All Israel Will Be Saved ?

[Davy]

There was remnant at that time. But you said as though it was future is all.
I think it speaks to the wrath that was coming which John spoke. Which came in 70 ad

You do realize that "the remnant according to the election of grace" at that time in Paul's day was NOT the unbelieving Jews, right?

That remnant under grace were those in Christ Jesus, and that which God had preserved unto Himself since back to Elias.

Paul's brethren that rejected Jesus was a different group, the Jews. Those are the ones written about at the end of Zechariah 12 that when Jesus returns, they will mourn for Him like a long-lost son. Those are the ones who will wish for the mountains and hills to fall upon them because of their shame for having rejected Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ.

And Paul tells us in that Romans 11 chapter that God is Who caused that, having put the 'spirit of stupor' upon the majority of the "house of Judah"(Jews) so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles. Paul then showed when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in (at Christ's coming), then that blindness stupor will be removed. Then the unbelieving Jews will see Christ as He is, and those Jews who understand what they did will feel shame. Many of them will then convert to Jesus.

 

[ralliann]

You do realize that "the remnant according to the election of grace" at that time in Paul's day was NOT the unbelieving Jews, right?

Yes.

That remnant under grace were those in Christ Jesus, and that which God had preserved unto Himself since back to Elias.

I understand, those of the circumcision escaped the wrath that was upon them. John preached that wrath. Christ's disciples continued that ministry.

Paul's brethren that rejected Jesus was a different group, the Jews. Those are the ones written about at the end of Zechariah 12 that when Jesus returns, they will mourn for Him like a long-lost son. Those are the ones who will wish for the mountains and hills to fall upon them because of their shame for having rejected Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ.

And Paul tells us in that Romans 11 chapter that God is Who caused that, having put the 'spirit of stupor' upon the majority of the "house of Judah"(Jews) so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles. Paul then showed when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in (at Christ's coming), then that blindness stupor will be removed. Then the unbelieving Jews will see Christ as He is, and those Jews who understand what they did will feel shame. Many of them will then convert to Jesus.

The judgement on Gentiles will come later. We escape that in Christ as well.
That is what the law says. We are not judged by the law, Jews are. But the law does prophecy that when they accept their punishment, then the nations will be judged upon how they treated Israel. It is about times for each.

 

[Davy]

Yes.

I understand, those of the circumcision escaped the wrath that was upon them. John preached that wrath. Christ's disciples continued that ministry.

The judgement on Gentiles will come later. We escape that in Christ as well.
That is what the law says. We are not judged by the law, Jews are. But the law does prophecy that when they accept their punishment, then the nations will be judged upon how they treated Israel. It is about times for each.

I have to say this right off: no one can be saved by following the law. The law cannot save. Only those who believe on Jesus Christ will be saved.

And the remnant according to the election of grace wasn't only about the disciples and Apostles of Christ. God preserved a seed from among Israel from the beginning, long before Jesus was born through woman's womb, and that's who Paul was pointing to with what God told Elias.

 

[ralliann]

I have to say this right off: no one can be saved by following the law. The law cannot save. Only those who believe on Jesus Christ will be saved.

Yes?

And the remnant according to the election of grace wasn't only about the disciples and Apostles of Christ.

But the wrath upon Isreal was upon Jews.

God preserved a seed from among Israel from the beginning, long before Jesus was born through woman's womb, and that's who Paul was pointing to with what God told Elias.

Ok. Christs sacrifice began a new covenant, in Christs baptism. Eternal inheritance is by the new covenant, for Jew and Gentile.
Wrath likewise to those apart from it. The law brings wrath.

 

[Davy]

Yes?

But the wrath upon Isreal was upon Jews.

What wrath are you talking about? If you're referring to the 6th Seal that has not happened yet today, and won't until Christ's future return. God's wrath on that day will be upon anyone... that either refuses Christ, or that worships another in place of Christ. And not all those will be destroyed either, because Zech.14 reveals even leftovers that come up against Jerusalem will still exist after Christ's return, and will be made to come up from year to year to worship The LORD at Jerusalem and keep the feast of tabernacles.

