Almighty God the Son, second person of the Godhead also called Michael

[BobRyan]

First it must be noted that infinite God has a number of names and roles.

In the case of God the Son -- he is the "Son of man" in Daniel 7 and often in the Gospels.
He is also the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53
Unto us is given ... "the Prince of Peace" Isaiah 9
He is called our "High Priest" Hebrews 8:1
Creator of heaven and earth in John 1 and in Colossians 1 (And Heb 11:1)
He is the incarnate God in the Gospels

God the Holy Spirit - appears in the form of a dove at the baptism of Christ - but surely God is not "a dove".

God the Holy Spirit - appears as tongues of fire in Acts 2 - but surely God is not a fiery hot gas in the shape of tongues -- it is merely an appearance He takes for a specific purpose.

Michael as leader of the armies of heaven is another name and role that God the Son takes

God takes on the appearance "of a man" in Genesis 18 along with 2 angels.

--=================================

Check this SDA author out. ( I checked both my feet out, no gunshot holes);
Who Is Michael The Archangel? | Free Book Library | Amazing Facts

The independent ministry link you point to -- says this.

"There is another verse in Daniel 8:25 where the "Prince of princes" is mentioned. Again, the cosmic conflict is being played out with Christ on one side and the devil on the other, with humanity serving as the battlefield. "Prince of princes" is actually the same term that is translated "prince of the host" in verse 11. This is similar to "Lord of lords" (Psalm 136:3), "God of gods" (Deuteronomy 10:17), and "King of kings" (Revelation 19:16). All these are titles of deity. He is even referred to as "Messiah the Prince" (Daniel 9:25)."

In that quote he says that "God of gods", 'Lord of Lords", "King of Kings" is also known as Michael. I don't know of any Mormon or JW that claims that about Michael because they all say that such titles are titles for almighty God - and they reject Michael as being almighty God.

SDAs by contrast - do claim that God the Son - is almighty God and another name for him is Michael. Just as in Genesis 18 "three MEN" show up -- and later we are told that one is YHWH and the other two are really angels. There is no question but that God has the ability to appear in that form if He so chooses but that does not mean that God is a "mere man".

Sadly your gross equivocations glossed over all the details and creatively suggested that the SDA, Mormon, and JW view of the identity of Michael is the same. How sad. Even your own link does not back you up in that regard.

Not the topic of this thread - but if you want to start such a thread topic...

 

[EJ M]

EJM wrote;
Sadly, the SDA, Mormon, and JW churches claim somehow Michael the archangel morphed into Jesus Christ.

Bob Ryan said;
Sadly some folks do not look at the details enough to know that the statement above is not true regarding Seventh-day Adventists.

Now Bob Ryan starts a new thread entitled,
Almighty God the Son, second person of the Godhead also called Michael.
Rather than going through the OT trying to prove Michael morphed into Jesus,
Please expound on Hebrews 1, where God's inspired word makes it abundantly clear, The Lord Jesus Christ is not an angel, never was, never will be.
In fact, Jesus created Michael, Col 1:15-17;
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
1 Thess 4:15-18; Michael will announce Jesus' second coming;
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Jude, verse 9;
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
Why would Michael say "The Lord rebuke thee" if he were Lord? (Which Jesus is!)
The name Michael means, "He who is like God"
Jesus is not like God, He is God.
I remain worried that my SDA friends are Michaelians, not Christians.
2 Cor 11:3-4;
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Not trying to flame or goad, just proclaiming the truth.

 

[YeshuaFan]

First it must be noted that infinite God has a number of names and roles.

In the case of God the Son -- he is the "Son of man" in Daniel 7 and often in the Gospels.
He is also the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53
He is the incarnate God in the Gospels

God the Holy Spirit - appears in the form of a dove at the baptism of Christ - but surely God is not "a dove".

God the Holy Spirit - appears as tongues of fire in Acts 2 - but surely God is not a fiery hot gas in the shape of tongues -- it is merely an appearance He takes for a specific purpose.

Michael as leader of the armies of heaven is another name and role that God the Son takes

God takes on the appearance "of a man" in Genesis 18 along with 2 angels.

--=================================


The independent ministry link you point to -- says this.

"There is another verse in Daniel 8:25 where the "Prince of princes" is mentioned. Again, the cosmic conflict is being played out with Christ on one side and the devil on the other, with humanity serving as the battlefield. "Prince of princes" is actually the same term that is translated "prince of the host" in verse 11. This is similar to "Lord of lords" (Psalm 136:3), "God of gods" (Deuteronomy 10:17), and "King of kings" (Revelation 19:16). All these are titles of deity. He is even referred to as "Messiah the Prince" (Daniel 9:25)."

