Discussion All of the Spiritual Gifts are for today

[Presbyterian Continuist]

You have no right to slice and dice scripture like that.
If NT scripture presents OT saints for examples, you cannot dissect the parts of their lives you disagree with.
If Christians had not obediently followed God's call into politics, then slavery would not have been ended.
If praying men of God were not so prevalent in our WW2 military leadership, we would never have won the war and most of the world would be speaking German or Japanese instead of English.

Of course he did, regularly.

John the Baptist dealt with Herod.

Given that Israel was a theocracy, the Jewish religious leaders were the political leaders also.

I am seriously appalled Oscarr, your theology is one of the prime reasons the western world is such a mess. When Christians abdicate responsibility in the political realm, they hand government over to SATAN.

The absence of Godly men in every institution or government department throughout western nations has been an open invitation for ungodly people to fill that void. Decades ago, the gay community made it their agenda to occupy and control every position of power, and they have succeeded beyond measure.
All possible because people believe the things you have been preaching here.

I think we are getting away from the original topic which is "all of the spiritual gifts are for today", which I believe they are, to be manifested by believers who are living holy lives, being faithful to the true Gospel of Christ, constant in prayer and fellowship with the Lord, and having a comprehensive knowledge of the Scriptures.

 

[ARBITER01]

The trump card was played to show them(prophets) all false. It is time for all to humble themselves before The Lord. It is a time for repentance.

I think you're both right.

I was just thinking about this the other day, how GOD might have taken an opportunity with this event to expose all the false prophets in the body of Christ. It would certainly be like GOD to make a decision like this, it has the manifold/multiple thought outcome, meaning more than just one result.

That election certainly made me think and ask questions with GOD about the result, but I wouldn't count on any of those folks making predictions to repent of anything though. We already see this.

 

[Francis Drake]

I think we are getting away from the original topic which is "all of the spiritual gifts are for today", which I believe they are,

If you believe that, why are you so determined to restrict a major part of that mandate, telling people that huge parts of that ministry are out of bounds?

to be manifested by believers who are living holy lives, being faithful to the true Gospel of Christ, constant in prayer and fellowship with the Lord, and having a comprehensive knowledge of the Scriptures.

Again, this is nothing like what scripture tells us.
The gifts are absolutely not given because our lives have been perfected and we possess a comprehensive knowledge of scripture

I am deeply saddened Oscarr. You put so much effort into controlling what the Spirit of God might do freely among his people.

Imagine a father constantly demanding a child shut his mouth till he learns to speak properly.

My son at three years old had a profound prophetic word for us regarding the purchase of a house. The word even had a specific deadline, after which it would be void.
He knew nothing of the scriptures, and nothing about the substitutionary death of Jesus, neither had we had taught him to prophesy, yet he clearly heard God speak.

My son's words started off with "Jesus says........................."
The word shocked us because it contradicted what the agent had just told us. My wife and I responded by going back to the Lord, who confirmed our son's word as from the Lord.

And as I said above, the word had a deadline of before we were due to leave the country, about 3 months ahead.
Two hours short of our departure, the agent phoned to ask us if we still wanted the house! That was cutting it extremely fine, but we just managed to get to his office to sign the papers before leaving.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Are you calling me a liar?

No, however it is obvious that a large group of christians have been sent a strong delusion so that they will believe a lie.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Did you write this in a hurry as despite reading it several times, I can't make sense of it.

I get that sometimes too, it happens.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I like the commentator who said that when the Corinthian believers judged prophecies that were given in their meetings, it wasn't the content of the prophecies that were evaluated, but the prophets themselves who gave them. This is the way they determined whether a prophet was true or false.

If we use this principle with anyone who manifests a spiritual gift, then we need to examine the way the person is living, their attitude to others, and what they are preaching and teaching. A person can give accurate prophecies, words of knowledge, etc., but if that person is living in adultery, misusing the funds, preaching "we are gods", accusing poor people of not having enough faith, and generally promoting himself over and above Christ, then we can know that he is a false prophet, and that even though his prophecies may sound true and even come to pass, they are actually false and God has not sent them or spoken to them.

But if a person is living a holy and blameless life, is a person of prayer and of the Word, and exalts Christ, then even if some of his prophecies may contain mistakes, he can be evaluated as a true prophet because of the person he is in Christ.

That is indeed possible based on what James said about Heavenly and Demonic wisdom. However, in one of the thessalonian letters it says to listen to all prophecies and to keep to what is good and throw away what was evil.

Despising a prophecy because of who said it, doesn't seem to follow all instructions provided regarding it.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I was just thinking about this the other day, how GOD might have taken an opportunity with this event to expose all the false prophets in the body of Christ.

I was thinking that also.

I mean usually the anti-poor voters are too conservative minded to listen to the NAR prophecy movement. It seems this caused an intersection where the two met and were disappointed.

It could indeed be providence.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

If you believe that, why are you so determined to restrict a major part of that mandate, telling people that huge parts of that ministry are out of bounds?

