All theories are not equal.

[WolfBitnGodSmittn]

Actually, no it doesn't. We can empirically examine evidence for Jesus' existence as a person, and the number of evidences would suggest that a person called Jesus did in fact exist around that time, but we CANNOT empirically test for his divinity. Historical accounts are not always able to be empirically tested because they events have happened long ago. There is no way we can scientifically test for Jesus' existence, god's existence, the existence of a holy spirit, the existence of heaven and hell, etc. These are all unscientific, untestable, and all have to form part of your overall "god speculation", making the net total untestable, unfalsifiable, unscientific (take your pick, it's all 3)



2 points:

• Why do we need a cause? The reason is because everything needs a cause, right? So why do radioactive atoms decay when they do? What's the cause of that? Perhaps not all events require direct causes, just enough of what passes for "time".
• The "cause" of the big bang, if there is one, is almost completely unknown as yet, but testing may lead to some clues in the future. Further investigation may well lead to more concrete theory of what "preceded" the big bang. However, even if we never know anything more than we do now about the big bang, there is no logical reason to insert "therefore god". This is inherently a non-sequitur fallacy (i.e. "does not follow")

You really need more than this if you want to present god as a valid scientific hypothesis.

it is fully testable

we see the time of revelation arising, when the world is moving to a worldwide economic system. Verichip is in place to lead the way, with already thousands of people chipped and resources worldwide. Once we are forced to receive an implantable identification, we have less than 7 years before the return of Christ, who IS God... so it is entirely testable in the very same time sensitive way haleys comet's effect on the earth's magnetic field would be testable in several more decades... however, it seems the economic system will be in place far sooner than haley comet returns...


As for the rest, the fact you have no falsifiable theory concerning radioactive decay her no bearing on the question 'Is Jesus Christ God?'

once THIS is either proven or disproven within 7 years of the worldwide economic system and the forced chipping of people for commerce and identification you will know whether Jesus Christ is truly God.. so when you see this established start your countdown...


Once this is either proven true or untrue, we will be able to then test whether Jesus is the creator


so yes everything here is time dependantly testable... your FIRST chance to disprove it comes at the end of 7 years of forced implantable identification

 

[thewood68]

negative

 

[WolfBitnGodSmittn]

in what way?

i am assuming you understand what falsifiable is

 

[WolfBitnGodSmittn]

and you are yet to post a quote because it is a false allegation

 

[WolfBitnGodSmittn]

sure

a proper scientific theory must be 'falsifiable', meaning that it must be possible to test... even if that testing is time sensitive... for instance we could theorize on the effect on haleys comet on the gravitation field on the earth, and this theory would in time be testable, though we cannot test it YET.

it must be testable in that it must be 'sensed' as lucretius said

1) we have the claim by Jesus AND His deciples that He is God...

This was seen heard, and miracles were performed so it WAS falsifiable, and not proven false

2) we have the claim made that He lived and died

this is attested to by non christian historians who were contemperary, and the first four books of the new testament are testimony of his life and death... There is so much extrabiblical proof of this that atheists are forced to concede the point... at any rate whether he lived and died it is falsifiable, and has only thus far been proven true... not false

3) we have the claim that He rose from the dead

this is accounted by over 500 witnesses... making it not only falsifiable, but thus far true, and no one has even been able to prove it false

4) we have the claim He made the heavens and the earth... i dont know how, He may have even created a tiny particle and caused it to BANG... BUT... is this falsifiable? yes it is... we are told He will return, takie the world, and sometime later create a new heavens and earth, and this will begin just shortly after a time when the world unites economicly, people are forced to receive something in their hand to do commerce, and terrible war breaks out shortly threafter...

so far we see the economis system setting up and we have www.verichipcorp.com Verichip leading the way, already implanting thousands of people

We see these events occuring so we have a time span to go by, therefore we have a time sensitive falsifiable theory, because we will SEE the creation of the NEW heavens and earth... when we see this worldwide economic system come into effect, we wont even have 7 years left to go on this earth as it is, and 1000 years after the reign of Christ it will be destroyed and we will see the new creation

on the flip side... not one theory concerning the cause of the bang held by atheists is scientificly falsifiable

my apologies all

i am sorry i was the sidetrack... i believe this is where we were though, i was answering a question asked as to how God, creation by God, and Jesus Himself were falsifiable

 

[Electric Skeptic]

and you are yet to post a quote because it is a false allegation

Incorrect. I am yet to post a quote because to do so would be futile. You would ignore it as you already have.

