ALL Scriptures For and Against Once Saved Always Saved

yeshuaslavejeff

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Just to add for MDC, Jesus warned that many will fall away because of demonic doctrines. If Jesus is the truth, then one of us is very wrong. Jesus tells us in His word that it is not a free ride but a requirement of losing your life and taking up our cross. We will be hated for His name sake. It’s easy to see why you are comfortable with your beliefs. It requires no sacrifice of self. This is why I left my own church. It taught God is love, you can’t outdo His grace, everybody happy. The Bible and specifically Jesus teaches us it will be a very difficult walk. It’s why He called it the narrow road. It’s one way, His way and if Jesus said we need to crucify our own selfish desires and walk in the spirit, I am going to take Him at His word. Don’t believe me brother, believe Jesus
It looks like you got another poster and me mixed up.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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He can’t will it into being because that would take away mans free will. It’s sad to see but people actually hate God and even worse, don’t believe in Him.
Right. This is in line with Scripture. (at least this stated here is, not other associated ideas maybe)
 
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Jonathan Leo

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It looks like you got another poster and me mixed up.
No brother, I’m quoting on your post as a double to add to your post. You and I are saying the same thing to show MDC the errors. Sorry for the confusion lol
 
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MDC

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Just to add for MDC, Jesus warned that many will fall away because of demonic doctrines. If Jesus is the truth, then one of us is very wrong. Jesus tells us in His word that it is not a free ride but a requirement of losing your life and taking up our cross. We will be hated for His name sake. It’s easy to see why you are comfortable with your beliefs. It requires no sacrifice of self. This is why I left my own church. It taught God is love, you can’t outdo His grace, everybody happy. The Bible and specifically Jesus teaches us it will be a very difficult walk. It’s why He called it the narrow road. It’s one way, His way and if Jesus said we need to crucify our own selfish desires and walk in the spirit, I am going to take Him at His word. Don’t believe me brother, believe Jesus
The teaching that eternal life isn’t secure in Christ, is one of those demonic doctrines. And why do you keep insinuating that I’m condoning habitual sin? Or that I may be living in habitual sin? This is a fallacious accusation simply because you can’t deal with the fact that YOUR WORKS plays nothing towards your justification before God. Mercy is what saves! The mercy of God that is only found in Christ and His merits alone. It is those who rest in this gospel that give evidence of being saved by Gods Sovereign mercy
 
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MDC

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Prayers are required by all, and for all.
No one can even recognise their own errors unless it is granted by ABBA YHVH from heaven.
IF HE doesn't remove the veil and grant understanding, it just doesn't happen.
Do you believe God grants repentance and understanding? If so where is your “free” will?
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Do you believe God grants repentance and understanding? If so where is your “free” will?
Did God ever give you a choice to turn away from sin,
to choose to serve God instead of demons,
to turn to God to serve Him whole-heartedly ?

If not, ask Him to.
 
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MDC

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Did God ever give you a choice to turn away from sin,
to choose to serve God instead of demons,
to turn to God to serve Him whole-heartedly ?

If not, ask Him to.
So your answer is no! God grants only the elect in Christ. All of grace.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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So your answer is no! God grants only the elect in Christ. All of grace.
I didn't give you an answer yet.

Still waiting on your answer.

If you were not given a choice, if you never chose to follow God and to serve God instead of satan,
where has that left you ? (hints: not in the elect; not in grace; still lost) ?
 
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Asaph George

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Wrong again! Unregenerate man has not the desire or will to come to Christ apart from grace.. no such thing as free will
So your answer is no! God grants only the elect in Christ. All of grace.

MDC brother,

A lot of talk on taught doctrine but not a lot of scriptures. you have to show from scriptures.

Can you please explain what this passage means?

Hebrews 10:26-27

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

God bless
 
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MDC

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I didn't give you an answer yet.

Still waiting on your answer.

If you were not given a choice, if you never chose to follow God and to serve God instead of satan,
where has that left you ? (hints: not in the elect; not in grace; still lost) ?
Your answer is no so quit dodging the question. Serving Satan is a product of an unregenerate heart that is enslaved to his sinful nature and Satan.. so where’s this so called “free” will?
 
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Asaph George

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Your answer is no so quit dodging the question. Serving Satan is a product of an unregenerate heart that is enslaved to his sinful nature and Satan.. so where’s this so called “free” will?

Matthew 23:37 - 37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Your answer is no so quit dodging the question.
Sorry, no. That's not my answer , and I'm clearly showing you the lack of integrity in your question and handling it.
You must choose whether to follow Jesus or not,
and that choice it seems now is intolerable to you because of your pet doctrinal 'theories' (not from Scripture).
 
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Asaph George

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Your answer is no so quit dodging the question. Serving Satan is a product of an unregenerate heart that is enslaved to his sinful nature and Satan.. so where’s this so called “free” will?

Acts 7:51 - “You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you.

Why would Stephen call them stiff-necked people if they are predestined to hell and destruction?

I thought the grace was irresistible, how can they resist the Spirit of Grace?
 
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MDC

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He is the only one able to grant repentance and understanding.

