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All theories are not equal.

Discussion in 'Creation & Evolution' started by PeterMaclellan, Jun 19, 2007.

  1. Quantic

    Quantic Member

    92
    +2
    Atheist
    Single
    If this claim is true then how do I sense God? You presumably sense God, therefor God must twiddle the neurons in you brain, and atoms of the neurons for you to sense God. So, there is a force outside your body that can affect the atoms and neurons in your brain. Wonderful. Now please tell me how do I build an instrument to detect this force?
     
  2. WolfBitnGodSmittn

    WolfBitnGodSmittn Fresh Meat... Sweet \/^^^\/ Stalking The Night

    +72
    Messianic
    US-Libertarian
    God deals with those who reject Him all the time... but after so much rejection He lets them go their own way. In this case the next time they will sense Him will be the day they stand before Him as their judge...

    how do you justify 'remote viewing' as a legitimate science practiced tested and studied in universities and also a valid aspect of the US and Russian military for the last 50 years, if you cannot sense and test the supernatural?
     
  3. JosephKerr

    JosephKerr New Member

    22
    +0
    Atheist
    So you finally admit it is unfalsifiable?
     
  4. Quantic

    Quantic Member

    92
    +2
    Atheist
    Single
    So I can't build a device that detects the force of God twiddling the neurons in your head?

    I don't. Remote viewing isn't a legitimate science.
     
  5. WolfBitnGodSmittn

    WolfBitnGodSmittn Fresh Meat... Sweet \/^^^\/ Stalking The Night

    +72
    Messianic
    US-Libertarian
    show me please where you can document by legitimate scientists that remote viewing is not a legitimate science
     
  6. Quantic

    Quantic Member

    92
    +2
    Atheist
    Single
    You made the assertion first about remote viewing, but any way, here are some links to read:

    http://skepdic.com/remotevw.html
    http://www.csicop.org/sb/9606/remote_viewing.html
    http://www.randi.org/encyclopedia/remote viewing.html

    Oh, and don't come back stating that these links aren't from legitimate scientists, because the second link is written by such a person. I would like you to find a scientist, who isn't a paranormal wacko, who thinks that there is something to remote viewing.
     
  7. WolfBitnGodSmittn

    WolfBitnGodSmittn Fresh Meat... Sweet \/^^^\/ Stalking The Night

    +72
    Messianic
    US-Libertarian
    http://www.courtneybrown.com/publications/RemoteViewing.html

    and here is a short list from http://www.mceagle.com/remote-viewing/refs/

    Journals
    Peer-Reviewed Publications
    Other Science-related Publications
    The C.I.A.-sponsored A.I.R. report
    Abstracts Online
    Journal of Scientific Exploration
    Journal of Parapsychology
    Subtle Energies Magazine
    Complete Articles
    Books
    In Print
    Out of Print Remote Viewing related web links
    [​IMG]
    REFERENCES
    Journals
    Peer-Reviewed Publications
    Journal of Parapsychology
    402 N. Buchanan Blvd., Durham, NC 27701-1728 Phone 919 688-8241 Fax 919 683-4338 Email:
    [email protected]. http://www.rhine.org/jp1.html (abstracts online) 4 Quarterly issues: Individuals $40US/$46Foreign; Students $25US/$31Foreign Archive issues: $10; current issues: $12
    Journal of Scientific Exploration
    PO Box 5848 Stanford, CA 94309-5848 Phone: (415) 593-8581 Fax: (415) 595-4466 Email:
    [email protected] Marsha Sims, Executive Editor http://www.jse.com/ (abstracts online) Each issue is $12.50 U.S. + S&H. Back issues available.
    Subtle Energies
    ISSSEEM Central Office 356 Goldco Circle Golden CO 80401 303/278-2228 Ofc 303/279-3539 fax

