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Discussion All of the Spiritual Gifts are for today

Discussion in 'Spirit-Filled / Charismatic' started by Michael Collum, Jan 25, 2021.

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  1. ARBITER01

    ARBITER01 Legend

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    If you can't back your claims up with scripture, then you have no case.
     
  2. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    That's your take away? Seriously?

    Yes, I can back it all up with scripture. I just don't do so with people that unrepentantly call me a liar. Doesn't seem like a very fruitful exercise to me.

    But while we are at it, I don't recall seeing you post a single scripture to back up any of your claims. I think the extent of your argument thus far has been, "nu uh... is not!"
     
  3. ARBITER01

    ARBITER01 Legend

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    As I said friend, if you can't back up your claims with scripture then you have no claim. I didn't make the claim, you did.
     
  4. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    Ok, 1 cor 12. There you go. Claim backed up. You going to repent from calling me a liar, friend?
     
  5. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    Oh let's look at your first post on the matter:
    Well, would you look at that? A claim without any scripture to back it up.

    We've really reached the level of massive hypocrisy now.
     
  6. ARBITER01

    ARBITER01 Legend

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    You can't be specific to address your claim?

    Sure seems like you are afraid to step out in front of everyone with your knowledge. Why not enlighten us, you've written books and taught people about this subject.
     
  7. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    Sarcasm noted. I'm not afraid at all, I've PM'd some of my materials to several members here and had detailed conversations. Public conversations get derailed by folks like you. But while we are on the subject you seem afraid to even acknowledge your bad behavior, let alone repent for it. How about we start there, eh?
     
  8. ARBITER01

    ARBITER01 Legend

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    Don't be afraid, post your scripture sections, let's see if The Holy Spirit addresses the issue. He's the real authority on this, let's see what He says.
     
  9. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    After you repent... don't be afraid, it's a sign of spiritual maturity to admit when you were wrong.
     
  10. ARBITER01

    ARBITER01 Legend

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    For your information, you're not GOD, and guilt manipulation doesn't work on me, I think you figured this out by now.

    You can't claim to be an authority on this subject if you can't rightly divide the word before us. I'm beginning to think that you over-stepped on this subject. I've seen that a lot on here before also.
     
  11. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    Here some scriptures from GOD for you start with:

    Pro 6:16-19 - There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.

    Luke 6:7 - The scribes and the Pharisees were watching Him closely to see if He healed on the Sabbath, so that they might find reason to accuse Him.

    Luke 17:3 - So watch yourselves. If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them.

    Rom 2:4-5 - Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance? But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.
     
  12. ARBITER01

    ARBITER01 Legend

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    Haha,... typical.

    Since it seems you need help, let me help you,...

    Each member is an individual in the body.
    Each member can have a ministry, but can't have every ministry. Why? Because they would not be an individual in the body anymore.

    We also see The Holy Spirit talk about it here,..

    The Holy Spirit is identifying offices and corporate ministries in the body here. Red for offices, blue for corporate ministries. In this section He is very specific about it,... are all apostles? Are all prophets? Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Etc.

    It's quite evident that GOD has specific people for specific ministries in the body. In fact, He points it out twice here in this chapter.
     
  13. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    I think I figured out why according to your words manipulation doesn't work on you. Because you are an expert at it yourself.

    Not a single thing you posted actually indicates all the gifts cannot be in operation corporately in a church. Not a single thing.
     
  14. ARBITER01

    ARBITER01 Legend

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    You're getting ahead of yourself,...

    Without that gift, the corporate gift of tongues can't be operated. That's two that's missing of the 9 you say can be operating in a setting, hence my statement is correct.

    In the same measure, you have presented nothing that says all of the gifts can be in operation. Just making a statement doesn't mean it's true without some backing by The Holy Spirit in scripture.
     
  15. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    As I have said this is an incorrect interpretation and application and in this case just bad logic.

    Further, this is flat out manipulation. You have called me names, made accusations, poked and poked and poked. Now you try to dangle a carrot to get me to do what YOU want, when I expressly said I don't debate this things with people that act this way. This is textbook manipulation to get me to do what you want, plain and simple. You have not applied the same rules yourself that you do to everyone else and just ignore what you don't like.

    I know full well what you are doing. If I engage, you ignore the core of what I am teaching and find small little side things to try to poke holes in it based on what your current interpretation. That leaves me addressing these small side issues one by one and never getting to paint the whole picture, all the with someone who is not listening anyway. Or, if I just refuse to play your game, you claim victory by default, which you have already attempted. That is straight up manipulation. I teach an entire class on this. Teaching requires students. You have made it clear you have no desire to be a student.

    Therefore I am done engaging in this façade, I've already wasted enough time. You go ahead and claim your false victory. Because it is 100% false and just games and manipulation. However, for those who actually want to learn, you can feel free to PM me and I'll gladly share as I have the opportunity.

    *ignore button invoked*
     
  16. ARBITER01

    ARBITER01 Legend

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    I hope people were paying attention.

    Scripture is your tool as well as your weapon. Allow The Holy Spirit to lead you, not men. Over and out.
     
  17. SANTOSO

    SANTOSO Well-Known Member

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    Dear brothers,
    This is what we have heard:
    Why not rather be wronged? -
    1 Corinthians 6:7

    Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. -Hebrews 12:14

    Let us take the strength of the Lord to release forgiveness to those who wronged us.