In that quote he says that "God of gods", 'Lord of Lords", "King of Kings" is also known as Michael. I don't know of any Mormon or JW that claims that about Michael because they all say that such titles are titles for almighty God - and they reject Michael as being almighty God.

SDAs by contrast - do claim that God the Son - is almighty God and another name for him is Michael. Just as in Genesis 18 "three MEN" show up -- and later we are told that one is YHWH and the other two are really angels. There is no question but that God has the ability to appear in that form if He so chooses but that does not mean that God is a "mere man".

Sadly your gross equivocations glossed over all the details and creatively suggested that the SDA, Mormon, and JW view of the identity of Michael is the same. How sad. Even your own link does not back you up in that regard.

Not the topic of this thread - but if you want to start such a thread topic...

Jesus is the Son of God, while Michael is the archangel, 2 separate persons!

 

[BobRyan]

Jesus is the Son of God, while Michael is the archangel, 2 separate persons!

The text says "Michael and HIS angels" - Rev 12
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Rev 19
11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations.

It is Christ (God the Son) and Satan that are at war against each other. And the angels are with them either on the side of God the Son or the side of the dragon.

Hebrews -
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Angels "of God" are the Angels identified as being the Angels of Michael.

Isaiah 9
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Dan 10:21 21 However, I will tell you what is inscribed in the writing of truth. Yet there is no one who stands firmly with me against these forces except Michael your prince.

Daniel 12
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book

Heb 8:1
Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens,

 

[EJ M]

The text says "Michael and HIS angels" - Rev 12
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

It is Christ (God the Son) and Satan that are at war against each other. And the angels are with them either on the side of God the Son or the side of the dragon.

Hebrews -
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Angels "of God" are the Angels identified as being the Angels of Michael.

Isaiah 9
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Dan 10:21 21 However, I will tell you what is inscribed in the writing of truth. Yet there is no one who stands firmly with me against these forces except Michael your prince.

Daniel 12
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book

Heb 8:1
Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens,

Heb 1:1-6
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

All the angels commanded to worship Jesus Christ would include Michael.
Jesus is not Michael, Michael is not Jesus, nor is he God. He is the archangel of God.
What is to be gained by the attempt to downsize Jesus to an angel?
Why not just accept the scriptural truth, Jesus is King of Kings, Lord of Lords?

 

[BobRyan]

First it must be noted that infinite God has a number of names and roles.

In the case of God the Son -- he is the "Son of man" in Daniel 7 and often in the Gospels.
He is also the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53
Unto us is given ... "the Prince of Peace" Isaiah 9
He is called our "High Priest" Hebrews 8:1
He is the incarnate God in the Gospels
And in this thread we see that another name and role He takes is - Michael

God the Holy Spirit - appears in the form of a dove at the baptism of Christ - but surely God is not "a dove".

God the Holy Spirit - appears as tongues of fire in Acts 2 - but surely God is not a fiery hot gas in the shape of tongues -- it is merely an appearance He takes for a specific purpose.
(clearly God is not being downsized to fire here)

Michael as leader of the armies of heaven is another name and role that God the Son takes

God takes on the appearance "of a man" in Genesis 18 along with 2 angels. (clearly God is not being "downsized to a man" in Genesis 18)

What is to be gained by the attempt to downsize Jesus to an angel?
Why not just accept the scriptural truth, Jesus is King of Kings, Lord of Lords?

The text says "Michael and HIS angels" - Rev 12
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Rev 19
11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations.

It is Christ (God the Son) and Satan that are at war against each other. And the angels are with them either on the side of God the Son or the side of the dragon.

Hebrews -
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Angels "of God" are the Angels identified as being the Angels of Michael.

Isaiah 9
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Dan 10:21 21 However, I will tell you what is inscribed in the writing of truth. Yet there is no one who stands firmly with me against these forces except Michael your prince.

Daniel 12
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book

Heb 8:1
Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens,

 

[EJ M]

First it must be noted that infinite God has a number of names and roles.

In the case of God the Son -- he is the "Son of man" in Daniel 7 and often in the Gospels.
He is also the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53
Unto us is given ... "the Prince of Peace" Isaiah 9
He is called our "High Priest" Hebrews 8:1
He is the incarnate God in the Gospels
And in this thread we see that another name and role He takes is - Michael

God the Holy Spirit - appears in the form of a dove at the baptism of Christ - but surely God is not "a dove".