    Other Science-related Publications:
    PEAR Publications
    Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research C-131, Engineering Quadrangle Princeton University Princeton, NJ 08544 Phone: (609) 258-5950 Fax: (609) 258-1993 Email:
    [email protected] http://www.princeton.edu/~rdnelson/publist.html
    .
    Articles about the C.I.A.-sponsored
    A.I.R. report on Remote Viewing:
    Evaluation of the Program on Anomalous Mental Phenomena — Ray Hyman Webmaster's note: Dr. Hyman has apparently taken this offline. This link is to a local copy.
    Commentary on the AIR Report — Ed May
    Abstracts Online Journal of Scientific Exploration
    Journal of Parapsychology
    Applications of Decision Augmentation Theory — Edwin C. May, S. James P. Spottiswoode, Jessica M. Utts, and Christine L. James
    Decision Augmentation Theory: Towards a Model of Anomalous Mental Phenomena — Edwin C. May, Jessica M. Utts, and S. James Spottiswoode
    Feedback Considerations in Anomalous Cognition Experiments — Edwin C. May, Nevin D. Lantz, and Tom Piantineda
    Managing the Target Pool Bandwidth: Possible Noise Reducation for Anomalous cognition Experiments — Edwin C. May, S. James P. Spottiswoode, and Christine L. James
    Signal Processing Analysis of Forced-Choice ESP Data: Evidence for Psi as a Wave of Correlation — Norman S. Don, Bruce E. McDonough, and Charles A. Warren
    Target and Sender Dependencies in Anomalous Cognition Experiments — Nevin D. Lantz, Wanda L. W. Luke, and Edwin C. May
    Subtle Energies Magazine
    Consciousness Interactions with Remote Biological Systems: Anomalous Intentionality Effects — William G. Braud, Ph.D. & Marilyn J. Schlitz, M.A.
    Intuitive Diagnoses — Daniel J. Benor, M.D.
    Overview of Current Parapsychology Research in the Former Soviet Union — Edwin C. May, Ph.D. and Larissa Vilenskaya
    Complete Articles
    Replication and Meta-Analysis in Parapsychology — Jessica Utts, Ph.D. Statistical Science, 1991
    The Paranormal: the Evidence and its Implications for Consciousness — Dr. Brian Josephson and Dr. Jessica Utts, [London] Times Higher Education Supplement, 1996



    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0312267398/psitechtechnicar
     
  8. KCfromNC

    KCfromNC Regular Member

    +5,716
    Atheist
    Private
    Matt 24:34 - After discussing the events leading up to his return, Jesus says "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place." This is echoed in Mark and Luke as well. Seems pretty clear to me.
     
  9. WolfBitnGodSmittn

    WolfBitnGodSmittn Fresh Meat... Sweet \/^^^\/ Stalking The Night

    +72
    Messianic
    US-Libertarian
    you assume He was speaking of HIS generation as "THIS" generation and this is not the case...

    Context my friend, you forget the context... He is speaking of "THIS" generation as the one who would see ALL the signs come about... stating that when the generation seeing ALL these things come to pass THIS generation will not end til it sees His coming...

    note we are also told that before this happens Israel must be taken captive and carried away into all nations... He is preferancing this... then when referring to the budding of the fig tree He is stating that they will be brought back to israel...

    In the old testament we read of a complete dispersal that would come for the jew throughout the world, but that in the last day the fig tree would bud and they would be called back to their land... now 9 tribes were already carried away by the time of Christ, but judah, levi and half of benjamiin still LIVED in israel and were not dispersed until 70 ad by titus. They went nearly 2000 years before they saw the budding of the fig tree, which is the literal wording used in the old testament... This was taught by the church as well... i have had the pleasure of reading many old theology books from the 1800's which all looked at that prophecy and declared israel would again become a nation... 2000 years and then becoming a nation again was never done by any other nation ever, so this was truly miraculous in itself..

    Israel becoming a nation again was part of the prophecy. Now when we see ALL these things come to pass THIS generaiton shall not pass til ALL these things be fulfilled


    for referance to this

    Ezekiel 36:3 Therefore prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because they have made you desolate, and swallowed you up on every side, that ye might be a possession unto the residue of the heathen, and ye are taken up in the lips of talkers, and are an infamy of the people: 4 Therefore, ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord GOD; Thus saith the Lord GOD to the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, [1] and to the valleys, to the desolate wastes, and to the cities that are forsaken, which became a prey and derision to the residue of the heathen that are round about; 5 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Surely in the fire of my jealousy have I spoken against the residue of the heathen, and against all Idumea, which have appointed my land into their possession with the joy of all their heart, with despiteful minds, to cast it out for a prey. 6 Prophesy therefore concerning the land of Israel, and say unto the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I have spoken in my jealousy and in my fury, because ye have borne the shame of the heathen: 7 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I have lifted up mine hand, Surely the heathen that are about you, they shall bear their shame. 8 But ye, O mountains of Israel, ye shall shoot forth your branches, and yield your fruit to my people of Israel; for they are at hand to come. 9 For, behold, I am for you, and I will turn unto you, and ye shall be tilled and sown: 10 And I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, even all of it: and the cities shall be inhabited, and the wastes shall be builded: 11 And I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bring fruit: and I will settle you after your old estates, and will do better unto you than at your beginnings: and ye shall know that I am the Lord. 12 Yea, I will cause men to walk upon you, even my people Israel; and they shall possess thee, and thou shalt be their inheritance, and thou shalt no more henceforth bereave them of men.


