All Israel Will Be Saved ?

[Carl Emerson]

Joel Richardson has stated a multitude of modern Jews will be saved at Christ's Second Coming, based on Zechariah 12:10.
He is ignoring the fulfillment of that verse in John 19:37 at Calvary, and in Acts chapter 2 on the Day of Pentecost.

Based on Paul's words in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, Christ returns "in flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not know God.

Richardson and the Apostle Paul are not saying the same thing.

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Hey - I am not called to teach end times and will not contribute to the confusion.

I am not defending anything, just making personal comment.

 

[Hawkins]

I believe this ties to how "Jews" are defined in terms of a covenant.

1) Jews are those with a bloodline from the patriarchs
2) with male Jews circumcised on the eighth day after birth. The significance of this is that it signifies a switch from a gentile covenant to a Jewish covenant such that it looks as if the Jewish covenant is a born-with covenant. All gentiles, on the other hand, are born with a covenant tracing back from Noah. Every single human will thus be judged by a covenant instead of the absolute Law (which applies to the angels.
To put it another way, gentiles are all born with a covenant (Noah's covenant), Jews are born with another covenant (i.e., Mosaic covenant for today's Jews). This covenant (i.e., Mosaic covenant) is treated as if it's born with under the requirement that Jews switch from Noah's covenant to Mosaic covenant by the practice of circumcision on the eighth day (though today's practice lasts several months after birth)
3) Jews need to observe the Mosaic covenant the best they can and thus remain loyal to God
4) They don't stand in the way of Christianity

Only when the above 4 points are fulfilled, a Jew is considered a child of Abraham from a covenantal perspective. Bloodline alone won't decide if one is a Jew.

That said. The Jews are a chosen people called to be a witness of God. It is thus possible that in terms of Law and covenant a witness can be saved besides what a covenant applies to general humans. An example is David, he's a murderer and an adulterer in terms of the Mosaic Covenant. However, God saved him by setting him aside as a witness (i.e., a prophet). Paul (when he's Saul) stands in the way of Christianity (though he fulfilled the first 3 points well). God, on the other hand, has chosen him to be a witness for him to be saved. If he's not chosen, he's just another Pharisee choosing to be a stumbling block to the spreading of the Gospel.

Something impossible to us, God can make it possible.

 

[BABerean2]

3) Jews need to observe the Mosaic covenant the best they can and thus remain loyal to God

There is no Plan B of salvation based on race found in the New Testament.

There is now only one path to salvation for all races of people on this planet, and that is through faith in the work of God's Son at Calvary.

See Paul's warning in Galatians 1:6-9.

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[Hammster]

I believe this ties to how "Jews" are defined in terms of a covenant.

1) Jews are those with a bloodline from the patriarchs
2) with male Jews circumcised on the eighth day after birth. The significance of this is that it signifies a switch from a gentile covenant to a Jewish covenant such that it looks as if the Jewish covenant is a born-with covenant. All gentiles, on the other hand, are born with a covenant tracing back from Noah. Every single human will thus be judged by a covenant instead of the absolute Law (which applies to the angels.
To put it another way, gentiles are all born with a covenant (Noah's covenant), Jews are born with another covenant (i.e., Mosaic covenant for today's Jews). This covenant (i.e., Mosaic covenant) is treated as if it's born with under the requirement that Jews switch from Noah's covenant to Mosaic covenant by the practice of circumcision on the eighth day (though today's practice lasts several months after birth)
3) Jews need to observe the Mosaic covenant the best they can and thus remain loyal to God
4) They don't stand in the way of Christianity

Only when the above 4 points are fulfilled, a Jew is considered a child of Abraham from a covenantal perspective. Bloodline alone won't decide if one is a Jew.

That said. The Jews are a chosen people called to be a witness of God. It is thus possible that in terms of Law and covenant a witness can be saved besides what a covenant applies to general humans. An example is David, he's a murderer and an adulterer in terms of the Mosaic Covenant. However, God saved him by setting him aside as a witness (i.e., a prophet). Paul (when he's Saul) stands in the way of Christianity (though he fulfilled the first 3 points well). God, on the other hand, has chosen him to be a witness for him to be saved. If he's not chosen, he's just another Pharisee choosing to be a stumbling block to the spreading of the Gospel.

