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Almost 36,000 people died less than 28 days after being jabbed

Discussion in 'News & Current Events (Articles Required)' started by JustSomeBloke, Sep 19, 2021.

  1. JustSomeBloke

    JustSomeBloke Hello AK47 Supporter

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    The data is from the UK Government's Office for National Statistics (ONS), and it appears in a recently released report (13th September 2021)

    From Table 1 of this report, we learn that in England:

    18653 deaths within 21 days of first dose
    11652 deaths within 21 days of second dose
    30,305 total deaths within 21 days of receiving a vaccination

    And in Scotland, a separate report states that:

    Between 8 December 2020 and 11 June 2021, a total of 5,522 people died within 28 days of receiving a COVID-19 vaccine in Scotland

    Unfortunately I have not found any data for Wales or Northern Ireland.

    So in total, almost 36,000 people in England and Scotland have died shortly after receiving a covid jab.
     
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  2. jacks

    jacks Er Victus Supporter

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    From your link:
    Table 1: There were 640 deaths involving COVID-19 of people who had received both vaccination doses
    Count of deaths involving COVID-19 and percentage of all deaths by vaccination status, England, deaths occurring between 2 January and 2 July 2021
    Vaccination status Deaths involving
    COVID-19
    Non-COVID-19
    deaths
    COVID-19 deaths
    as percent of
    all deaths
    All deaths regardless of vaccination status
    51,281 214,701 19.3
    Unvaccinated
    38,964 65,170 37.4
    Deaths within 21 days of first dose
    4,388 14,265 23.5
    Deaths 21 days or more after first dose
    7,289 66,533 9.9
    Deaths within 21 days of second dose
    182 11,470 1.6
    Deaths 21 days or more after second dose
    458 57,263 0.8
    Source: Office for National Statistics – National Immunisation Management Service, NHS Test and Trace

    Seems like this is making a great case for getting two doses of the vaccine and then waiting 3 weeks.
     
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  3. spiritfilledjm

    spiritfilledjm Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I've worked in a healthcare field where one of my jobs was to collect information on adverse events. An adverse event is anything that happens that may not be normal for a patient on any type of medication. For instance, one can be on any sort of medication, go on an airplane ride and experience air sickness. Now, they always get sick while in flight this is not the first time even though they had it before they started the medication. This would be an adverse event even though, obviously, it's not related to the medication. The fact that the issue continued afterwards still makes it reportable.

    Just like with this report, not that I'm attempting to argue it or discredit it, however, it is very similar to the arguments about reporting COVID deaths for someone that had COVID within 28 days of dying in a car wreck or getting shot or had a heart attack (with a history of heart problems) or cancer and it still counting as a COVID related death. If someone dies after receiving the COVID vaccine for any reason, it would be included in this statistic.

    TL;DR: Correlation does not equal causation.
     
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  4. Goonie

    Goonie Not so Mystic Mog. Supporter

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    And when you are giving vaccines accordingly to age, oldest most vulnerable first, the stats are probably not saying what anti-vaxxers think.
     
  5. JustSomeBloke

    JustSomeBloke Hello AK47 Supporter

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    Sadly, another 57,721 died more than 21 days after being jabbed for the second time.

    I agree. But when any death within 28 days of a positive covid test is regarded as a covid death, then for fairness, a similar standard should apply to reporting of post-vaccination deaths.

    And that could result in some deaths being reported as both a covid death and a vaccination death. But that is entirely logical, because the covid vaccines cause spike proteins in the human body, which can result in a positive covid test.
     
  6. Dave G.

    Dave G. Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. And so what would the normal death rate be minus the shots in that same period of time and are these stats above average ? It may have nothing to do with the shots,they might have croaked anyway.
     
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  7. JustSomeBloke

    JustSomeBloke Hello AK47 Supporter

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    I agree. But there are double standards at work here. Deaths less than 28 days after a positive covid test are considered to be a covid death. But the same standard is not applied to deaths less than 28 days after a vaccination. It stinks!
     
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  8. Dave G.

    Dave G. Well-Known Member

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    What really stinks is in either case not listing the normal average for deaths. Flu deaths being down during covid, heart attack deaths being down during covid. Things getting listed as vaguely caused by covid that maybe never were. My daughter in law who works as intake for patients coming in through the emergency room has told us as a family that for a while there everything was a covid death. You might have come in with a heart attack and died and covid was credited for it. Talk about stinks and trumped up charges !
     
  9. spiritfilledjm

    spiritfilledjm Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Exactly. I agree. As the old adage goes, if the shoe fits.

    I'm just attempting to report facts about the process of how death reporting occurs overall and emphasizing that correlation does not equal causation. These reports are statistics and little more. They mean nothing until proof can be found that the cause of the issue is due to the medication, this is a general rule when it comes to statistics on medicines and adverse events. The reason why pharmaceutical companies collect this information is to keep an eye on it, see how often it occurs, and investigate as necessary to see if there was an unintended side effect that they missed, or ignored in some cases, through all the years of development since the amount of people and animals in trials and during testing is minuscule compared to the amount that starts taking it shortly after FDA approval and release to the general public.
     
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  10. KCfromNC

    KCfromNC Regular Member

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    It might stink for propping up anti-vaxx propaganda, but a) is it actually happening and b) is it wrong in any objective way? That is, is the only criteria for reporting covid deaths actually proximity to a positive test? I know it isn't where I'm from.
     
