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Featured Islam Allah is based on moon worship?

Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by mathinspiration, Apr 12, 2018.

  1. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

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    There you have it folks. I rest my case in this thread.
     
  2. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

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  3. Godistruth1

    Godistruth1 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I'm a Muslim so you can surely rest your case !!
     
  4. thesunisout

    thesunisout growing in grace Supporter

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    Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever
     
  5. Vicomte13

    Vicomte13 Well-Known Member

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    Please stop this nonsense. You like original sources? Go pick up the Peshitta, a very early version of the Bible in Aramaic. Some have argued that it is the original Aramaic Gospel from which Matthew was translated, but probably the Peshitta was translated into Aramaic from the Greek some time in the second or third century. It predates Islam by nearly 500 years. Open it and read for yourself: In the beginning, Alah created the heavens and the earth.

    Alah was the Aramaic word for God a half millennium before Mohammed was born.

    And the Jesuits did not exist until a thousand years after that.

    Please, just stop the nonsense. There is no conspiracy here. The reality is simply not what you think it is. Islam is not a secret conspiracy of the Catholic Church. it is an openly expressed, openly practiced, not obscure faith in a set of very open things. We may not AGREE with Muslims on the exact nature of God, and they with us, but they think of God the same way the Jews do: an absolute monad. The difference is that Muslims recognize Jesus as the purest prophet - and Mohammed as the final prophet sent to unbend the ways and make things plain that Jews and Christians obscured. Jews, for their part, once thought that Jesus was an evil blasphemer. Today, they have largely concluded he was a gentle soul who had many right ideas but who, ultimately, was deluded about himself. Muslims have a MUCH higher view of Jesus than that. The Muslim view is pretty much that of the Arians: that Jesus was sent from God, by Virgin Birth to Mary, to be the purest prophet and to give mankind the correct path.

    The Muslims think that we have erred by confusing his Virgin Birth with God having been his direct Father. And they think we have mistakenly elevated him (and the Holy Spirit) to the status of God, that the Trinity is our desperate attempt to turn the one God into three. And they will not allow the word "God" to be used to refer to anything but the HIGHEST God, whom we (and Jesus) would call the Father.

    They think we confuse ourselves with traditional mumbo-jumbo nonsense when we use the word "God" to include Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

    In Christendom, the Council of Nicaea came down on the other side of this issue, and thus there is Trinitarian credalism throughout all of traditional Christianity. The Muslims would have very little beef with Arian Christianity. Jehovah's Witnesses, for example, are really very much like Islam, but steeped in a more Christian tradition.

    The aspects of Arabic CULTURE, such as beheadings of criminals, multiple wives, etc., have become tangled with Islam just as Western culture has become deeply entangled with Christianity. Polygamy is never prohibited by the God of the Bible, and some Jews still practice it, but not in the West. Most Muslims don't practice polygamy. The point is that this is a cultural difference, not REALLY a religious difference.

    The problematic aspects of Islam, for a Christian, are primarily driven by the concept of jihad. Now, mind you, the Muslims perceive the same problem with Christianity, courtesy of the crusades and the world-conquering empires of the Christians. Theologically, it has always been very hard for Christians to tease out an authorization for imperial war from Christ's teachings, because it not only is not there, but Christ would frankly condemn the Christian imperialist powers for their violent evil. Allah does explicitly urge the Muslim to not just carry the religion into the world to teach it, just like the Christian missionaries, but to do so whenever necessary by the sword and by subterfuge also. This makes the Muslims who really believe their religion difficult neighbors. if you're weak, they have the right, given by God, to conquer you and drive out your paganism. If you are strong, God lets them practice taqiyya and deceive you in order to preserve themselves.

    Allah gave the Muslims the tools to be very successful at expanding and conquering in the world of men, and it is fair to say that it is easier for a Muslim to be faithful to all of the commands of his God than it is for Christians. The demands that Christian tradition say God placed on Christians are so heavy and varied that nobody can keep them, hence the need for confession, guilt...and the whole game of prosecutorial "gotcha" that our belief set enables our secular prosecutors to use on us. Islam is altogether more straightforward in these regards.