God the Holy Spirit - appears as tongues of fire in Acts 2 - but surely God is not a fiery hot gas in the shape of tongues -- it is merely an appearance He takes for a specific purpose.
(clearly God is not being downsized to fire here)

Michael as leader of the armies of heaven is another name and role that God the Son takes

God takes on the appearance "of a man" in Genesis 18 along with 2 angels. (clearly God is not being "downsized to a man" in Genesis 18)





The text says "Michael and HIS angels" - Rev 12
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Rev 19
11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations.

It is Christ (God the Son) and Satan that are at war against each other. And the angels are with them either on the side of God the Son or the side of the dragon.

Hebrews -
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Angels "of God" are the Angels identified as being the Angels of Michael.
Michael is not God, Jesus Christ is.

Isaiah 9
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Clearly Jesus Christ, not Michael.

Dan 10:21 21 However, I will tell you what is inscribed in the writing of truth. Yet there is no one who stands firmly with me against these forces except Michael your prince.
Michael is the prince of Israel, Jesus is God.

Daniel 12
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book

Heb 8:1
Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens,

I believe Heb:1 is so clear
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Michael is like God, Jesus Christ is God.

 

[BobRyan]

First it must be noted that infinite God has a number of names and roles.

In the case of God the Son -- he is the "Son of man" in Daniel 7 and often in the Gospels.
He is also the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53
Unto us is given ... "the Prince of Peace" Isaiah 9
He is called our "High Priest" Hebrews 8:1
Creator of heaven and earth in John 1 and in Colossians 1 (And Heb 11:1)
He is the incarnate God in the Gospels
And in this thread we see that another name and role He takes is - Michael

God the Holy Spirit - appears in the form of a dove at the baptism of Christ - but surely God is not "a dove".

God the Holy Spirit - appears as tongues of fire in Acts 2 - but surely God is not a fiery hot gas in the shape of tongues -- it is merely an appearance He takes for a specific purpose.
(clearly God is not being downsized to fire here)

Michael as leader of the armies of heaven is another name and role that God the Son takes

God takes on the appearance "of a man" in Genesis 18 along with 2 angels. (clearly God is not being "downsized to a man" in Genesis 18)

What is to be gained by the attempt to downsize Jesus to an angel?
Why not just accept the scriptural truth, Jesus is King of Kings, Lord of Lords?

The text says "Michael and HIS angels" - Rev 12
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Rev 19
11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations.

It is Christ (God the Son) and Satan that are at war against each other. And the angels are with them either on the side of God the Son or the side of the dragon.

Hebrews -
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Angels "of God" are the Angels identified as being the Angels of Michael.

Isaiah 9
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Dan 10:21 21 However, I will tell you what is inscribed in the writing of truth. Yet there is no one who stands firmly with me against these forces except Michael your prince.

Daniel 12
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book

Heb 8:1
Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens,

I believe Heb:1 is so clear
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; ....

agreed.

Creator of heaven and earth in John 1 and in Colossians 1 (And Heb 11:1)

 

[reddogs]

First it must be noted that infinite God has a number of names and roles.

In the case of God the Son -- he is the "Son of man" in Daniel 7 and often in the Gospels.
He is also the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53
Unto us is given ... "the Prince of Peace" Isaiah 9
He is called our "High Priest" Hebrews 8:1
Creator of heaven and earth in John 1 and in Colossians 1 (And Heb 11:1)
He is the incarnate God in the Gospels

God the Holy Spirit - appears in the form of a dove at the baptism of Christ - but surely God is not "a dove".

God the Holy Spirit - appears as tongues of fire in Acts 2 - but surely God is not a fiery hot gas in the shape of tongues -- it is merely an appearance He takes for a specific purpose.

Michael as leader of the armies of heaven is another name and role that God the Son takes

God takes on the appearance "of a man" in Genesis 18 along with 2 angels.

--=================================


The independent ministry link you point to -- says this.

"There is another verse in Daniel 8:25 where the "Prince of princes" is mentioned. Again, the cosmic conflict is being played out with Christ on one side and the devil on the other, with humanity serving as the battlefield. "Prince of princes" is actually the same term that is translated "prince of the host" in verse 11. This is similar to "Lord of lords" (Psalm 136:3), "God of gods" (Deuteronomy 10:17), and "King of kings" (Revelation 19:16). All these are titles of deity. He is even referred to as "Messiah the Prince" (Daniel 9:25)."

In that quote he says that "God of gods", 'Lord of Lords", "King of Kings" is also known as Michael. I don't know of any Mormon or JW that claims that about Michael because they all say that such titles are titles for almighty God - and they reject Michael as being almighty God.