Again, this is nothing like what scripture tells us.
The gifts are absolutely not given because our lives have been perfected and we possess a comprehensive knowledge of scripture

I am deeply saddened Oscarr. You put so much effort into controlling what the Spirit of God might do freely among his people.

Imagine a father constantly demanding a child shut his mouth till he learns to speak properly.

My son at three years old had a profound prophetic word for us regarding the purchase of a house. The word even had a specific deadline, after which it would be void.
He knew nothing of the scriptures, and nothing about the substitutionary death of Jesus, neither had we had taught him to prophesy, yet he clearly heard God speak.

My son's words started off with "Jesus says........................."
The word shocked us because it contradicted what the agent had just told us. My wife and I responded by going back to the Lord, who confirmed our son's word as from the Lord.

And as I said above, the word had a deadline of before we were due to leave the country, about 3 months ahead.
Two hours short of our departure, the agent phoned to ask us if we still wanted the house! That was cutting it extremely fine, but we just managed to get to his office to sign the papers before leaving.

I'm trying to steer you away from concentrating on me with accusative comments. I have no doubt that there are true prophetic words being given that show God's love, grace and mercy in many situations. They show that God is involved in the lives of believers through the indwelling Holy Spirit.

There is a great difference between the true prophetic which is designed to strengthen believers' faith in Christ, comfort them in stressful situations, and exhort them to be faithful to Christ and the calling He has given them, and the false predictive prophecies of those who promote themselves as having a special ear to God that the normal rank and file believer hasn't. God is no respecter of persons. There are no "special" people on pedestals, in His view. If a believer has gifting which is powerful at strengthening the faith of others, then he has received it through the grace of God and nothing more. But these false prophets have lifted themselves up through pride, thinking they are God's people of faith and power for their generation and that people should listen to their teaching as if their teaching will bring them closer to God.

In the times when the Lord has used me in the prophetic, and that prophecies that I have given have turned out to be totally accurate, I have been just as amazed as anyone else present. My amazement is that God decided to use me in that manner in spite of my own faults and shortcomings. I think that God used me more during the storm and stress periods of my life when I thought that there was nothing about me that God would want to use - more than when I saw myself as an "upwardly mobile" deacon on the leadership of my church. I have learned that when I see myself as just a poor sinner and nothing at all, God can use me much more effectively than if I thought that I was making some progress in spirituality thereby starting to puff myself up with pride.

It is interesting that in a group of spirit-filled believers where I was used amazingly in the prophetic, they were amazed at me, because I was amazed at what was happening. They said they had never seen a Pentecostal being surprised and amazed at being used in the prophetic. They had the impression that most Pentecostals viewed being used in the prophetic as something normal and expected, and to see someone reacting in amazement was something entirely different for them. So, I think there is a snare when we start thinking that we are becoming expert in the prophetic and start expecting it to happen when we think it should.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

That is indeed possible based on what James said about Heavenly and Demonic wisdom. However, in one of the thessalonian letters it says to listen to all prophecies and to keep to what is good and throw away what was evil.

Despising a prophecy because of who said it, doesn't seem to follow all instructions provided regarding it.

It is not really "despising" a prophecy when someone gets up a gives a prophetic word, and it is revealed that the person has unconfessed serious sin in their lives, making them an unfit person to be used in this way. One of the reasons why some of the Prosperity prophets are seen as false are not the prophecies they give in many cases, but their covetous lifestyle, giving their impression that money and a luxurious lifestyle are important to them. Many would see these prophets as being false because of the impression that these prophets are in it for the money they are receiving through the contributions of the faithful who think they are giving to the work of the Lord when in reality it is going into the pockets of the prophets.

This is coupled with the scandals that have resulted in the prophets being exposed to have had extra-marital affairs, stealing ministry funds, deliberately falsifying words of knowledge through pre-meeting interviews with people, and in the case of one preacher, using wireless technology to receive information about people and purporting to have words of knowledge. Another preacher uses his smartphone to look up the facebook page of the person he is giving "words of knowledge" to make it appear that he is getting the knowledge from the Holy Spirit when in reality it is from the person's facebook page. These are the type of things that make a person disqualified to be a prophet of the Lord. Their prophecies should be rejected because they are not fit people to be used in that way, and are actually bringing the prophetic ministry into disrepute.

Also, in most Pentecostal fellowships, one has to become bonded in, and become well known as a person of faith, prayer, holiness, and fully knowledgeable in God's Word to be accepted as someone who has a genuine gift of prophecy. It is always good manners when first joining a Charismatic or Pentecostal group to write a prophecy out and giving it to the pastor and asking permission to give it, and to have a humble and teachable spirit to hold back if the pastor says, "We would like to get to know you better first". The pastor who trained me, had no hesitation in telling someone to sit down and be quiet if they start speaking rubbish. He was adamant that a person had to be one of prayer and of the Word before he could be credible in the gift of prophecy. When I was exercised to give a prophecy in his meetings, I had to know beyond doubt that it was of God, otherwise I was too nervous to give it. At one time, I gave one or who prophecies in a conference and when we got home (I was boarding with him at the time), he got out his big black Bible and wanted to talk with me. I thought, "Here we go..." But I was surprised when he encouraged me in the gift, and for him to say that to me, it was a badge of honour, because he was so very strict about how the spiritual gifts should be manifested, and if there was any doubt in his mind about my prophecies, he would have told me straight out. Being trained by an absolutely strict pastor was good training for me, even though I didn't always enjoy it at the time.