Ok. Christs sacrifice began a new covenant, in Christs baptism. Eternal inheritance is by the new covenant, for Jew and Gentile.
Wrath likewise to those apart from it. The law brings wrath.

Lack of Faith on Jesus Christ is what brings wrath, not the law. Lord Jesus made that point more than once...

John 8:24
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am He, ye shall die in your sins.
KJV

Mark 16:16
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
KJV

The idea of the law is not the judge, but the executioner, and it only exists if one refuses to believe by Faith on Jesus Christ. Because God gives each a choice to believe or not to believe, it means He allows us to become our 'own' judge of ourselves.

 

[hedrick]

It seems clear in the context that Paul is referring to Israel as a nation, I.e. by descent. I do not think he held any weird apocalyptic models that some have described,

So this looks like a prediction that before Jesus comes again, all Jews will have become followers of Jesus. Of course if Paul is universalist the statement is more obvious, but none of my Romans commentaries think he is.

 

[ralliann]

What wrath are you talking about?

The wrath that John the baptist warned was coming! The wrath that the law fortetells concerning Israel. To escape it.

Which baptism Christs disciples administered during his earthy ministry, and beyond to the Jew's.
Ac 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
It fell in 70 ad.

 

[Andrewn]

So this looks like a prediction that before Jesus comes again, all Jews will have become followers of Jesus.

Not only all Jews will have become followers of Jesus, but also all Gentiles as well:

Rom 11:25-26 a hardening has come upon part of Israel until the full number of the gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved,

Rom 11:32 For God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that he may be merciful to all.

Of course if Paul is universalist the statement is more obvious, but none of my Romans commentaries think he is.

Commentaries avoid universalist implications. Unless we understand "all" to mean all the elect of Gentiles and Jews, the mystery could not have been relevant to Paul's readers in the 1st century if it did not imply some universalism.

 

[hedrick]

Not only all Jews will have become followers of Jesus, but also all Gentiles as well:

Rom 11:25-26 a hardening has come upon part of Israel until the full number of the gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved,

Rom 11:32 For God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that he may be merciful to all.


Commentaries avoid universalist implications. Unless we understand "all" to mean all the elect of Gentiles and Jews, the mystery could not have been relevant to Paul's readers in the 1st century if it did not imply some universalism.

Yes, Gentiles are there too.

Dunn’s Romans commentary says that Paul has to be understood as believing eschatological universalism. He doesn’t define it, but I assume it means that by the end all follow Christ. In Rom 11:32 all clearly means all. But it could mean all alive at that time. How much beyond that is included is pretty much the sole topic in Controversial Christian Theology.

 

[Davy]

All Israel Will Be Saved
Romans 11
25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.
26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:“The Deliverer will come from Zion;He will remove godlessness from Jacob.
27 And this is My covenant with them when I take away their sins.
14 in the hope that I may provoke my own people to jealousy and save some of them.

Romans 9
6 It is not as though God’s word has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.
7 Nor because they are Abraham’s descendants are they all his children. On the contrary, “Through Isaac your offspring will be reckoned.”
8 So it is not the children of the flesh who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as offspring.

27 Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the Israelites is like the sand of the sea, only the remnant will be saved.
28 For the Lord will carry out His sentence on the earth thoroughly and decisively.”

I have always struggled in understanding what is being said here, would love to get the thoughts . In Romans 11 verse 26 it clearly says all of Israel will be saved. yet earlier in that same chapter is clearly shows Paul to be suggesting only some of them will we saved.

After going back in the book of Romans it seems, just because you are a Jew does not mean you belong to Israel ?? I get this from Romans 9 verse 6 and 7.

....

Really need to have studied the Old Testament Books also to understand what Paul said.