Something impossible to us, God can make it possible.

Hebrews is opposed to this whole post.

 

[klutedavid]

I believe this ties to how "Jews" are defined in terms of a covenant.

1) Jews are those with a bloodline from the patriarchs
2) with male Jews circumcised on the eighth day after birth. The significance of this is that it signifies a switch from a gentile covenant to a Jewish covenant such that it looks as if the Jewish covenant is a born-with covenant. All gentiles, on the other hand, are born with a covenant tracing back from Noah. Every single human will thus be judged by a covenant instead of the absolute Law (which applies to the angels.
To put it another way, gentiles are all born with a covenant (Noah's covenant), Jews are born with another covenant (i.e., Mosaic covenant for today's Jews). This covenant (i.e., Mosaic covenant) is treated as if it's born with under the requirement that Jews switch from Noah's covenant to Mosaic covenant by the practice of circumcision on the eighth day (though today's practice lasts several months after birth)
3) Jews need to observe the Mosaic covenant the best they can and thus remain loyal to God
4) They don't stand in the way of Christianity

Only when the above 4 points are fulfilled, a Jew is considered a child of Abraham from a covenantal perspective. Bloodline alone won't decide if one is a Jew.

That said. The Jews are a chosen people called to be a witness of God. It is thus possible that in terms of Law and covenant a witness can be saved besides what a covenant applies to general humans. An example is David, he's a murderer and an adulterer in terms of the Mosaic Covenant. However, God saved him by setting him aside as a witness (i.e., a prophet). Paul (when he's Saul) stands in the way of Christianity (though he fulfilled the first 3 points well). God, on the other hand, has chosen him to be a witness for him to be saved. If he's not chosen, he's just another Pharisee choosing to be a stumbling block to the spreading of the Gospel.

Something impossible to us, God can make it possible.

I don't think the nation of Israel is under the law of Moses. Modern Israel is a secular nation with elections. The nation of Israel has a modern legal system.

The nation of Israel under the law of Moses vanished two thousand years ago. The old covenant, the agreement between God and Israel, was abolished two thousand years ago.

 

[BABerean2]

I don't think the nation of Israel is under the law of Moses. Modern Israel is a secular nation with elections. The nation of Israel has a modern legal system.

The nation of Israel under the law of Moses vanished two thousand years ago. The old covenant, the agreement between God and Israel, was abolished two thousand years ago.

The following message by Pastor Chuck Baldwin proves you are correct.

Counterfeit Israel:

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[Hawkins]

There is no Plan B of salvation based on race found in the New Testament.

There is now only one path to salvation for all races of people on this planet, and that is through faith in the work of God's Son at Calvary.

See Paul's warning in Galatians 1:6-9.

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Sorry, that's not plan B. That's something always tied to a covenant. That's how David was saved. Plan B is your wording. The Bible didn't emphasize it simply because it is for God's witnesses while providing salvation to all mankind is the main theme.

 

[Hawkins]

I don't think the nation of Israel is under the law of Moses. Modern Israel is a secular nation with elections. The nation of Israel has a modern legal system.

The nation of Israel under the law of Moses vanished two thousand years ago. The old covenant, the agreement between God and Israel, was abolished two thousand years ago.

That's how Paul urged Timothy to circumcise. Covenants all have the effect of overlapping. That's why you need to observe Mosaic Law if you are a Jew. Under the Law is regarding to how a judgment is proceeded, not what you should do as required by the covenants. That's why even gentiles need to follow their own conscience to act. Conscience is tied to the Law put to your heart by God, a requirement possibly back to the Rainbow Covenant.

 

[Hawkins]

Hebrews is opposed to this whole post.

What a bold assertion. Perhaps that's why their temple was destroyed in AD 70, simply because they are away from God.

 

[Hammster]

What a bold assertion. Perhaps that's why their temple was destroyed in AD 70, simply because they are away from God.

It was destroyed because they rejected the Messiah.