SDAs by contrast - do claim that God the Son - is almighty God and another name for him is Michael. Just as in Genesis 18 "three MEN" show up -- and later we are told that one is YHWH and the other two are really angels. There is no question but that God has the ability to appear in that form if He so chooses but that does not mean that God is a "mere man".

Sadly your gross equivocations glossed over all the details and creatively suggested that the SDA, Mormon, and JW view of the identity of Michael is the same. How sad. Even your own link does not back you up in that regard.

Not the topic of this thread - but if you want to start such a thread topic...

The understanding of Christ pre-incarnate is very hard for some people and even controversial, as people get confused with the "Title" which refer to Jesus. Now, Jesus is NOT a created Angel. He is fully Man, fully God, the Messiah, the Christ, and Lord and Saviour. Jesus is Eternal. Jesus was never created. Jesus is Eternal as the Father and Holy Spirit are Eternal. Jesus has always been and always will be.

Jesus is the angel of the LORD, the angel of God, the Archangel Michael, who appeared time and again in the Old Testament to speak directly to His people, prior to the incarnation.

Michael is just another "Title" to refer to Jesus just as Lamb and Lion is. Michael is not a created Angel. Michael the Archangel is only a name or title.

First let's look at the phrase 'angel of the LORD' in the story of Moses and the burning bush

Exodus 3:2
And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.


Now look at the following verses and who is identified as being in the bush?

Exo 3:4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
Exo 3:6 Moreover he said,*I am* the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Notice that the 'angel of the LORD' is really none other than God Himself and we have more...

Acts 7:29-31
King James Version (KJV)
29Then fled Moses at this saying, and was a stranger in the land of Madian, where he begat two sons.
30And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush.
31When Moses saw it, he wondered at the sight: and as he drew near to behold it, the voice of the LORD came unto him,

Then we have the following exchange...

Exodus 3:14
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

and who but Christ says this...

John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.

Jesus Christ had just identified Himself as the One who is the God of the Old Testament patriarchs, who was present in the burning bush speaking to Moses and the Jews knew exactly what Jesus meant as seen in what happens.

John 8:57-59
King James Version (KJV)
57Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

 

[Thistle0Sifter]

For me there are only 2 passages needed to demonstrate/substantiate that Christ is Michael
1 - Revelation 22:8-9
2 - Joshua 5:13-15
Note: the Being there before Joshua did not forbid Joshua to worship Him

 

[Gary K]

This is not direct evidence of Jesus being Michael, but it points to God being called an angel.

All throughout the Bible whenever a man attempted to worship an angel the angel said not to bow down or worship him for only God is worthy of worship. Every time but one.

In the story of Judges 13 we see an angel accepting an offering from Manoah and his wife. As we are to worship no one but God, and angels have time and again identified themselves as our "fellow servants", the "angel" in this story can only be God. Otherwise he would have not accepted worship or a sacrifice. To have done so would have been the equivalent of a created being accepting worship of himself rather than God. It would have been tantamount to a declaration of war against God by placing himself on the same level as God which was Lucifer's downfall.

Therefore, this angel could have only been God. And the only God that communicated with mankind in the OT was Jesus. He is, and always has been, our only mediator and means of communication with the Father.

 

[Dave-W]

For me there are only 2 passages needed to demonstrate/substantiate that Christ is Michael
1 - Revelation 22:8-9
2 - Joshua 5:13-15
Note: the Being there before Joshua did not forbid Joshua to worship Him

The being addressing Joshua was the Lord. A “christrophany,” or a pre-incarnation physical appearance of our Lord. Also, the third angel that met with Abraham before the destruction of Sodom and the angel that wrestled with Jacob.

But there is no evidence that any of these appearances were “Michael.”

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

The being addressing Joshua was the Lord. A “christrophany,” or a pre-incarnation physical appearance of our Lord. Also, the third angel that met with Abraham before the destruction of Sodom and the angel that wrestled with Jacob.

But there is no evidence that any of these appearances were “Michael.”

There is the passage in Daniel 12 that says that "at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people:" we kniow this passage is referring to the last days. If we understand that Christ is now seated on the right hand of the Father, then the one who stands up at the end would be Christ, or Michael as He was known pre-Jesus. The term "great prince" would also fit with Christ's title of Prince of Peace.

 

[Thistle0Sifter]

The being addressing Joshua was the Lord. A “christrophany,” or a pre-incarnation physical appearance of our Lord. Also, the third angel that met with Abraham before the destruction of Sodom and the angel that wrestled with Jacob.

