All Israel Will Be Saved ?

rwb

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Could tell from the part of your post that I quoted. =)

I don't try to hide it. I believe the only way one can understand Scripture without forcing contradiction is by understanding a thousand years is not literal, but symbolizing time between the first advent of Christ' coming to earth a man, and His coming again in glory.
 
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Guojing

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I don't try to hide it. I believe the only way one can understand Scripture without forcing contradiction is by understanding a thousand years is not literal, but symbolizing time between the first advent of Christ' coming to earth a man, and His coming again in glory.

Yes, you will find quite a number of fellow Christians who share your views in this forum. =)
 
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Davy

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All Israel Will Be Saved
Romans 11
25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.
26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:“The Deliverer will come from Zion;He will remove godlessness from Jacob.
27 And this is My covenant with them when I take away their sins.
14 in the hope that I may provoke my own people to jealousy and save some of them.

Romans 9
6 It is not as though God’s word has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.
7 Nor because they are Abraham’s descendants are they all his children. On the contrary, “Through Isaac your offspring will be reckoned.”
8 So it is not the children of the flesh who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as offspring.

27 Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: Though the number of the Israelites is like the sand of the sea, only the remnant will be saved.
28 For the Lord will carry out His sentence on the earth thoroughly and decisively.”



I have always struggled in understanding what is being said here, would love to get the thoughts . In Romans 11 verse 26 it clearly says all of Israel will be saved. yet earlier in that same chapter is clearly shows Paul to be suggesting only some of them will we saved.

After going back in the book of Romans it seems, just because you are a Jew does not mean you belong to Israel ?? I get this from Romans 9 verse 6 and 7.
....

I really don't understand why so many brethren struggle with understanding what Paul said in Romans 11 about all Israel being saved. And Paul was literally speaking of His brethren Israelites born of the seed of Israel.

In that Romans 11 Chapter, Paul made it clear that the reason why so many Jews reject Jesus is because of the 'spirit of slumber' God placed upon them so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles. So God Himself blinded them away from The Gospel.

So let me ask this. If God Himself blinded them away... from The Gospel, then did they make the choice to reject Lord Jesus, and are they accountable in that blinded state? NO, which basically is what Paul is showing in the later Romans 11:25-30 verses.

Rom 11:23
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
KJV


ONLY once their blindness is removed... will they have their opportunity to either accept Jesus or reject Him. And that time for most of the Jews won't come until the 'fulness of the Gentiles' comes in according to Paul, which means the day of Christ's future return.


Rom 11:25-29
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, 'There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.'

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
KJV

Thus we cannot really say at this time the unbelieving Jews are condemned already. We do not yet know who among them will believe on Jesus Christ once their blindness is removed in the future at Christ's coming. This is why Apostle Paul told us to not be conceited because we already have believed on Jesus Christ.
 
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rwb

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I really don't understand why so many brethren struggle with understanding what Paul said in Romans 11 about all Israel being saved. And Paul was literally speaking of His brethren Israelites born of the seed of Israel.

In that Romans 11 Chapter, Paul made it clear that the reason why so many Jews reject Jesus is because of the 'spirit of slumber' God placed upon them so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles. So God Himself blinded them away from The Gospel.

So let me ask this. If God Himself blinded them away... from The Gospel, then did they make the choice to reject Lord Jesus, and are they accountable in that blinded state? NO, which basically is what Paul is showing in the later Romans 11:25-30 verses.

Rom 11:23
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
KJV


ONLY once their blindness is removed... will they have their opportunity to either accept Jesus or reject Him. And that time for most of the Jews won't come until the 'fulness of the Gentiles' comes in according to Paul, which means the day of Christ's future return.

Rom 11:25-29
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, 'There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.'

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
KJV

Thus we cannot really say at this time the unbelieving Jews are condemned already. We do not yet know who among them will believe on Jesus Christ once their blindness is removed in the future at Christ's coming. This is why Apostle Paul told us to not be conceited because we already have believed on Jesus Christ.

The spirit of slumber given the Jews, eyes they could not see, ears they could not hear is no different then all of unbelieving humankind. You're forgetting about the election of God.

Romans 11:7-8 (KJV) What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

Paul begins by telling us that God has not cast away His people which He foreknew. Paul says remember I too am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. So even with the spirit of slumber it is plain to see that God will save His people. Just as in the days of Elijah when God reserved 7000 men who had not bowed to Baal, so too in the days of Paul God had reserved a remnant according to election of grace. Salvation has always been by grace through faith, and is not according to man's will, but God's will.

Apart from the grace of God, all of humanity stands condemned to death from the fall. Had God not chosen to save some people according to election of grace, then no people would be saved. Remember the words of Paul from Ro 3 "there are none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understands, there is none that seeks after God."