    The real test of Chrstianity versus Islam came when the Muslim Arabs overran the Byzantine Levant and North Africa in the 700s and 800s. Syria, Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco, used to be wholly Christian. And yet within a century they were overwhelmingly Muslim. Why? Violent conversion?

    Actually, no. The Christians of the Byzantine Empire never were able to see themselves clear to take the economic hit of abolishing slavery. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you?" Yeah, sure, except when it comes to REAL money and REAL power and REAL social control, which is of course what slavery was all about. Christian civilization had the incompatible mix of a religion of peace and brotherhood, on the one hand, and strongly enforced slavery, including slavery for personal debt, that was the Western norm. The Americans had exactly the same issue. The slaveholding Christians convinced themselves that slavery and Christianity were compatible (this is absurd). But the Muslims, upon conquest, offered freedom from slavery to Christian masters of every Christian who converted. And thus Christianity lost over half of its members in a few years, as Christians opted for the FREEDOM that Islam offered them and their families, over the perpetual grinding slavery at the hands of their Christian "brothers". THAT is how Islam successfully wiped out Christianity in the Levant and Egypt. NOT by the sword at all - the sword merely crushed the Byzantine armies. The Muslims brought freedom, the Christians offered a Roman system of slavery. Freedom from slavery is more important to human beings than submission to the religion of their slavers.

    This, by the way, is very similar to the appeal of Black Islam in America.

    The Christian propensity to not FOLLOW the implications of the commandments of Christ is why Christianity dies. Islam won because Christians would not free their Christian slaves and take the economic hit. That is why Syria and Egypt became Muslim so fast.

    It is very difficult to argue about religion when the way that the religion is practiced count so much for what happens. TODAY, Islam is at the root of the jihad, but also, the Muslims have babies and prohibit abortion. The Christian West is losing the race in Europe because Christians don't practice actual Christian sexual morality, but the Muslims DO practice Muslim sexual morality, and that gives the Muslims an invincible demographic advantage as long as it goes on like that.
     
  6. Vicomte13

    Vicomte13 Well-Known Member

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    Jesus prayed to the Father. Jesus' God was the Father.
     
  7. timewerx

    timewerx the village i--o--t--

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    Egyptians did before Muslim conversion. In fact, Islam got rid of these from the Egyptian culture especially goddess worship makes absolutely no sense in a patriarchal Muslim religion.
     
  8. Vicomte13

    Vicomte13 Well-Known Member

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    But Egypt converted to Christianity long before it converted to Islam, and there's no goddess worship in Christianity either.
     
  9. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

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    It's kinda like you didn't read all that I stated. Of course catholicism is older than Jesuitism - Does the Aramaic Bible, or the Peshitta, call the God of the Bible Allah?

    Re-read what I said. Again, "allah" is singular, not plural. So in Genesis 1:1 it is Hebrew true plural, Elohiym. Not Eloah, nor El. Furthermore the name of God in scripture [KJB] is JEHOVAH Elohiym, not "allah".

    As stated earlier "allah" is a name to the Muslim. The Arabic actually has words for god, it is al-ilah, or ilah. "allah" is not a contraction of either. The arabs, and muslims clearly distinguish betwen the two uses. They utilize 'ilah' to refer to any 'god', but 'allah' only to their "god".

    As for the Peshitto, in 'aramaic', some 'argue' all they want, but much ain't true, and corruptions took place. Rome needs to have Jesus speaking the Aramaic, to justify the "rock" is Peter error.

    I am about to show catholicism and islam connected at the hip - https://www.christianforums.com/thr...n-of-the-desert-matthew-24-24-26-kjb.8058098/

    As a PS.,. even if we granted you that "allah" of arabic is simply 'Eloah" in Hebrew [which I do not actually grant], you do realize that religions use similar names but have entirely differing characters as to those names? Ask a satanist, "Who is Jesus?" Ask a WTS/JW, "Who is Jesus?" Ask a theosophist, "Who is God"? etc., etc., Ie, they are not the same persons/beings, even if using similar words. The 'allah' of a qur'an is not in any way the same character of the Eloah, El, Elohiym of scrpture [KJB]. Follow that previously given link to see official authentic islamic sources.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
  10. kiwimac

    kiwimac Bishop of the See of Aotearoa ROCCNZ;Theologian Supporter

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    Islam did not come from a Catholic plot.
     