 

[WolfBitnGodSmittn]

Incorrect. I am yet to post a quote because to do so would be futile. You would ignore it as you already have.

you have none... but its ok

God bless you

 

[stumpjumper]

it is fully testable

we see the time of revelation arising, when the world is moving to a worldwide economic system. Verichip is in place to lead the way, with already thousands of people chipped and resources worldwide. Once we are forced to receive an implantable identification, we have less than 7 years before the return of Christ, who IS God... so it is entirely testable in the very same time sensitive way haleys comet's effect on the earth's magnetic field would be testable in several more decades... however, it seems the economic system will be in place far sooner than haley comet returns...


As for the rest, the fact you have no falsifiable theory concerning radioactive decay her no bearing on the question 'Is Jesus Christ God?'

once THIS is either proven or disproven within 7 years of the worldwide economic system and the forced chipping of people for commerce and identification you will know whether Jesus Christ is truly God.. so when you see this established start your countdown...


Once this is either proven true or untrue, we will be able to then test whether Jesus is the creator


so yes everything here is time dependantly testable... your FIRST chance to disprove it comes at the end of 7 years of forced implantable identification

So, let me get this straight, creationism and the doctrine that Jesus Christ is very God is falsifiable because of Verichip?

Gotcha.

 

[SAint Mark]

Oops, almost missed your post!

Empirical: based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic.

In other words, empiricism is firmly rooted in the senses, and, therefore, the physical universe. As God lies outside of the physical universe, he cannot be tested empirically.

Even if God were supposed to interact, and occasionally enter our universe, we could never conclude, from the physical interaction, that something outside of the physical was at work. This would always be a logical jump, as physical evidence can only support physical conclusions.

Thank you. So according to this definition not only God but pretty much anything "spiritual" can not be empirically studied?

I just had a curious thought. Let's asume for the sake of argument that we further evolved (asuming that we do evolve) into beings that could sense the spritual world (asuming again that one exists) and find a way to study it. Would this make it scientific?

 

[ciaphas]

Yes.

 

[stumpjumper]

I just had a curious thought. Let's asume for the sake of argument that we further evolved (asuming that we do evolve) into beings that could sense the spritual world (asuming again that one exists) and find a way to study it.

The noosphere?

Gotta love De Chardin and his Omega Point...

 

[jwu]

t is fully testable

we see the time of revelation arising, when the world is moving to a worldwide economic system. Verichip is in place to lead the way, with already thousands of people chipped and resources worldwide. Once we are forced to receive an implantable identification, we have less than 7 years before the return of Christ, who IS God... so it is entirely testable in the very same time sensitive way haleys comet's effect on the earth's magnetic field would be testable in several more decades... however, it seems the economic system will be in place far sooner than haley comet returns...

It's only your hypothesis that Jesus would return 7 years after VeriChips have become mandatory (which is even yet to see if it ever happens, i doubt it) that is testable.

I suppose that every Jewish creationist - who believe in pretty much the same creationism as you do - will disagree that a failure of Jesus to show up in that time will result in creationism being falsified. Creationism does not logically depend on Jesus' second coming.

 

[Elduran]

it is fully testable

Word of advice: saying it doesn't make it true, it just means that you think it is. Very different

we see the time of revelation arising, when the world is moving to a worldwide economic system. Verichip is in place to lead the way, with already thousands of people chipped and resources worldwide. Once we are forced to receive an implantable identification, we have less than 7 years before the return of Christ, who IS God... so it is entirely testable in the very same time sensitive way haleys comet's effect on the earth's magnetic field would be testable in several more decades... however, it seems the economic system will be in place far sooner than haley comet returns...

And how does any of this rambling demonstrate the falsifiability of god?

As for the rest, the fact you have no falsifiable theory concerning radioactive decay her no bearing on the question 'Is Jesus Christ God?'

No, but it sure shoots a hole in the argument for necessary universal causality.

once THIS is either proven or disproven within 7 years of the worldwide economic system and the forced chipping of people for commerce and identification you will know whether Jesus Christ is truly God.. so when you see this established start your countdown...

Nah, I think I'll continue to live in the real world rather than some bizarre conspiracy theorist nightmare.

By the way, stating all this still isn't a falsifiable test for god, because it's all still just a verification test, not a falsification one. If all this comes true, then fine, something might be correct in religion, but if it doesn't, there will just be yet more excuses. This means it is not a falsification test, which means that you can't use this as proof that god is falsifiable.

Once this is either proven true or untrue, we will be able to then test whether Jesus is the creator

How? Please give details as to how we would test that claim.

so yes everything here is time dependantly testable... your FIRST chance to disprove it comes at the end of 7 years of forced implantable identification

Wishful thinking won't help here...