God has said that HE will have mercy, and forgive His chosen seed, and purify them, and gather them all, in final, even the lost ten tribes of Israel. The fact that God chose a specific 'seed' to represent His Salvation, and many of them rebelled through their history, does not mean He forgot them. This point Apostle Paul made when he said,

Rom 11:28-29
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
KJV

When Lord Jesus returns, everyone will understand why He has a 'chosen seed'.

Apostle Paul is one of the strongest examples of a 'chosen' one. Before Lord Jesus struck Paul (called Saul then) down on the road to Damascus, he was working for the Pharisees in hunting down Christians, and bringing them back to Jerusalem for trial. So Paul did not choose to become a Christian and believe The Gospel. Instead, Lord Jesus 'Divinely' influenced Apostle Paul's believe in Him, and forced Paul into His service. That is an example of a 'chosen vessel', which Lord Jesus called Paul. What all does that mean then, a chosen vessel?

In John 17, with Lord Jesus' prayer, He revealed more about His chosen Apostles. The Greek meaning for the word Apostle means 'to be sent'. They were thus 'chosen' and 'sent', and Jesus showed His Apostles were already owned by The Father when He gave them to Jesus. Like I said, all will better understand why this is when Lord Jesus returns in our near future.

We are not all 'chosen' sent ones like Christ's Apostles, nor even like the Old Testament prophets and patriarchs.

Many brethren desire to be a chosen Apostle, but that's not enough. And some, because they don't like the idea that 'some' are chosen 'sent ones', but they are not, bugs them like it's unfair, so they try to change what God Himself has ordained for this world.

Being 'called' only is not the same thing as being a 'sent one', an Apostle. Most of us are 'called' only, which is really what Ephesians 1 is about.

So all that above being understood, notice that Paul specifically showed that GOD HIMSELF put the "spirit of slumber" upon those blinded Jews he was talking about...

Rom 11:7-11
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
KJV

How then, can those spiritually blinded Jews make their choice to believe on Jesus of Nazareth as Messiah with that "spirit of slumber" God put upon them? I mean, it's even ignorance on our part if we say they are already condemned for not believing of Jesus Christ today!

Likewise, how can one know that only 'some' of them will believe on Jesus, and not all of them, once that blindness is removed at Jesus' future coming???

So when Paul said all Israel will be saved, I'm not so sure that was just wishful thinking on his part. I believe Paul meant what he said based on what God promised the 'seed' of Israel in final.

 

[Clare73]

Really need to have studied the Old Testament Books also to understand what Paul said.

God has said that HE will have mercy, and forgive His chosen seed, and purify them, and gather them all, in final, even the lost ten tribes of Israel. The fact that God chose a specific 'seed' to represent His Salvation, and many of them rebelled through their history, does not mean He forgot them. This point Apostle Paul made when he said,

Rom 11:28-29
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
KJV

Keeping in mind that in the context (Ro 11:25-29), the irrevocable gifts and call are being fulfilled in a remnant (Ro 11:5).
There are no more promises to Israel, all have been fulfilled, except the conditional promise of being grafted back into the one olive tree of God's people, the church of both OT and NT saints, going all the way back to Abraham (Ro 11:16-29), IF (not "when") they do not persist in unbelief, in which they have persisted for over 2,000 years now, and counting.

When Lord Jesus returns, everyone will understand why He has a 'chosen seed'.
Apostle Paul is one of the strongest examples of a 'chosen' one. Before Lord Jesus struck Paul (called Saul then) down on the road to Damascus, he was working for the Pharisees in hunting down Christians, and bringing them back to Jerusalem for trial. So Paul did not choose to become a Christian and believe The Gospel. Instead, Lord Jesus 'Divinely' influenced Apostle Paul's believe in Him, and forced Paul into His service. That is an example of a 'chosen vessel', which Lord Jesus called Paul. What all does that mean then, a chosen vessel?

In John 17, with Lord Jesus' prayer, He revealed more about His chosen Apostles. The Greek meaning for the word Apostle means 'to be sent'. They were thus 'chosen' and 'sent', and Jesus showed His Apostles were already owned by The Father when He gave them to Jesus. Like I said, all will better understand why this is when Lord Jesus returns in our near future.