The natural Jew, or Jew according to the flesh, like all of humanity walked in their own way before the advent of Christ. But since Christ has come, all men are called to repent and believe the Gospel.

Acts 14:15-16 (KJV) And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein: Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.

Acts 17:30-31 (KJV) And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Today is the day of salvation! Today, in this age we are all called to repent and believe Christ, turn to Him to be saved. This call for repentance and belief is for natural Jews as well as Gentiles, for since Christ came there is no difference. There is now only those of faith, and those of unbelief. The Gospel, or message of Christ's life, death and resurrection is freely given to all humankind, so that none have excuse. None can say, but God has blinded me so I cannot hear or see. God uses His Gospel of Christ to save His people, and whosoever is ordained unto eternal life will be saved.

Acts 13:45-49 (KJV) But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming. Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.

When Paul says "all Israel shall be saved" he is not speaking of natural, ethnic people, but the people of God, the Israel of God, where there is no difference what nation one is from. For in Christ there is only one people, who are neither Jew nor Gentile, but Christians. When Gentiles are grafted into Christ by grace through faith with Israelites of faith is how "all Israel" shall be saved.

Galatians 6:15-16 (KJV) For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
 
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Davy

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The spirit of slumber given the Jews, eyes they could not see, ears they could not hear is no different then all of unbelieving humankind. You're forgetting about the election of God.

Your first statement that the "spirit of slumber" Paul mentioned isn't any different for the Jews than any other people immediately REMOVES WHAT PAUL TAUGHT in Romans 11 about that, and that regardless of what you may think about the idea of God's election.

I choose NOT to remove what Paul said in Romans 11:7-8, and Romans 11:23, and Romans 11:25-32. But that is exactly what your statement above I underlined does.

And because of that, I won't waste my time reading the rest of your post.
 
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anetazo

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Romans chapter 11, the jews were grafted out. Israel and gentiles are grafted in. Jews reject Jesus and sound doctrine. The Torah is the Talmud. Its Jewish traditions. Its contrary to Gods word. Jesus rejected the Talmud. John chapter 3, many people stay in darkness. They wont come to the light, less thier deeds be examined. Some people don't want accountability and don't want to carry their cross daily. Isaiah chapter 29:13. For as much as this people draw near Me with their mouth and with thier lips do honor me, but have removed thier heart far from Me, and their fear toward Me taught by the precepts of men; Some churches teach tradition of men and false doctrine. Some people are playing church. Its lip service. Thier empty souls. Remember John chapter 3, some people are not coming to the light. At the end of millennium, some people won't be counted worthy for eternal life. Because they think they see brighter in satan. Psalm 109:2. For the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful are opened against me: They have spoken against me with a lying tongue. 109;5. They have rewarded me evil for good and hatred for my love. 109:6. Set thou wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand. 109:7. When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his become sin. False preachers and congregations who enjoy traditions of men and false doctrine. Lying about God's Elect. I'm not judging anyone. During the millennium, some people will follow satan into lake of fire. They will reject Jesus as their King. We don't want REPROBATES in the eternity. We have clear picture on this.
 
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Carl Emerson

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ONLY once their blindness is removed... will they have their opportunity to either accept Jesus or reject Him. And that time for most of the Jews won't come until the 'fulness of the Gentiles' comes in according to Paul, which means the day of Christ's future return.

What is your take on the surge of messianic congregations in Israel ?
 
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Andrewn

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The hope of salvation after death seems to be a presupposition all over Romans 11. Here are a few examples, but it is best to read the whole chapter for context:

12 Now if their transgression leads to riches for the world, and their loss riches for the Gentiles, then how much more their fullness!

Some of the Jews alive in Paul's time were saved through his preaching (and the preaching of others), as we see in verses 5, 7, and 14. But how are all the Jews, alive in Paul's time, saved?

25 For I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, lest you be wise in your estimation, for a partial hardening has come upon Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

It is not only the fullness of the Jews but also the fullness of the Gentiles that will come in. But not all the Jews and Gentiles alive in Paul's time were saved. Does Paul imply there is hope for them after death?

26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion, and He will remove ungodliness from Jacob”;

After all the Gentiles are saved, all Jews alive in Paul's time will also be saved. Are they saved after death?

32 For God has condemned them so He might be merciful to all.

God will have mercy on all Jews and Gentiles. Were all people alive in Paul's time saved before or after death?
 