But there is no evidence that any of these appearances were “Michael.”

hrm.....
....aside from the facts that that being was the commander of the Lord's army and also accepted worship.....

and:
"“christrophany,” no need for a special term (else all appearances of the Son in a body were thus), It simply WAS the Lord, in body, the Son specifically, in His true/original (Heavenly) form.
Being the commander of the army of the Lord AND accepting worship could be no other than Michael AND Christ. Pure logic reduces to be unable to be any other.

 

[JLB777]

First it must be noted that infinite God has a number of names and roles.

In the case of God the Son -- he is the "Son of man" in Daniel 7 and often in the Gospels.
He is also the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53
Unto us is given ... "the Prince of Peace" Isaiah 9
He is called our "High Priest" Hebrews 8:1
Creator of heaven and earth in John 1 and in Colossians 1 (And Heb 11:1)
He is the incarnate God in the Gospels

God the Holy Spirit - appears in the form of a dove at the baptism of Christ - but surely God is not "a dove".

God the Holy Spirit - appears as tongues of fire in Acts 2 - but surely God is not a fiery hot gas in the shape of tongues -- it is merely an appearance He takes for a specific purpose.

Michael as leader of the armies of heaven is another name and role that God the Son takes

God takes on the appearance "of a man" in Genesis 18 along with 2 angels.

--=================================


The independent ministry link you point to -- says this.

"There is another verse in Daniel 8:25 where the "Prince of princes" is mentioned. Again, the cosmic conflict is being played out with Christ on one side and the devil on the other, with humanity serving as the battlefield. "Prince of princes" is actually the same term that is translated "prince of the host" in verse 11. This is similar to "Lord of lords" (Psalm 136:3), "God of gods" (Deuteronomy 10:17), and "King of kings" (Revelation 19:16). All these are titles of deity. He is even referred to as "Messiah the Prince" (Daniel 9:25)."

In that quote he says that "God of gods", 'Lord of Lords", "King of Kings" is also known as Michael. I don't know of any Mormon or JW that claims that about Michael because they all say that such titles are titles for almighty God - and they reject Michael as being almighty God.

SDAs by contrast - do claim that God the Son - is almighty God and another name for him is Michael. Just as in Genesis 18 "three MEN" show up -- and later we are told that one is YHWH and the other two are really angels. There is no question but that God has the ability to appear in that form if He so chooses but that does not mean that God is a "mere man".

Sadly your gross equivocations glossed over all the details and creatively suggested that the SDA, Mormon, and JW view of the identity of Michael is the same. How sad. Even your own link does not back you up in that regard.

Not the topic of this thread - but if you want to start such a thread topic...

YHWH is not Michael the Archangel.



JLB

 

[Thistle0Sifter]

YHWH is not Michael the Archangel.



JLB

correct. Only the Son (Christ specifically) is AKA Michael

Jesus is the Son of God, while Michael is the archangel, 2 separate persons!

Well, no.
See:
My earlier posts just above.

 

[JLB777]

correct. Only the Son (Christ specifically) is AKA Michael

Sorry bro,


You just made my point.


Jesus is YHWH.

Jesus is Lord.


I guess you never understood this.




JLB

 

[Thistle0Sifter]

Sorry bro,
You just made my point.
Jesus is YHWH.
Jesus is Lord.
I guess you never understood this.
JLB

no no no
never meant that.
So, yes He is, that is a very base-fundamental absolute-given.
And the Father, and the Holy Spirit are also.
But those two are not the Son, nor are either of them (-also) Michael.

 

[JLB777]

no no no
never meant that.
So, yes He is, that is a very base-fundamental absolute-given.
And the Father, and the Holy Spirit are also.
But those two are not the Son, nor are either of them (-also) Michael.

So your saying YHWH is really called Michael ?


Could you share the scripture where YHWH states that His name is Michael.




JLB

 

[Thistle0Sifter]

So your saying YHWH is really called Michael ?
Could you share the scripture where YHWH states that His name is Michael.
JLB

"So your saying YHWH is really called Michael ?"
nope, rather, what I've said is only and exactly what I've said (stated).
Instead:
Yahweh is the Son ONLY when fully in His role as warrior-commander of the angelic host-army of God.

Try this:
Revelation 12:7
PLUS:
Revelation 22:8-9
and
Joshua 5:13-15
But what really did it for me was this:
Angels: Their Nature and Ministry

God also never said explicitly to not commit abortions (which means as early as immediately after conception) but believers can "figure" this out with an infinitesimal modicum of effort.
Yes?