We are not all 'chosen' sent ones like Christ's Apostles, nor even like the Old Testament prophets and patriarchs.

Many brethren desire to be a chosen Apostle, but that's not enough. And some, because they don't like the idea that 'some' are chosen 'sent ones', but they are not, bugs them like it's unfair, so they try to change what God Himself has ordained for this world.

Being 'called' only is not the same thing as being a 'sent one', an Apostle. Most of us are 'called' only, which is really what Ephesians 1 is about.

So all that above being understood, notice that Paul specifically showed that GOD HIMSELF put the "spirit of slumber" upon those blinded Jews he was talking about...

Rom 11:7-11
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
KJV

How then, can those spiritually blinded Jews make their choice to believe on Jesus of Nazareth as Messiah with that "spirit of slumber" God put upon them? I mean, it's even ignorance on our part if we say they are already condemned for not believing of Jesus Christ today!

Likewise, how can one know that only 'some' of them will believe on Jesus, and not all of them, once that blindness is removed at Jesus' future coming???

So when Paul said all Israel will be saved, I'm not so sure that was just wishful thinking on his part. I believe Paul meant what he said based on what God promised the 'seed' of Israel in final.

 

[ralliann]

Really need to have studied the Old Testament Books also to understand what Paul said.

God has said that HE will have mercy, and forgive His chosen seed, and purify them, and gather them all, in final, even the lost ten tribes of Israel. The fact that God chose a specific 'seed' to represent His Salvation, and many of them rebelled through their history, does not mean He forgot them. This point Apostle Paul made when he said,

Rom 11:28-29
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
KJV

When Lord Jesus returns, everyone will understand why He has a 'chosen seed'.

Apostle Paul is one of the strongest examples of a 'chosen' one. Before Lord Jesus struck Paul (called Saul then) down on the road to Damascus, he was working for the Pharisees in hunting down Christians, and bringing them back to Jerusalem for trial. So Paul did not choose to become a Christian and believe The Gospel. Instead, Lord Jesus 'Divinely' influenced Apostle Paul's believe in Him, and forced Paul into His service. That is an example of a 'chosen vessel', which Lord Jesus called Paul. What all does that mean then, a chosen vessel?

In John 17, with Lord Jesus' prayer, He revealed more about His chosen Apostles. The Greek meaning for the word Apostle means 'to be sent'. They were thus 'chosen' and 'sent', and Jesus showed His Apostles were already owned by The Father when He gave them to Jesus. Like I said, all will better understand why this is when Lord Jesus returns in our near future.

We are not all 'chosen' sent ones like Christ's Apostles, nor even like the Old Testament prophets and patriarchs.

Many brethren desire to be a chosen Apostle, but that's not enough. And some, because they don't like the idea that 'some' are chosen 'sent ones', but they are not, bugs them like it's unfair, so they try to change what God Himself has ordained for this world.

Being 'called' only is not the same thing as being a 'sent one', an Apostle. Most of us are 'called' only, which is really what Ephesians 1 is about.

So all that above being understood, notice that Paul specifically showed that GOD HIMSELF put the "spirit of slumber" upon those blinded Jews he was talking about...

Rom 11:7-11
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
KJV

How then, can those spiritually blinded Jews make their choice to believe on Jesus of Nazareth as Messiah with that "spirit of slumber" God put upon them? I mean, it's even ignorance on our part if we say they are already condemned for not believing of Jesus Christ today!

Likewise, how can one know that only 'some' of them will believe on Jesus, and not all of them, once that blindness is removed at Jesus' future coming???

So when Paul said all Israel will be saved, I'm not so sure that was just wishful thinking on his part. I believe Paul meant what he said based on what God promised the 'seed' of Israel in final.