    Let your vindication comes from the Lord.

    Intellectual edification doesn’t bring us close to the Lord but we are called to draw near God through Christ who is our love.

    Remember love cover a multitude of sins. We owe much to the Lord who is our love.

    This is what we have heard:
    By this we know love, that he laid down his life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers. -1 John 3:16

    How are we ought to lay down our lives ? This is what we have heard:
    And falling to his knees he cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." And when he had said this, he fell asleep. -Acts 7:60

    Aren’t Stephen blamed by others that he spoke blasphemous words which he didn’t? Yet, He took the strength of the Lord to release forgiveness to others because he choose to love one another as the Lord instructed him.

    Will you choose this path of grace and truth ?

    Dear brothers, we have heard:
    To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. -1 Corinthians 12:7

    I am delighted that both you receive the gifts of the Spirit. If one receive the gift of healing, the other receive the gift of miracle or others; whether in corporate setting or not; are not we the Body of Christ delight to see that you both perform ?

    those healed will be delighted that they find Holy Spirit’s grace. And those who receive miracles, too, will be delighted to be receivers of Holy Spirit’s love.

    But all these will happen as we have heard:
    All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as He wills. -1 Corinthians 12:11

    What makes Holy Spirit’s will ? This is what we have heard:
    He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. -John 16:14

    What belong to our Lord Jesus Christ?
    We whom the Lord loves and He gave Himself for us.

    As we have heard: And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. -Ephesians 5:2

    Let us offer ourselves to forgive others and be a sacrifice of love by loving one another.

    Isn’t the manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit for the common good ? What can be considered good for the Body of Christ? Yes, it is love.
     
  18. spiritfilledjm

    spiritfilledjm Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Whether one is wrong or right, if one allows a non-salvation issue to cause enmity between themselves and their brother or sister, or allows it to cause them to lose their cool and show sarcasm and disrespect, they're wrong regardless.
     
  19. ARBITER01

    ARBITER01 Legend

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    Brother, you seem nice, but worrying about someone else and their salvation can get old real quick.

    Not every Christian you run across is going to be nice, in fact, Jesus Himself wasn't really nice to certain groups of people while He was here. He was more than justified in His anger at times.

    It's great when we can have fellowship with one another, but not every person that claims to be a Christian really is, especially on here.
     
  20. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    I am reminded of a crazy story that happened to me once that demonstrates some of the gifts in operation in a uncommon way. We were working on the exterior of our church, painting. When a guy came walking along the sidewalk and came up and started asking questions. I pulled up after this had began, but quickly ended up in the middle of it.

    Basically what this man did was ask some very general questions about the Bible, but was looking for very specific answers. When he didn't get the specific answer he was looking for he would begin to make accusations, but even that was weird. In this case the main question he asked was, "What did Paul write?" How do you answer that? There are many correct answers. My wife, not in a place where she was willing to get into a detailed biblical discussion (remember we are painting here) simply said, "epistles". Which is correct. I mean given how general the question is you could say, part of the Bible, epistles, scripture, list some of his books, heck "words" would be an accurate response as well. If you want to get really specific there's the question of Hebrews, or what Paul penned himself vs what someone may have written at his direction. What answer was this guy looking for? To be honest we never could get that out of him, but whatever answer we gave was wrong in his eyes.

    But this is where it gets odd. I would be standing in front of him, I'd ask a question, he'd ignore it and ask me something very general like the above, I'd give a quick answer and instead of accusing me of being wrong directly he would, tilt to the side, look over my shoulder, and talk to someone behind me to accuse me, "Did you hear that 'Bob'?" (he had learned a few of our names), "did you hear that? They don't even know _______". Remember this was not to me, but a random person behind me. Which was really frustrating. And we still don't know what he is actually asking.

    We tried to end it several times, he would begin to walk away, we would begin to walk back to the church then he'd shout more accusations about us at the people around us, which would effectively re-engage us in the conversation. This was particularly true because he kept doing it to my 14 year old daughter. You don't start yelling accusations at my child and not expect me to intervene, and he knew this.

    This went on for awhile and grew more and more frustrating until finally the Holy Spirit began to speak to me. I believe He showed me through discerning of spirits what was happening and gave me a word of wisdom on how to handle it.

    All of a sudden I knew. This man was quoting a lot of scripture, but he was doing so in an attempt to draw me into a debate about scripture, but it was a debate entirely built upon his arbitrary and unarticulated rules. And he was trying to frustrate me by talking around me to get me off my game and to draw me into participating. And at that moment through the Holy Spirit I knew what this man was doing was witchcraft.

    With that knowledge God gave me a simple word of wisdom with a simple strategy, and it worked. When that man would try to talk to someone behind me, I would take a step to the side and stand in between them so he could no longer see them and I'd look him right in the eye and say, "No! You are talking to ME right now" For the first time this made him flustered. Then I began to articulate the story of Nehemiah rebuilding Jerusalem and how Sanballat came to mock, accuse and frustrate that work. Now he got super flustered, hurled an intelligible insult and practically ran away. The Holy Spirit showed me exactly what he was doing, what spirit he was manifesting, and how to handle it. That man never repented or anything like that, I'm certain walked away telling himself he was superior like he had one upped the church, but regardless of what he may have told himself the divisive spirit at work had been exposed and it became a learning experience for all of us.
     
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