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Clare73

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The hope of salvation after death seems to be a presupposition all over Romans 11. Here are a few examples, but it is best to read the whole chapter for context:
12 Now if their transgression leads to riches for the world, and their loss riches for the Gentiles, then how much more their fullness!
Some of the Jews alive in Paul's time were saved through his preaching (and the preaching of others), as we see in verses 5, 7, and 14. But how are all the Jews, alive in Paul's time, saved?
25 For I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, lest you be wise in your estimation, for a partial hardening has come upon Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
It is not only the fullness of the Jews but also the fullness of the Gentiles that will come in. But not all the Jews and Gentiles alive in Paul's time were saved. Does Paul imply there is hope for them after death?
No, for "fullness" does not mean all people, it means all the elect.
26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion, and He will remove ungodliness from Jacob”;
All true Israel will be saved. Not all Israel (descendants of Abraham) is Israel, God distinguishes, as he did with Isaac and Ishmael, Jacob and Esau.
After all the Gentiles are saved, all Jews alive in Paul's time will also be saved. Are they saved after death?
That's all elect Gentiles.
32 For God has condemned them so He might be merciful to all.
He might does not mean he will.
God will have mercy on all Jews and Gentiles. Were all people alive in Paul's time saved before or after death?
God will have mercy on all elect Jews and Gentiles.
Not all the people in Paul's time were saved, ever.
 
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Davy

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What is your take on the surge of messianic congregations in Israel ?
I do not know any. I'm not Jewish.

For the events at the end of this world which Lord Jesus foretold, like in Matthew 24 and Mark 13, He told them to flee Jerusalem when they see the "abomination of desolation" setup. That was not an event back in history, it is for the coming "great tribulation" time at the end.

Jesus also told 'us' who are in the countries at that future time, to not enter into Jerusalem when the armies surround it (Luke 21:21).
 
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Carl Emerson

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I do not know any. I'm not Jewish.

For the events at the end of this world which Lord Jesus foretold, like in Matthew 24 and Mark 13, He told them to flee Jerusalem when they see the "abomination of desolation" setup. That was not an event back in history, it is for the coming "great tribulation" time at the end.

Jesus also told 'us' who are in the countries at that future time, to not enter into Jerusalem when the armies surround it (Luke 21:21).

Davy - my thing is not end times but being over there made me wonder...

Moshe Dyan allowed Islam to have jurisdiction over the temple mount.

In the six day war there were enemy all around.

Jerusalem is not the place to be unless you are there in safety under God's bidding.

Sure there is no sign of an antichrist figure yet but the developing circumstances are there.
 
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Davy

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Davy - my thing is not end times but being over there made me wonder...

Moshe Dyan allowed Islam to have jurisdiction over the temple mount.

In the six day war there were enemy all around.

Jerusalem is not the place to be unless you are there in safety under God's bidding.

Sure there is no sign of an antichrist figure yet but the developing circumstances are there.
I can guarantee that if one sticks with God's Word (speaking of end time prophecy in it), one can, and will know the events of the end as they play out, especially in Jerusalem, because that is where Lord Jesus showed the most important end time events will culminate just prior to His future coming. So we should watch Jerusalem closely.

There was a lot of behind-the-scenes play with the end of the 6 day war and what Dyan did. The United Nations was involved, as it was actually the U.N. that set Israel's borders and jurisdiction. Dyan was simply the pawn of sacrifice in the media image, with the real powers being those behind the goal for a "one world government", a world body that's hidden even deeper than the creators of the U.N.

It's almost like even they (world controllers), are waiting on the pseudo-Christ to arrive. Then we may expect a go ahead with the location and building of the future 3rd Jewish temple, and restart of old covenant worship again by the orthodox Jews there. That must happen per Lord Jesus' prophecy about the end, that new temple with old covenant worship started again by the Jews.
 
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ralliann

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Could you expand on this if possible so I can understand how you interpret the verse please.
There was remnant at that time. But you said as though it was future is all.
I think it speaks to the wrath that was coming which John spoke. Which came in 70 ad
 
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ralliann

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Yes - my hunch is both then and in the future...

However in the future my guess is there will be a mighty revival among Jewish people.
I do not know about how things are future. I do believe this....The covenant of circumcision is kept by them. Which is not of Moses but the fathers.

Joh 7:22 Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers;) and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.

They are elect, beloved for their sakes, enemies for our sakes.
Ro 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sakes.

Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

The times of the nations reminds me of the 2 1/2 tribes who were given land on the other side of the Jordon. But could not rest until they went over the Jordon and fought with their brethren to rest in theirs.
Jos 1:2 And to the Reubenites, and to the Gadites, and to half the tribe of Manasseh, spake Joshua, saying,
13 Remember the word which Moses the servant of the LORD commanded you, saying, The LORD your God hath given you rest, and hath given you this land.
14 Your wives, your little ones, and your cattle, shall remain in the land which Moses gave you on this side Jordan; but ye shall pass before your brethren armed, all the mighty men of valour, and help them;
15 Until the LORD have given your brethren rest, as he hath given you, and they also have possessed the land which the LORD your God giveth them
: then ye shall return unto the land of your possession, and enjoy it, which Moses the LORD’S servant gave you on this side Jordan toward the sunrising.
 
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