Ro 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
The circumcision, is judged by the law, Gentiles are apart from that.
IMO, that is why the Gospel's spoke to Jew's. It was God's wrath that was coming upon the circumcsion. John came and warned them to flee. It was a specific judgement Because Jew's (not Gentiles) are judged by the law.
But when we read the Gospels Why do we treat God's judgement all the same? On the one hand we speak of Israel being "set apart", yet there is no setting them apart in Judgement as Paul indicates. The Gospel. Why can't we look at the Gospel's as a judgement that is distinct from the nations there? Wrath and the curses by the law, specific to Jew's at that time? To Escape it in Messiah? Why is this salvation from the curse and wrath coming on those JUDGED BY THE LAW, seen as somehow different than God's wrath falling upon Israel in times past? Why is 70 ad ignored? What is different is the Salvation brought to Gentiles. But for the nation of Israel, they stand no different than they did with any other wrath in times past. They have not lost their place. It is the timing is all. The faithful Jew, though blinded right now, will be saved IN CHRIST in his own good timing.

 

[ralliann]

Keeping in mind that in the context (Ro 11:25-29), the irrevocable gifts and call are being fulfilled in a remnant (Ro 11:5).
There are no more promises to Israel, all have been fulfilled, except the conditional promise of being grafted back into the one olive tree of God's people, the church of both OT and NT saints, going all the way back to Abraham (Ro 11:16-29), IF (not "when") they do not persist in unbelief, in which they have persisted for over 2,000 years now, and counting.

You say no more promises, then except? The remnant escaped God's judgment on Israel. Why does this make them in any different standing than the nation always had before? The promises made to Abraham are being made full in the Church. those promises include the nations. We now in Christ have received faith we did not in times past. Why is Israel as a nation any different than in times past now? Just curious as to the answer Clare.

 

[Clare73]

You say no more promises, then except?

Well, I was referring to covenant promises, which Ro 11:23 is not.

The remnant escaped God's judgment on Israel. Why does this make them in any different standing than the nation always had before?
The promises made to Abraham are being made full in the Church. those promises include the nations. We now in Christ have received faith we did not in times past. Why is Israel as a nation any different than in times past now? Just curious as to the answer Clare.

My reference is to the Jews themelves, not to a nation.

 

[ralliann]

Well, I was referring to covenant promises, which Ro 11:23 is not.

My reference is to the Jews themelves, not to a nation.

Thanks Clare. I have just been thinking about this the last few weeks is all. I respect your opinions and thought I would ask.

 

[Davy]

Ro 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
The circumcision, is judged by the law, Gentiles are apart from that.
IMO, that is why the Gospel's spoke to Jew's. It was God's wrath that was coming upon the circumcsion. John came and warned them to flee. It was a specific judgement Because Jew's (not Gentiles) are judged by the law.
But when we read the Gospels Why do we treat God's judgement all the same? On the one hand we speak of Israel being "set apart", yet there is no setting them apart in Judgement as Paul indicates. The Gospel. Why can't we look at the Gospel's as a judgement that is distinct from the nations there? Wrath and the curses by the law, specific to Jew's at that time? To Escape it in Messiah? Why is this salvation from the curse and wrath coming on those JUDGED BY THE LAW, seen as somehow different than God's wrath falling upon Israel in times past? Why is 70 ad ignored? What is different is the Salvation brought to Gentiles. But for the nation of Israel, they stand no different than they did with any other wrath in times past. They have not lost their place. It is the timing is all. The faithful Jew, though blinded right now, will be saved IN CHRIST in his own good timing.

Christ's Salvation is for everyone... that believes, and inherit WITH faithful Abraham. Inherit what? Inherit the Promises God promised the chosen seed of Israel. So if a saved remnant of the chosen seed no longer exists, then there would no longer be God's Promises He first gave to Abraham that then went to the seed of Israel, and then through Christ's Church. Also see Ephesians 2:11-22.

Zech 8:22-23
22 Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the LORD.

23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, "We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you."
KJV


God has spoken, He is never going to cast off His chosen seed of Israel as a nation...