 

[BABerean2]

Sorry, that's not plan B. That's something always tied to a covenant. That's how David was saved. Plan B is your wording. The Bible didn't emphasize it simply because it is for God's witnesses while providing salvation to all mankind is the main theme.

Paul said God preached the Gospel to Abraham.
Do you think David was saved in a different way?

Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

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[Hawkins]

Paul said God preached the Gospel to Abraham.
Do you think David was saved in a different way?

Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

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It is because the Jews are still God's people, and this is identified not only by bloodline but also by which covenant they choose to observe. That's why Paul urges Timothy to circumcise. Or otherwise, you don't and can't have an explanation.

 

[Hawkins]

It was destroyed because they rejected the Messiah.

They reject the Messiah because they failed to maintain a good relationship with God, especially the Pharisees as the enforcer of Judaism.

 

[Hammster]

It is because the Jews are still God's people, and this is identified not only by bloodline but also by which covenant they choose to observe. That's why Paul urges Timothy to circumcise. Or otherwise, you don't and can't have an explanation.

The saved Jews are God’s people.

 

[Hawkins]

The saved Jews are God’s people.

No, in terms of what God's witnesses are.

 

[Hammster]

No, in terms of what God's witnesses are.

But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “through Isaac your descendants will be named.”
— Romans 9:6-7

 

[trophy33]

All Israel Will Be Saved
Romans 11
25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.
26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:“The Deliverer will come from Zion;He will remove godlessness from Jacob.

I have always struggled in understanding what is being said here, would love to get the thoughts . In Romans 11 verse 26 it clearly says all of Israel will be saved. yet earlier in that same chapter is clearly shows Paul to be suggesting only some of them will we saved.

The word "so" in the verse 26 means "in this way" (as for example the NIV correctly renders). Its so in Greek.

Therefore, Paul is saying: "remnant of Israel + full number of Gentiles = all Israel will be saved".

καὶ οὕτως πᾶς Ἰσραὴλ σωθήσεται
"and in this way all Israel will be saved." NIV

3779 hoútō (an adverb, derived from the demonstrative pronoun, 3778 /hoútos, "this") – like this . . .; in this manner, in this way (fashion), in accordance with this description (i.e. corresponding to what follows); in keeping with; along this line, in the manner spoken.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

It is because the Jews are still God's people, and this is identified not only by bloodline but also by which covenant they choose to observe. That's why Paul urges Timothy to circumcise. Or otherwise, you don't and can't have an explanation.

Being a child of God has nothing to do with one's ethnicity or nationality. It has everything to do with having a personal relationship with Christ by trusting in Him for salvation.

Galatians 3:26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Only Jews who have faith in Christ are God's people along with Gentiles who have faith in Christ. Once someone is in Christ then, as Paul said, "there is neither Jew nor Gentile".

 

[1watchman]

I think it may have already been pointed out herein that 'all Israel saved', speaks of acceptance of Israel in a 'day to come' when God's earthly people forever ---as such as Rev. 7:4 indicates, will be His NEW people. Today ALL Israelites MUST come to their "Messiah" (which their forefathers had Romans to kill), or they will perish as all sinners who reject the Lord Jesus.
The present attempt by Israelites to maintain the OT religion of their ancestors is no longer valid. A full study of our Bible will show all this difference and need of Jesus Christ for ALL mankind for eternal blessings.
I can't to into the full picture here, but will be pleased to chat with anyone interested in the fuller picture at Conversation Page on Christian Forums here. -1watchman

 

[BABerean2]

I think it may have already been pointed out herein that 'all Israel saved', speaks of acceptance of Israel in a 'day to come' when God's earthly people forever ---as such as Rev. 7:4 indicates, will be His NEW people.

Is Romans 11:26 about the "manner" of how all of the remnant of Israel (Romans 9:27) will be saved, or is it about the timing of when they will be saved?

The manner of salvation is found in the same passage.

Rom 11:23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
Rom 11:25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "THE DELIVERER WILL COME OUT OF ZION, AND HE WILL TURN AWAY UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB;
Rom 11:27 FOR THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM, WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS."

The Uppercase text in the last two verses is a direct quote from the Old Testament.
When did the "deliverer" take away sin? Was it at Calvary, or will Jesus have to die again?

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