    19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them. 20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the Lord, and are gone forth out of his land. 21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went. 22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. 23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.


    36 Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the Lord build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the Lord have spoken it, and I will do it. 37 Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will yet for this be enquired of by the house of Israel, to do it for them; I will increase them with men like a flock. 38 As the holy [3] flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the Lord.




    So you see, the regathering of Israel after a long dispersal is referred to as the trees shooting forth their branches just as Jesus prophesied and this has been recognized by Hebrew and christian since 70 AD....

    The regathering of israel is a wake up call and we see quickly all the rest of the signs building for the climax of the return of the Lord to take the world
     
  10. KCfromNC

    KCfromNC Regular Member

    +5,716
    Atheist
    Private
    The text from this chapter of Matthew is directly addressing the disciples. They ask "when will you return". He gives a bunch of events leading up to his return, says specifically that the disciples will see them, and then says "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place." The whole passage is about things that the disciples will endure and witness themselves, so it makes no sense that this one verse would suddenly be talking about some other group. Taking it in context, Jesus said the disciples would see the 2nd coming in their generation.
     
  11. WolfBitnGodSmittn

    WolfBitnGodSmittn Fresh Meat... Sweet \/^^^\/ Stalking The Night

    +72
    Messianic
    US-Libertarian
    he did not EVER say, YOU will not pass away til all these things be fulfilled... i showed you from scripture itself what Jesus was referring to... its just over your head... "THIS" generation couldnt even begin until AFTER israel was returned to her homeland as a nation
     
  12. KCfromNC

    KCfromNC Regular Member

    +5,716
    Atheist
    Private
    Yes, that's nice. If you actually read the passage, you'll see Jesus was saying that the disciples would witness all these things you quoted first hand. This means that they are the "this generation" Jesus was talking about.

    Getting frustrated that you can't figure out how to explain away the obvious meaning of this passage? Try to keep the insults in check - it might distract some people but mainly it just looks like you're trying to distract people.

    Yeah, and the whole passage has Jesus saying that the disciples would witness this happening, along with the other events in the list. There's no reason for a miraculous change of meaning for that one verse, and then an immediate switch back to talking about the disciples and their contemporaries. Well, there is one reason, and that's to hand-wave away the obvious fact that the world didn't end within a generation of Jesus' prediction that it would.
     
  13. WolfBitnGodSmittn

    WolfBitnGodSmittn Fresh Meat... Sweet \/^^^\/ Stalking The Night

    +72
    Messianic
    US-Libertarian
    shhhhhhhhh its ok

    yer wrong

    the correct meaning is right over your head ;)
     
  14. Phred

    Phred Junior Mint

    +538
    United States
    Atheist
    Married
    US-Democrat
    I assume God told you so?

    How arrogant that is.
     
  15. WolfBitnGodSmittn

    WolfBitnGodSmittn Fresh Meat... Sweet \/^^^\/ Stalking The Night

    +72
    Messianic
    US-Libertarian
    fred
    in case you missed it this is what God told EVERYONE... and this is what the church has taught since 70 AD


    here it is again
    you assume He was speaking of HIS generation as "THIS" generation and this is not the case...

    Context my friend, you forget the context... He is speaking of "THIS" generation as the one who would see ALL the signs come about... stating that when the generation seeing ALL these things come to pass THIS generation will not end til it sees His coming...

    note we are also told that before this happens Israel must be taken captive and carried away into all nations... He is preferancing this... then when referring to the budding of the fig tree He is stating that they will be brought back to israel...

    In the old testament we read of a complete dispersal that would come for the jew throughout the world, but that in the last day the fig tree would bud and they would be called back to their land... now 9 tribes were already carried away by the time of Christ, but judah, levi and half of benjamiin still LIVED in israel and were not dispersed until 70 ad by titus. They went nearly 2000 years before they saw the budding of the fig tree, which is the literal wording used in the old testament... This was taught by the church as well... i have had the pleasure of reading many old theology books from the 1800's which all looked at that prophecy and declared israel would again become a nation... 2000 years and then becoming a nation again was never done by any other nation ever, so this was truly miraculous in itself..

