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All Israel is saved

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by claninja, Jan 15, 2018.

  1. Soar Like and Eagle

    Soar Like and Eagle Well-Known Member

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    Sin was a part of it but it was the death realm God planned. It all has to do with God developing overcoming sons from innocent naive sons who can be deceived. We are all effected by Adam's sin and the death realm for we were all created in God's image and likeness.

    1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

    Psalm. 90:1-3. "Lord, You have been our dwelling place in all generations. Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever You have formed the earth or the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God. You turn man to destruction; and say return you children of men.
     
  2. Soar Like and Eagle

    Soar Like and Eagle Well-Known Member

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    You sure understand what it means to be a goat believer.
     
  3. Soar Like and Eagle

    Soar Like and Eagle Well-Known Member

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    I believe in what scripture declares especially when it comes to the hidden mysteries for that is where God's Spirit reveals his deepness. I do not believe in the traditions of the religious systems when it cannot be backed up with scripture. God created all things He is a creator. Where do you believe evil comes from?
     
  4. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If you review my post, my position for universalism is based on verse 19, not verse 18.
     
  5. Buzz_B

    Buzz_B Well-Known Member

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    Nice try but it makes no difference. What I said still trumps your wrong perception.

    Hey, but you have others who love to bask in ignorance and evasion with you so you have your support, just not God.
     
  6. Buzz_B

    Buzz_B Well-Known Member

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    You only believe what your own mind declares. You do not fool anyone.
     
  7. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So no response to the Greek word meaning referred to in my post? Didn't you claim to be a translator?
     
  8. Soar Like and Eagle

    Soar Like and Eagle Well-Known Member

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    Nice opinion. No I use scripture which you avoid responding to. You are debating two us and there are plenty more.
     
  9. Soar Like and Eagle

    Soar Like and Eagle Well-Known Member

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    Only when it fits his bias pretty much the case with religious people
     
  10. Buzz_B

    Buzz_B Well-Known Member

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    Ha Ha. You still lost.
     
  11. Buzz_B

    Buzz_B Well-Known Member

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    Man made in God's image is a pro-creator.

    That is all you gave that is answerable to in your post 123 when you said, quote, "I do not believe in the traditions of the religious systems when it cannot be backed up with scripture. God created all things He is a creator. Where do you believe evil comes from?"

    There is your answer. Man made in God's image is also able to create things.

    That was too simple for you to see, wasn't it. :) Do you have a dictionary? Look up the meaning of the word, "devise."

    Psalms 36:4 "He deviseth mischief upon his bed; he setteth himself in a way that is not good; he abhorreth not evil."

    Proverbs 6:14 "Frowardness is in his heart, he deviseth mischief continually; he soweth discord."

    Proverbs 24:8 "He that deviseth to do evil shall be called a mischievous person."

    Proverbs 14:12 "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death."
     
  12. Soar Like and Eagle

    Soar Like and Eagle Well-Known Member

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    Yes God created man in His image and likeness that was not pre-creation that was creation. On the seventh day God formed man from the dust of the earth and made him a living soul. formed/created

    So you are blaming the created and ignoring the creator as if God had no clue? Where is your answer on where does evil come from? Man was created by God and man fell into sin and death which God planned. Are you saying God did not know this would happen? God is omnipotent, omnipotent, omniscience, omniscient, omnipotence, omnipresent . You as a Greek scholar i am sure understands the meaning of the words? So Who controls evil? Little man? Satan and God is helpless to stop him?
     
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  13. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought

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    claninja,

    1. The tribulation is before the millennial kingdom which is the same as Jesus preached about
    Called the KoH Matthew 4:17 and the KoG Matthew 6:33; Luke 17:20-21.