Jer 31:35-37
35 Thus saith the LORD, Which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is His name:

36 If those ordinances depart from before Me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before Me for ever.

37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
KJV

 

[ralliann]

Christ's Salvation is for everyone... that believes, and inherit WITH faithful Abraham. Inherit what? Inherit the Promises God promised the chosen seed of Israel.

First, it is for everyone. Second We inherit with Abraham the promises to HIM. We are all promised to Abraham, in Christ Jesus.

So if a saved remnant of the chosen seed no longer exists, then there would no longer be God's Promises He first gave to Abraham that then went to the seed of Israel, and then through Christ's Church. Also see Ephesians 2:11-22.

We are not the seed of Isaac, but Abraham. We are not the Children of Jacob, but Abraham. We do not need to be called in Isaac, nor children of Jacob.

Zech 8:22-23
22 Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the LORD.

23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, "We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you."
KJV


God has spoken, He is never going to cast off His chosen seed of Israel as a nation...

Jer 31:35-37
35 Thus saith the LORD, Which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is His name:

36 If those ordinances depart from before Me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before Me for ever.

37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
KJV

Simply put.....The fact that we in the Church are saved in Christ, does not make the promise to the nation of Israel through Isaac, disannulled does it? I believe it is about "timing". God made promises to Abraham. These promises concerned the circumcision, and the uncircumcision. The time for the uncircumcision came in and through Jesus, not Isaac. The question remains. Why can't Israel also be saved at a later time? Is the promises void to them? I do not believe so.

 

[Davy]

First, it is for everyone. Second We inherit with Abraham the promises to HIM. We are all promised to Abraham, in Christ Jesus.

We cannot TRY to separate God's Promises to Abraham from the children of Israel.

God's Promises to Abraham involved GOD's BIRTHRIGHT. You've heard of a father's birthright to his firstborn son, right? Well GOD Himself has a Birthright that He gave to His elect of the children of Israel. And even though Abraham lived prior to the seed of Israel, those Promises to Abraham were inherited by Israel. And it went specifically to Abraham's son Isaac, then to his son Jacob, and then to his son Joseph, and then finally to his two sons Ephraim and Manasseh, where the Birthright still is to this day (1 Chronicles 5).

And per Genesis 48, Ephraim's seed was to become "a multitude of nations". And his brother Manasseh was also to become a "great" nation. That happened in the Christian West when the western nations turned away from all their pagan Baal idols that God scattered the ten tribes for, and they first, with believing Gentiles, converted to Christ Jesus. That is how Ephraim's seed fulfilled the "multitude of nations" prophecy that Jacob gave to him. And per Genesis 35, God had promised Jacob that his seed would "a nation, and a company of nations." So that is what Jacob transferred to Ephraim. And going back to what God's promised Abraham, a great number of seed was one of those promises.

Now of course the JEWS do not want that Old Testament history known, because they want the world to think that they only... make up God's chosen seed of Israel, which simply is not true per Bible history either! The ten northern tribes of the "house of Israel" made up the majority of the children of Israel when God scattered them for doing idol worship against Him. The Jews only were made up of the 3 tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi, as it still is today (see 1 Kings 11 to 2 Kings 17). Once again, very, very few Churches take time to teach that Bible history.

Because you do not realize this, is no doubt because of a wrongful approach to the study of Old Testament history. Very few Churches teach the "strong meat" of God's Word, but only stay on the "milk". So there are plenty Scriptures written in the Old Testament that teach about The Gospel and those who knew about it. Abraham simply represented the first to know. And Apostle Paul in Romans 9 mentioned Isaac in that inheritance.

 

[Clare73]

We cannot TRY to separate God's Promises to Abraham from the children of Israel.

Authoritative NT apostolic teaching does just that in Gal 3:16.

 

[Soyeong]

All Israel Will Be Saved
Romans 11
25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.
26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:“The Deliverer will come from Zion;He will remove godlessness from Jacob.
27 And this is My covenant with them when I take away their sins.
14 in the hope that I may provoke my own people to jealousy and save some of them.