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  11. DaisyDay

    DaisyDay blind squirrel

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    Yes, and my husband is from a Muslim country and has many Muslim relatives.

    "Allah" is simply the Arabic word for "God", it is not a theonym as you are using it. You know, before the Burning Bush, Abraham called other gods, "God" in whatever language(s) he spoke.
     
  12. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    It looks as if someone has been drinking heavily from the Jack Chick punch bowl.

    Behold the amazing time-traveling Jesuits!
    [​IMG]

    -CryptoLutheran
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
  13. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

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    What's the name of the Muslim "god" then? They have 99 attributes [names] for this no-name "god" [and a 100th secret one, as told about in the aHadith], so perhaps, you could help me out then, with the name of the Islamic "god"?

    What's the name of the arabic christian God?

    What the name of the arabic Jewish "god"?

    What's the name of the other arabic tribal "god/s", such as the zorastrians?

    Remember what you told me about "allah". It is not a name according to you.

    In Christianity, in arabic, is the Father "allah"?

    In Christianity, in arabic, is the Son "allah"?

    In Christianity, in arabic, is the The Holy Ghost, the Holy Spirit of "allah"?
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
  14. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

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    Jesuits do not need to time travel:

    the qur'an is the flux-capacitor ...

     
  15. kiwimac

    kiwimac Bishop of the See of Aotearoa ROCCNZ;Theologian Supporter

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    Zoroastrians were NOT Arabs, they were Persians. Ahura Mazda is nothing like either Allah or Yahweh.
     
  16. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

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    Not what I asked.
     
  17. SolomonVII

    SolomonVII Well-Known Member

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    One of the first presentations of Trinity in the Bible is the visitation of Abraham from the three angels of God.
    The Hospitality of Abraham: From Christ to Trinity

    This is who God is, according to Christian understanding of the Bible.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Isaac Varghese

    Isaac Varghese New Member

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    Allah is definitely not moon worship or anything of that sort. It's only a symbol. Allah is actually who we know as God the Father.
     
  19. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    Arabic-speaking Christians do not have a different God than Christians who speak other languages.

    Arabic-speaking Jews do not have a different God than Jews who speak other languages.

    In Arabic, the Trinitarian formula is "Bismil Ab wel Ibn wel Ruh el Quddus. el-Ilahu el-Wahid", which means "In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, the one God". The word el Ilahu is a form of Allah, which that word takes when being conjugated in certain ways. This is because Allah is already a definite noun (as I believe someone here already mentioned in a previous post), so it cannot take the definite article "al" (el, in the Egyptian dialect I am used to speaking and hearing in church). So to say something like "the one God", as in the above example, you need to use the "Ilah" form, which is definable (able to take the definite article) and possessable (able to take possessive endings: "my", "your", "their" god) just like any other noun.

    Some examples:



    The hymn "Your mercies, O my God", sung in Arabic by Fr. Musa Rushdy. The text is "Mrahmak ya Ilahi", because "Ilahi" is possessed - "Your mercies, O my God". Putting "Allah" here instead would mean "Your mercies, O God".



    The second canticle of the Midnight praises, sung in Arabic by the Ensemble of Abu Fam. The second line of the text (at ~ 0:26) reads اشكروا اله الالهة "ashkuru Ilahu el Aliha", in English "Give thanks to the God of gods" (aliha is the plural form of Allah). Because of how Arabic forms genitive phrases ("of" phrases), only the second element is definite, e.g., rayah el sahara 'the wind of the desert', zil el shajara "the shade of the tree", etc. So Allah can't go there, because again Allah is already definite. El Allah is grammatically incorrect. The only conjugated form I am aware of containing Allah is Allahuma اللهم, which is vocative ("O God"). I'm not entirely sure when you would use that form as opposed to the more common particle form, ya Allah, which means the same thing ("O God"), as Ya يا is the Arabic vocative particle (used to call anyone's attention, not just God's: ya Baba "O father", ya ustaz "O teacher", etc).

    I hope this clears things up.
     
  20. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    Welcome to the forum, Isaac Varghese. It is good to see another Oriental Orthodox person here. There are very few of us on this website overall.
     
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