 

[topher694]

I'm trying to steer you away from concentrating on me with accusative comments.

From my view you are the one that opened the door to this, not Francis.

Your view on the prophetic is not the end all be all answer to everything prophetic. In an ironic way you come across as doing the exact thing you say should not be done, namely putting yourself on a pedestal. Albeit in a different more indirect way. This forum is designed for us to encourage one another and expand our understanding, not stifle those that don't do it exactly how we think they should. Sure, disagreements are bound to happen, but as I said before, I think this conversation crossed the line of simple disagreement quite awhile ago.

 

[GTW27]

I think you're both right.

I was just thinking about this the other day, how GOD might have taken an opportunity with this event to expose all the false prophets in the body of Christ. It would certainly be like GOD to make a decision like this, it has the manifold/multiple thought outcome, meaning more than just one result.

That election certainly made me think and ask questions with GOD about the result, but I wouldn't count on any of those folks making predictions to repent of anything though. We already see this.

Blessings in Christ Jesus! Finally one who is not an attacker. You will know them by their fruit, and indeed this has come to pass on this thread. And the election was The Lord's doing. This country is being humbled as they have turned their back on The Lord and yet they say "God bless America." They can not see what is coming in the wind and yet the fire is already kindled. Take the words written in here, that Oscar attacked, and after the next election, plug them in, and see if the description fits, for that train is coming again. And behind that train, is another, far worse, who's stage will be the world. And thank you attackers for making my Father's Word's come to pass. In that I will rejoice. And Let us all rejoice in The Lord Jesus and not be found in shame on The Day of His appearance. And The Lord says, "plug it in My son". These may be the last words I write, but that is ok, it has never been about me, for I am nothing and He is all.

 

[topher694]

Blessings in Christ Jesus! Finally one who is not an attacker. You will know them by their fruit, and indeed this has come to pass on this thread. And the election was The Lord's doing. This country is being humbled as they have turned their back on The Lord and yet they say "God bless America." They can not see what is coming in the wind and yet the fire is already kindled. Take the words written in here, that Oscar attacked, and after the next election, plug them in, and see if the description fits, for that train is coming again. And behind that train, is another, far worse, who's stage will be the world. And thank you attackers for making my Father's Word's come to pass. In that I will rejoice. And Let us all rejoice in The Lord Jesus and not be found in shame on The Day of His appearance. And The Lord says, "plug it in My son". These may be the last words I write, but that is ok, it has never been about me, for I am nothing and He is all.

You never answered my question

 

[lismore]

You will know them by their fruit, and indeed this has come to pass on this thread. And the election was The Lord's doing.

Times of pruning can make the church stronger - John 15. Being vigilant and alert. God Bless

 

[Joan Lamb]

The 'prophets' wanted Trump to win because of their political agenda. It had nothing to with the will of God or the Kingdom of God. Trump, a controversial man, who joked on camera about sexually assaulting women, who was paying off a inappropriate content star he committed adultery with, who was in his third marriage etcetera. Who when pressed couldn't name one verse or one book of the bible. The list of why Trump could not even remotely be seen as a Godly candidate is long.

Kyrie eleison.

I was saddened to see Donald Trump's childlike reaction to his loss of the election and wondered why anyone, prophet or no, would think God had sent him. The whole sad saga brought untold reproach onto the gospel of Christ.

'Better is a poor man who walks in his integrity than a rich man who is crooked in his ways'.

 

[topher694]

I was saddened to see Donald Trump's childlike reaction to his loss of the election and wondered why anyone, prophet or no, would think God had sent him. The whole sad saga brought untold reproach onto the gospel of Christ.

'Better is a poor man who walks in his integrity than a rich man who is crooked in his ways'.

You sound exactly like the Pharisees talking to Jesus.

God used sinners, tax collectors, even a donkey, yet you seem to know better than Him whom He can use and cannot use. Ok then.

 

[perpendicular_bisector]

.

 

[ARBITER01]

I was saddened to see Donald Trump's childlike reaction to his loss of the election and wondered why anyone, prophet or no, would think God had sent him. The whole sad saga brought untold reproach onto the gospel of Christ.

'Better is a poor man who walks in his integrity than a rich man who is crooked in his ways'.

A lot of folks, such as yourself, don't see how important a chess piece Mr. Trump was for GOD.

 

[tturt]

For those who let Scripture guide them. In regards to prophesy -
Moses said to Joshua "...would God that all the Lord's people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them!." Num 11:29

New Testament:
''For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted." I Cor 14:31

'Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues." v39

 

[Landon Caeli]

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