    2. This Physical kingdom reign was rejected by the Jews in Jesus day but will be consummated after the Battle of Armageddon.
    The Jews covenant of the land and the kingdom reign on earth are eternal 2 Samuel 7:13-16, 1 Chronicles 28:1-8.
    Jerry Kelso
     
  14. RisenInJesus

    RisenInJesus Well-Known Member

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    For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

    “The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
    And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
    For this is My covenant with them,
    When I take away their sins.” Romans 11:25-27


    Paul is saying that when the fullness of the Gentiles has come in and after the tribulation when Christ returns to save Israel from destruction, the remnant that is left...all of them (all Israel) will see and realize Jesus is their Messiah and will be saved.

    "So how will “all Israel be saved”? The details of this deliverance are filled out in passages such as Zechariah 8—14 and Revelation 7—19, which speak of end-times Israel at Christ’s return. The key verse describing the coming to faith of the future remnant of Israel is Zechariah 12:10, “I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.” This occurs at the end of the tribulation prophesied in Daniel 9:24–27. The apostle John references this event in Revelation 1:7. The faithful remnant of Israel is epitomized in Revelation 7:1–8. These faithful ones the Lord will save and bring back to Jerusalem “in truth and righteousness” (Zechariah 8:7–8, NASB).

    After Israel is spiritually restored, Christ will establish His millennial kingdom on earth. Israel will be regathered from the ends of the earth (Isaiah 11:12; 62:10). The symbolic “dry bones” of Ezekiel’s vision will be brought together, covered with flesh, and miraculously resuscitated (Ezekiel 37:1–14). As God promised, the salvation of Israel will involve both a spiritual awakening and a geographical home: “I will put my Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land” (Ezekiel 37:14).

    In the Day of the Lord, God will “reclaim the surviving remnant of his people” (Isaiah 11:11). Jesus Christ will return and destroy the armies gathered against Him in rebellion (Revelation 19). Sinners will be judged, and the faithful remnant of Israel will be set apart forever as God’s holy people (Zechariah 13:8—14:21). Isaiah 12 is their song of deliverance; Zion will rule over all the nations under the banner of Messiah the King."
    Will all Israel be saved in the end times?

     
  15. Buzz_B

    Buzz_B Well-Known Member

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    Fase doctrine on top of false doctrine does not make for true doctrine.

    You are unworthy of even receiving my attention as you have absolutely no willingness in you to search a thing through. You are the one who harped about things not being in the Bible, like the word "omniscience." I agree with that basic premise but you turn to non-sense when you stop getting your way. And that is not my cup of tea.

    I do not like debate. I prefer reasoning together. But with you that is not possible. You are full up.

    Goodbye. Be content to believe whatever you wish to believe. :)
     
  16. Soar Like and Eagle

    Soar Like and Eagle Well-Known Member

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    You call it false doctrine because you cannot commit to what I am saying because there is a truth here. I would love to debate with you about but you cannot answer the simple valid questions of either of us. I have not even given my opinion and used scripture to get my way and you are running away from the debate before it begins claiming i not getting my way. How is there non-sense when I have not express anything using scripture? You are the one who cannot no willingness in you to search a thing through for who can there be a debate if you have no commit answer?
     
  17. Buzz_B

    Buzz_B Well-Known Member

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    Hissing are you? I really do not understand the point of what you are trying to say. It sounds like a mere spewing of gas to me. You will need to elaborate on what you mean if you expect an applicable answer from me.

    And please bear in mind that I am not here to speak of opinions. I am here to discuss Scripture. So speak of the Scriptures.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018
  18. Buzz_B

    Buzz_B Well-Known Member

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    Where do we find the symbolism in the ancient Hebrew which those who have fornicated with false religious pagan beliefs have perverted into a literal place of immortal souls?

    Where do we find the symbolism in the ancient Hebrew which those who have fornicated with false religious pagan beliefs have perverted into a literal place of ever-lasting literal torment?

    Until we learn what got perverted we have no clue that it needs to be revisited and set straight. And until we learn what got perverted we have no clue that we have committed spiritual fornication with the false religious pagan forms of unintelligent worship.

    In ancient Hebrew men are pictured as yet being formed in a womb after the fact of their literal physical formation in a literal natural birth mother's womb.

    Paul lets us see clues to this ancient Hebrew symbolism concerning the symbolic womb in more than a few places where he speaks.

