have not found any data for Wales or Northern Ireland.

So in total, almost 36,000 people in England and Scotland have died shortly after receiving a covid jab.
So what... Where's the evidence to show it was BECAUSE of the vaccine, and not just part of the nation's death rate
 
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JustSomeBloke

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Hi there,

This may be helpful...

Here are the stats relating to deaths from any cause monthly in New Zealand and the impact, if any, from the Pfizer Vacc rollout beginning Feb 19 2021

Jan to Aug

2832 2286 2634 2856 3072 2874 3540 3099 2019

2724 2472 2781 2625 2640 2817 2859 2727 2020

2847 2502 2895 2679 2925 3024 2021

This reveals a less than one death per day increase during the first 4 months of the vaccine roll out compared to 2019 before Covid hit and lockdowns started...

So far the stats are only available to June.

There is no indication of massive death increase claimed by some.

Links...

New Zealand's latest vaccine data charted

Births and deaths: Year ended June 2021 | Stats NZ
Thank you very much for posting those data sources. New Zealand is definitely a very interesting and worthwhile case study, because it is one of the few (only?) populations that has very low covid deaths, but has also decided on a policy of mass vaccination. From that point of view, it is relatively easy to identify any excess deaths arising from the mass vaccination programme.

The data that you have posted is very useful and interesting, but unfortunately I don't think that your analysis process is correct. Usually the standard method for determining excess deaths is to calculate the difference between the previous five year average, and the year that you wish to determine excess deaths for. And if you search online, then you will find that is what is usually done. Certainly that is the method employed by the UK Office for National Statistics (ONS), which is the official UK government agency for processing statistical data.

If we look at your New Zealand data that way, then I'm afraid that it consistently shows excess deaths for 2021, compared to the 5 year average for 2016-2020. In particular, the excess deaths become much higher in March, which is around one month after the mass vaccination programme started. I'm not sure if New Zealand prioritised older people, but if they did, then it looks like a lot of older people died in New Zealand around one month after the vaccination roll out began. Furthermore, taking an average for the period from January to June shows an average of 160 excess deaths a month.

new_zealand_vaccination_excess_deaths.png


I realise that you have a lot invested in believing the New Zealand government, that you think covering up vaccination deaths is impossible, and that you have previously used bible verses to try and silence me. But I really do think you need to believe the data on this, and unfortunately it's showing excess deaths after vaccination.

I also realise that there will almost certainly be some other people trying to discredit what I've done and silence me, because their belief in the vaccines is so strong and so dogmatic. And I regret that I'm not interested, unless you can prove that my method of comparing to the previous five year average is incorrect and invalid.
 
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Philip_B

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I also realise that there will almost certainly be some other people trying to discredit what I've done and silence me, because their belief in the vaccines is so strong and so dogmatic. And I regret that I'm not interested, unless you can prove that my method of comparing to the previous five year average is incorrect and invalid.
Look, I think that is a nearly, but not quite.

On the data in the table, there is a rise in deaths for the six months Jan-Jun of about 2.1% per year. On that basis you would have expected the deaths per month normally in 2021 to be 2733 give or take, where as they were 2812. So the excess over the anticipated might be more like 79.

Establishing causality is much more difficult. What else was going on? Most health systems were experiencing some concern about what might happen, and the population was more cautious about attending to usual medical treatments to reduce potential exposure to the virus and the like. There is certainly a concern on the part of health in Australia that many have reduced their usual health system interactions and so there have been deaths outside of covid-19 that have reflected the concern about covid-19. I cant comment on NZ especially, however I believe if you start really looking at the background, you cannot directly attribute the cause as you do.

I am certainly not inclined to silence of discredit you, however I do not think that you have logically established causality. I think there are a wide range of health issues that have come from the pandemic, including the social and mental health aspects that we have hardly touched on. How many people have suffered and perhaps even died as a result of social isolation? How would you even assess that?

A recent poll in Australia for preferred PM (where the expected outcomes were Morrison or Albanese) Ardern surged to the lead.
 
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JustSomeBloke

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Look, I think that is a nearly, but not quite.

On the data in the table, there is a rise in deaths for the six months Jan-Jun of about 2.1% per year. On that basis you would have expected the deaths per month normally in 2021 to be 2733 give or take, where as they were 2812. So the excess over the anticipated might be more like 79.
No! No! And thrice no!

I don't know where you are getting 2.1% a year from. But I do note that 2016 had an unusually low number of deaths from January to June. And 2019 from January to June had an unusually high number of deaths (although it still didn't come anywhere near as high as 2021).

And that is precisely why there is an established method for determining excess deaths, of comparing to the average for the last five years. And that is exactly what I've done. Your desperate attempt to pick holes is only proving that you don't understand the problem of noise in data sets. The comparison to a five year average is specifically designed to filter out the noise. But for some reason you think you know better than professional government statisticians who use the five year average comparison method.

Establishing causality is much more difficult. What else was going on? Most health systems were experiencing some concern about what might happen, and the population was more cautious about attending to usual medical treatments to reduce potential exposure to the virus and the like. There is certainly a concern on the part of health in Australia that many have reduced their usual health system interactions and so there have been deaths outside of covid-19 that have reflected the concern about covid-19. I cant comment on NZ especially, however I believe if you start really looking at the background, you cannot directly attribute the cause as you do.

I am certainly not inclined to silence of discredit you, however I do not think that you have logically established causality. I think there are a wide range of health issues that have come from the pandemic, including the social and mental health aspects that we have hardly touched on. How many people have suffered and perhaps even died as a result of social isolation? How would you even assess that?

A recent poll in Australia for preferred PM (where the expected outcomes were Morrison or Albanese) Ardern surged to the lead.
New Zealand was (and remains) pretty much shut off from the rest of the world. According to Worldometer, they've had just 4095 cases and only 27 deaths. There is very little reason for the Kiwis to be alarmed about covid. So the text above is just more desperation from you.
 
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