If you choose to continue to oppose Him(i.e. to not repent), understanding is not granted.
As long as God doesn’t violate your “free” will rt? Lol! So you don’t believe God grants repentance or understanding! You contradict yourself, as do all free willers, on this subject of election. You can’t deny that salvation is by grace, so you pervert it with the false doctrine of prevenient grace to usurp mans will above Gods will. For all whom God chose to save in Christ, they alone Gods elect, will be given understanding and a heart of repentance and faith (regeneration). And them only! “Murmur not among yourselves. No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him.. unless it has been granted to him... therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. John 6. But you do not believe, because you are not my sheep.. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall NEVER perish; NIETHER shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10.
 
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MDC

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Acts 7:51 - “You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you.

Why would Stephen call them stiff-necked people if they are predestined to hell and destruction?

I thought the grace was irresistible, how can they resist the Spirit of Grace?
Ask yourself why do you not believe that eternal life and forgiveness of sin in Christ is secure, apart from your works? There’s your answer
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Exinanition

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From Asaph George’s post #128:

Hello Exinanition,
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I really appreciated your approach brother. I wish we all would stay calm like this and discuss without getting defensive. This is not about egos and winning arguments, it is about the truth of God's Word. Thank you for being like this. I always say I would rather lose an argument and learn the truth, instead of winning an argument and stay in error.

Before I answer I just want to mention something, notice how much we agree on:
- we both agree that true Christians must abide in Christ and continue in the faith until the end
- we both agree that a lifestyle of sin after being born again does not fit with True genuine Christianity but that true Christianity means living in repentance
- we both agree that the works done after being born again/saved do not earn us salvation but are a result of salvation. In other words, we are saved UNTO good works not BY good works.
- we both agree that these good works after being saved are not our own, they are the works of the Spirit in us. They are His works that we bring forth and not our own.

That is huge.

Asaph George, please let me begin by saying a great big hardy “THANK YOU!” I have been on many forums in the past where people just could not be civil. They would start out nice and friendly and then as soon as anyone disagreed with them their immaturity would unveil itself and the conversation could no longer progress. It is refreshing to find someone like yourself who is kindhearted and seeks only the truth of God. I wish all could be as you are in this. If, at any time, you are offended by anything I say, please let me know so I can apologize. It is never my intention to be offensive in what I write. If anyone is offended by something I write I pray it will be because the word of God has offended them and not I. I do have one particular rule by which I live and that is never to post when I am angry or personally offended. I will walk away and pray for the offending party (and for myself in case I am being overly sensitive) and ask God to help me be gracious before I will respond.


You wrote:

My point was this: I find this verse (1 John 3:9) to be the best one that can be used in support of the doctrine of "Once Saved Always Saved" which I don't believe in. That doesn't mean I agree with how Calvinists use it.

Just a quick note here…I am not necessarily Calvinist. I am Southern Baptist with a bent toward Reformed Baptist. I do not, however, attend a Reformed Baptist church. I attend a Southern Baptist church and have for the last twenty-three years. What I believe about OSAS I have arrived at on my own. I did not simply assimilate it in church. I do not blindly follow anyone on doctrine but trust in the Holy Spirit to guide me in these matters. I will hear what they have to say and then, like the Bereans, I “search the scriptures daily to see if these things are so.” Again, I do not claim infallibility. OSAS is where I stand at this time and IF I am wrong I truly do wish to know; though, I do not at this time believe I am.


Btw, I decided to switch and discuss with you (if you allow it of course) because I hardly find people who are willing to follow the flow of thought with an honest and open mind. I always strive to stay teachable also to learn more and more especially with the help of the Spirit who guides us into all truth as Jesus said.

I am willing to try this with you as I believe you are being totally honest with me and about your search for the truth of God’s word.


So what I propose for our discussion:

- we take turns

- you can start with 1 John 3 and we discuss the passage in the context of the whole letter without jumping to other verses from other books and so we don't diverge jumping left and right. If we can get to a point where we are seeing things differently in the context of the same book and the discussion become repetitive, stagnates on a certain point, then we can agree to disagree on the intended meaning of the passage and move on to another passage. All with preserving peace and love among us as you are my brother as I already said
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- I can then choose another passage and we do the same with the same context of the book of that passage.

- then you start again with another passage. etc.. etc..

- If we exhaust the list of passages, then we can look at the conclusions we attained for each passage and draw a summary to edify the body of Christ.

Please let me know if this is good for you. I can only engage with one person at a time here on a forum.

I am willing to try this with you. It will be different for me but that does not mean it is a bad thing. Perhaps, it will be a good thing. It does sound interesting. I will admit that I have not studied the particular set of verses you have listed to make your point with particular emphasis as to how they pertain to this particular subject; however, if what I believe to be true is indeed true then what I believe will stand. If it is not true I deeply desire to know that as well. As you proclaimed about yourself earlier, I do not care who wins a discussion as long as it is the truth of God which wins! I believe with all my heart that sound biblical doctrine is of utmost importance in the life and understanding of the believer in Christ Jesus.


I really hope we can discuss this in a constructive way brother.

May the Lord bless you!


As do I, my new brother in Christ…as do I! I wish you a marvelous evening and…
 
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MDC

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Sorry, no. That's not my answer , and I'm clearly showing you the lack of integrity in your question and handling it.
You must choose whether to follow Jesus or not,
and that choice it seems now is intolerable to you because of your pet doctrinal 'theories' (not from Scripture).
Free willers cannot believe God grants repentance and understanding. Their arrogant doctrine won’t allow them to apart from violating their so called free will
 
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