    Galatians 4:19 “My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,”

    There Paul speaks to Galatians who have been led astray of Christ's teachings, showing that they have become like those yet in that symbolic womb wherein the spirit of God working through Paul travails to give birth to them once again “in” the plural 2nd person pronoun “you”, meaning that the congregation is that womb they are “in.”

    “Travail” - G5605 – “odino” - from 5604; to experience the pains of parturition (literally or figuratively): -- travail in (birth). - - G5604 – “odin” - akin to 3601; a pang or throe, especially of childbirth: KJV -- pain, sorrow, travail.

    Already by this point, even long before I have finished speaking, some who have cockatrices wrapped around their heart are beginning to devise in their hearts what missiles they may throw at this idea. These who have cockatrices wrapped around their hearts are trees of the knowledge of good and bad They cannot be trees of life to you per Proverbs 15:4 because they are not of those who listen to Proverbs 3:18 and have not paid attention only to God. But do not worry about me. For though they throw their missiles of half truths and perversions at what I say, they know that they cannot harm me. Their missiles are really meant to harm you, the listener, to cause you to join them in their gang spirit of violence and ridicule rather than listening,learning, and benefiting. They speak the desire of the cockatrice which wraps their heart and its desire is to wrap your heart, too. Some, if not many, of you will fall to their violence and fall prey to the wishes of the cockatrice. But not all. Somewhere out there, there are those who will resist the temptation to join them in their rebellious ridicule and continue onto listen, learn, and benefit. So I continue on for your sake that the tree of life may come to be in you. And you will see that I often will not answer the ridicule of of the unreasonable ones. I will not play into their attempts to divert, corrupt, and deceive. That then leaves them only two ways to try to stop you from hearing what I have learned from the tree of life, (1) by just clutter the message board up with tons of contrary talk, or, (2) by figuratively beheading me so as to silence me, by either expelling me from this site or by just pushing to have my posting privileges taken away. It is nothing new under the sun.

    Paul's use of this idea concerning the symbolic womb is seen in many things that he says. And as we discuss this I want you to be aware that here we find an idea which can be perverted and is perverted by some as a means of claiming that there was a life before we were literally born. Rather than understanding the Hebrew symbolism they have used a fusion of pagan ideas to hide it from you and to lead you completely astray, thus laying their groundwork for yet other deceptions, like immortality of the human soul and a literal place of torment in a literal Lake of Fire called by the pagan name, “hell.”

    As always I will pause to give you a chance to absorb what I have said thus far and be ready to continue on listening. But also to allow the cockatrices a chance to begin to hiss.

    When you are ready to listen to more of the Hebrew symbolism explained, just tell me to continue on. Else I will wait until my own chosen time to continue on. :)

    A good place to begin to get a sense of this symbolism is Hosea chapters 13 and 14 where God pleads with the 10 tribe-kingdom of Israel to repent that he may permit the unwise tribe of Ephraim to (as Hosea 13:13 says) "stay long in the place of the breaking forth of children." There we see that symbolic womb which is as kept by the belly of God's symbolic woman, Jerusalem of the flesh, whose job it was to "break forth" (as in bear in childbirth) children to God.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018
  19. Buzz_B

    Buzz_B Well-Known Member

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    ClementofA had siad: "If you review my post, my position for universalism is based on verse 19, not verse 18."

    If you think what I have already told you does not apply to verse 19 you are going to have to explain your basis for disagreeing with what I said about verse 18 showing us that "many" does not have to mean "all" nor does "many" verses "many" have to mean an equal number.

    Until you can do that you have said nothing new.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018
  20. Soar Like and Eagle

    Soar Like and Eagle Well-Known Member

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    Hissing? You are a goat believer. You cannot give anyone a straight answer if we ask you something outside of your religious understanding? I asked you who created evil and you quote some off the wall verses that mean nothing. Obviously you only can think within the limited scope your belief system has given you and there is no more for you to seek after. All you have is personal attacks. So who is responsible for evil? God or an evil force greater than God who God is helpless to control?
     
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