    Israel becoming a nation again was part of the prophecy. Now when we see ALL these things come to pass THIS generaiton shall not pass til ALL these things be fulfilled


    for referance to this

    Ezekiel 36:3 Therefore prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because they have made you desolate, and swallowed you up on every side, that ye might be a possession unto the residue of the heathen, and ye are taken up in the lips of talkers, and are an infamy of the people: 4 Therefore, ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord GOD; Thus saith the Lord GOD to the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, [1] and to the valleys, to the desolate wastes, and to the cities that are forsaken, which became a prey and derision to the residue of the heathen that are round about; 5 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Surely in the fire of my jealousy have I spoken against the residue of the heathen, and against all Idumea, which have appointed my land into their possession with the joy of all their heart, with despiteful minds, to cast it out for a prey. 6 Prophesy therefore concerning the land of Israel, and say unto the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I have spoken in my jealousy and in my fury, because ye have borne the shame of the heathen: 7 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I have lifted up mine hand, Surely the heathen that are about you, they shall bear their shame. 8 But ye, O mountains of Israel, ye shall shoot forth your branches, and yield your fruit to my people of Israel; for they are at hand to come. 9 For, behold, I am for you, and I will turn unto you, and ye shall be tilled and sown: 10 And I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, even all of it: and the cities shall be inhabited, and the wastes shall be builded: 11 And I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bring fruit: and I will settle you after your old estates, and will do better unto you than at your beginnings: and ye shall know that I am the Lord. 12 Yea, I will cause men to walk upon you, even my people Israel; and they shall possess thee, and thou shalt be their inheritance, and thou shalt no more henceforth bereave them of men.


    19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them. 20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the Lord, and are gone forth out of his land. 21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went. 22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. 23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.


    36 Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the Lord build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the Lord have spoken it, and I will do it. 37 Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will yet for this be enquired of by the house of Israel, to do it for them; I will increase them with men like a flock. 38 As the holy [3] flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the Lord.




    So you see, the regathering of Israel after a long dispersal is referred to as the trees shooting forth their branches just as Jesus prophesied and this has been recognized by Hebrew and christian since 70 AD....

    The regathering of israel is a wake up call and we see quickly all the rest of the signs building for the climax of the return of the Lord to take the world
     
  16. Phred

    Phred Junior Mint

    +538
    United States
    Atheist
    Married
    US-Democrat
    Nah... that's what's in the Bible... I don't see where God's involved at all. I saw where you were trying to pretend you were speaking FOR God, that I saw. Wasn't very convincing.
     
  17. WolfBitnGodSmittn

    WolfBitnGodSmittn Fresh Meat... Sweet \/^^^\/ Stalking The Night

    +72
    Messianic
    US-Libertarian
    it doesnt matter to me if you are convinced fred

    if you are ignorant of the fact that the church has taught this since 70 AD, and wish to remain so after being instructed otherwise, even with the prophecy provided, thats ok with me :)

    your seeming bias against the bible is bringing you to an illogical conclucion
     
  18. Phred

    Phred Junior Mint

    +538
    United States
    Atheist
    Married
    US-Democrat
    Once again you're experiencing a serious reading comprehension issue. What the church teaches does not mean a god exists. What the Bible says does not mean a god exists. You live in a circular world of "the bible is true because it says it is" and that's nonsense...

    My point was that I saw nothing in the earlier post to make me think there was anything godly about what was posted. I saw nothing but you spouting about the meaning of the word "this" and I don't much care how long that's been being taught. YOU posted it here, take responsibility for your own actions.
     
  19. WolfBitnGodSmittn

    WolfBitnGodSmittn Fresh Meat... Sweet \/^^^\/ Stalking The Night

    +72
    Messianic
    US-Libertarian
    you really have a bias against the bible dont you? it almost seems hateful... why?
     
  20. Sleeker

    Sleeker DON'T PANIC

    +45
    Agnostic
    Single
    US-Republican
    He's got a great point. You believe in the Bible because the Bible says it's right. That means that I could say, "I'm always right," and you should believe me because, hey, I said so, didn't I?
     
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