  11. jacks

    jacks Er Victus Supporter

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    Deaths Unvaccinated:
    Covid Deaths: 38,964 Non Covid Deaths: 65,170 Percent Covid Deaths: 37.4

    Deaths 21 days or more after second dose:
    Covid Deaths: 458 Non Covid Deaths 57,263 Percent Covid Deaths: .08

    Still looks like two jabs is the way to go.
     
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  12. spiritfilledjm

    spiritfilledjm Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I understand and largely agree. I just want to emphasize that it all goes into the number regardless. This does cause the number to be puffed up obviously. For instance, my father died of a heart attack but was also, a few months before, diagnosed with liver cancer. It was not cancer that ultimately killed him but it would still be counted as a cancer death, just like it counted as a death due to heart attack and heart failure since he lived with it for 20 years. He was also a diabetic and obese. All of the diseases, at least, would be listed, and were listed, on his death record as being causes of his death.

    As far as flu goes, if one tests positive for flu but also had a recent positive test for COVID, it would be both...however, I doubt they're testing for flu first at this point and if they test for COVID and it's positive, I can see why they wouldn't also test for flu. However, this would also not be smart because there are medications that can be given for flu.
     
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  13. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    4.57M Doses in NewZealand and only one COVID vaccine related death...
     
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  14. pitabread

    pitabread Well-Known Member

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    In 2019, approximately half a million died in England. That's roughly 1370 per day. That means over a 21 day period, you'd expect almost ~29,000 deaths on average.

    Since we're not seeing some massive surge in deaths following mass vaccination, I guess that means the vaccine is safe to get, doesn't it?
     
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  15. Philip_B

    Philip_B grace upon grace Supporter

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    CovidDeathsFollowing Vaccination.jpg

    Yes there were 18,653 deaths within 21 days of the first dose. Of these 14,265 were not Covid-19 related. Given the size of the vaccine rollout in the UK, this may well accord with the usual statistic for mortality in the England. I do not have that info. What this chart tells us is that in the unvaccinated population Covid-19 is responsible for 37.4% of all deaths and and the fully vaccinated population Covid--19 accounts for .8% of all deaths. That would suggest to me at least that the vaccine if effective.
     
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  16. pitabread

    pitabread Well-Known Member

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    People keep forgetting that miscounting of causes of deaths can go both ways. E.g. it's possible that a lot of deaths caused by COVID-19 were *not* counted as such.

    This is also why when analyzing the true impact of the pandemic, comparisons involving excess mortality rates are used. Early on the in the pandemic, it looked the COVID-19 deaths were actually being understated not overstated for that reason alone. IOW, the pandemic was worse than was being reported.
     
  17. JustSomeBloke

    JustSomeBloke Hello AK47 Supporter

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    The problem I have with all of this, is that normally when a new medical treatment is created and trialled, a few deaths or serious adverse effects is all it takes for the whole trial to be halted. But with covid vaccines, they just plough on regardless, and then roll them out to entire populations.

    I'm aware that pro-vaxxers are always trying to discredit VAERS, and say 'anyone can file a report', and 'it's all made up with fake reports by anti-vaxxers'. But the UK Yellow Card system also shows huge numbers of deaths and adverse effects.

    So we have a system where covid deaths may be being massively inflated, while vaccine deaths are being hugely underestimated, and no serious analysis of the adverse effects reports are being undertaken. Couple that with a pro-vaxx MSM who never question any of this, and a censorious BigTech who delete anything that is vaccine-sceptic, and it's a recipe for disaster.

    All depends on the metrics for measuring what a covid or vaccination death is. And that's really what this thread is about - the fraud being perpetrated around covid and vaccination death statistics.
     
  18. KCfromNC

    KCfromNC Regular Member

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    For people who don't want to wade through the web site, "huge numbers" means low hundreds of reports each for a few serious side effects out of about 100 million doses given. Deaths coincident with the vaccines were about a 10th of that.
     
  19. spiritfilledjm

    spiritfilledjm Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Disclaimer: Just so there's no confusion, let me start this off by briefly explaining that I am not entirely pro-covid vaccination. This is because I am against even the possibility of being forced to let anyone who has no business knowing as they are not an HCP, know my medical information in any way, shape, or form and nothing to do with the vaccination itself. At the moment, I am unvaccinated (partially due to it not being 90 days since I received an antibody infusion while I was infected last month) and still heavily thinking about whether to get it or not. Folks, please don't let that last comment derail the thread, we're talking about the report, not my personal beliefs. I have no real issue with the vaccine itself.

    To respond to that part of your comment: That's just it though, both should be massively inflated by default, especially where deaths are concerned. Every death that occurs within, in this case, 28 days after the jabs should be reported as an adverse event and death correlated with the vaccine as well. Now these statistics may be underreported by the media since it would strengthen the anti-vax movement and the media has its own narrative to push out but that shouldn't change the statistics themselves, that would just keep it out of general knowledge. Every death that occurs after the COVID vaccination, within whatever period of time they chose, should be reported as a possible reaction to the COVID vaccine and each case looked at to see if there is merit to it (such as death with no underlying cause) or is not actually related to it (such as death that occurs due to murder).

    EDIT: added "by the media" to not confuse that the deaths aren't being reported but that the media may not be reporting the statistics. This in and of itself is a hypothesis and not an accusation, to be clear.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2021
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  20. dqhall

    dqhall Well-Known Member Supporter

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    They died of heart attacks, stroke, cancer, auto accidents, hospital infections, sudden death, gun shot wounds, etc.
     
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