All that is falsifiable here is the claim that after 7 years of whatever you're talking about, something will happen. That claim is vaguely falsifiable, but only given the initial starting conditions. At the moment it's pretty unfalsifiable because we can't ever work to the conditions that you claim are needed before we can test it.

 

[WhiteMageGirl]

it is fully testable

we see the time of revelation arising, when the world is moving to a worldwide economic system. Verichip is in place to lead the way, with already thousands of people chipped and resources worldwide. Once we are forced to receive an implantable identification, we have less than 7 years before the return of Christ, who IS God... so it is entirely testable in the very same time sensitive way haleys comet's effect on the earth's magnetic field would be testable in several more decades... however, it seems the economic system will be in place far sooner than haley comet returns...


As for the rest, the fact you have no falsifiable theory concerning radioactive decay her no bearing on the question 'Is Jesus Christ God?'

once THIS is either proven or disproven within 7 years of the worldwide economic system and the forced chipping of people for commerce and identification you will know whether Jesus Christ is truly God.. so when you see this established start your countdown...


Once this is either proven true or untrue, we will be able to then test whether Jesus is the creator


so yes everything here is time dependantly testable... your FIRST chance to disprove it comes at the end of 7 years of forced implantable identification

That's been the "proof" of end times for nearly 2000 years. The vague prophecies of revelation at any given point in time are being fulfilled just enough to say it's about to happen.

Quite frankly they were more convincing when the Roman empire was in power, during the black death, or the many other times it was end of days.

 

[michabo]

Once this is either proven true or untrue, we will be able to then test whether Jesus is the creator


so yes everything here is time dependantly testable... your FIRST chance to disprove it comes at the end of 7 years of forced implantable identification

What does any of this have to do with Jesus being a creator or with God in general?

How could we possibly test if "Jesus is the creator"?

 

[michabo]

Thank you. So according to this definition not only God but pretty much anything "spiritual" can not be empirically studied?

Depends. Most theists & New-Agey spiritualists refuse to describe their ideas with sufficient clarity to allow them to be studied. Should they ever correct this, then yes, we can empirically study them.

My view is that unclear speech results from an unclear mind. This is excusable on occasion or in certain people, but every theologian I've ever read suffers from this problem. Given that, most empirical studies will be difficult.

However, notice how some apologists will writhe in delight whenever an empirical study seems to validate their ideas - prayer healing people, for example. They clearly act like observing the real world (ie: empirical study) is a valid way of studying religious/spiritual beliefs.

 

[Loudmouth]

sure

a proper scientific theory must be 'falsifiable', meaning that it must be possible to test...

Great. So what evidence, if found, would falsify creationism?

 

[SAint Mark]

Depends. Most theists & New-Agey spiritualists refuse to describe their ideas with sufficient clarity to allow them to be studied. Should they ever correct this, then yes, we can empirically study them.

My view is that unclear speech results from an unclear mind. This is excusable on occasion or in certain people, but every theologian I've ever read suffers from this problem. Given that, most empirical studies will be difficult.

However, notice how some apologists will writhe in delight whenever an empirical study seems to validate their ideas - prayer healing people, for example. They clearly act like observing the real world (ie: empirical study) is a valid way of studying religious/spiritual beliefs.

Even if they describe their ideas how can you disprove them when what they are describing is something that can not be sensed by our senses? Or how can you study something that is described and cannot be sensed?

Please give me an example, makes it easier. When things get to theoretical my mind gets turned into knots .

 

[Electric Skeptic]

Even if they describe their ideas how can you disprove them when what they are describing is something that can not be sensed by our senses? Or how can you study something that is described and cannot be sensed?

Please give me an example, makes it easier. When things get to theoretical my mind gets turned into knots .

You can't. It's only when they are talking about something that can be detected by our senses that falsifiability is possible.

For example: "Jesus will return in a blaze of glory and vanquish Satan" is not falsifiable.

"Jesus will return by December 31, 2007, and we will detect his return by [insert specific and definitive list of what we will see which will indicate his return]" is falsifiable.

 

[WolfBitnGodSmittn]

You can't. It's only when they are talking about something that can be detected by our senses that falsifiability is possible.

For example: "Jesus will return in a blaze of glory and vanquish Satan" is not falsifiable.

"Jesus will return by December 31, 2007, and we will detect his return by [insert specific and definitive list of what we will see which will indicate his return]" is falsifiable.

if it is placed within a certain time frame, and it is, then indeed it has become falsifiable