The idea that all Israel will be saved has led some to mistakenly think that all someone needs to do to become saved it to go through the conversion process of becoming a Jew, which involves circumcision, and which is a position that Paul opposed both on the grounds that the purpose for which God commanded circumcision was not in order to become saved and the grounds that a Jew is not someone who merely has outward circumcision of the flesh, but also who has inward circumcision of the heart expressed through their obedience to God's law (Romans 2:13-29).

Romans 9
6 It is not as though God’s word has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.
7 Nor because they are Abraham’s descendants are they all his children. On the contrary, “Through Isaac your offspring will be reckoned.”
8 So it is not the children of the flesh who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as offspring.

27 Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the Israelites is like the sand of the sea, only the remnant will be saved.
28 For the Lord will carry out His sentence on the earth thoroughly and decisively.”


I have always struggled in understanding what is being said here, would love to get the thoughts . In Romans 11 verse 26 it clearly says all of Israel will be saved. yet earlier in that same chapter is clearly shows Paul to be suggesting only some of them will we saved.

After going back in the book of Romans it seems, just because you are a Jew does not mean you belong to Israel ?? I get this from Romans 9 verse 6 and 7.

It seems to me in Verse 8 suggesting that just because you are Jewish does not make you part of God's Children. It also seems That Israel is considered God's children. It seems that in verse 8 all are God's Children are that which have received the promise form Abraham. So maybe just maybe all those in Christ, Jew or Greek are part of the spiritual Israel referred to as God Children?? This way it make sense when it says all of Israel will be saved in Romans 11 verse 26. Other wise it seems to be a conflict when it says all Israel will be saved, in Romans 11-26, and then in Romans 9-27 says only a remnant will be saved.

So in order to correctly understand what it means for all Israel to be saved we need to correctly understand what it means to be a child of Israel and what it means to have faith in the promise. In John 8:39, Jesus said that if they were children of Abraham, then they would be doing the same works as him, so the children of Abraham are not multiplied in accordance with faith in the promise through having physical descendants, but through blessing others by teaching them to do the same works as Abraham. A chip off the old block is someone who has the same character or nature as their father expressed through doing the same things as him, so this is the sense that Jesus is the Son of God insofar as he is the exact image of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3), which he expresses through setting a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to His law, and that is also the sense that we are children of God through faith in Christ when we are partaking in his nature by following his example. This is also why those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to God's law are not children of God (1 John 3:4-10) and why those who are born again of the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who refuse to submit to God's law (Romans 8:4-14).

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and God's law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of he Kingdom, which is in accordance with Jesus being sent in fulfillment of the promise to bless us by turning us from our wickedness, which is the Gospel that was made known in advance to Abraham in accordance with the promise (Galatians 3:8), and which he taught to Gentiles living in Haran in accordance with the promise (Genesis 12:1-5).

In Genesis 18:19, God knew Abraham that he would teach his children and those of his household to walk in His way by doing righteousness and justice that the Lord may bring to him all that He has promises. In Genesis 25:4-5, God will multiply Abraham's children as the stars in the heaven, to his children He will give all of these lands, and through his children all of the nations of the earth will be blessed because Abraham heard God's voice and guarded His charge, His commandments, His statutes, and His laws. In Deuteronomy 30:16, if they love God by walking in His way in obedience to His commandments, statutes, and laws, then they will live and multiply and God will bless them in the land that they go to possess. So the promise was made to Abraham and brought about because he walked in God's way in obedience to His law, he spread the Gospel of the Kingdom by teaching his children how to do that, and because his children also did that. This means that the children of Israel are all those who have also been taught to do that in through faith in the promise in accordance with spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom, and it is all of these people will be saved in accordance with Isaiah 45:17

Galatians 2
26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.

In 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked, and in Romans 3;31, our faith upholds God's law, so every aspect of being children of God, in Christ, through faith, being children of Abraham, and heirs to the promise is all directly connected with living in obedience to God's law.