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All has to be fulfilled?

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by chunkofcoal, Sep 17, 2018.

  1. chunkofcoal

    chunkofcoal Messianic Christian

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    Do all prophecies have to be fulfilled?
    People talk a lot about end times and how this has to be fulfilled/take place, and that has to be fulfilled/take place before Yeshua returns - but is it true?
    Jonah didn't want to go to Nineveh and then when he did, and they repented, and
    Jon 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

    Jonah got mad and:
    Jon 4:2 And he prayed unto the LORD, and said, I pray thee, O LORD, was not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil.

    In that verse "And he prayed" is interesting. "And he prayed" is:
    pâlal
    paw-lal'
    A primitive root; to judge (officially or mentally); by extension to intercede, pray: - intreat, judge (-ment), (make) pray (-er, -ing), make supplication.


    Jonah "judged" that God is "a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil" while he was yet in his country.

    Did Nineveh understand those truths about God? Maybe not. Maybe that's why Jonah was mad - the people of Nineveh might've looked at him as a false prophet.
    But when it comes down to it, it's not about Jonah. It's about God:
    "a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil"

    So when people say this has to be fulfilled/take place and that has to be fulfilled/take place before Yeshua returns, is it true?
    Do all prophecies have to be fulfilled?

    But ...Yeshua did say:
    Mat 5:17-18 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

    But it is written:

    Jer 18:7-10 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it; (8) If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them. (9) And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it; (10) If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.

    Any thoughts? Insights? Rebuttals? :)






     
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  2. WESTOZZIE

    WESTOZZIE Active Member Supporter

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    You answered your own question with Jesus word on it....For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
    But are you aware that not all Christians are Futurists? Many call themselves Preterists and believe that many prophetic events have already happened.
    As for me...I like to keep in mind that God is Good....God is love....God is Sovereign...and above all merciful. Dont be afraid....all will work out well for everyone in the end.
     
  3. Heber Book List

    Heber Book List Theologian [Applied Theology]

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    By definition, every prophecy given us by G_d, directly or indirectly, must be fulfilled, for his word does not return to him unless it achieved what he wanted it to.

    The only timetable is G_d's timetable, and he has a wider span that we do - past, present and future.
     
  4. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    It is true that people talk a lot "about end times and ... ... ... "....

    It may not be true that they know what they are talking about.

    Does that help any ?

    Are you trusting Jesus will return as He said He would ? (He will, exactly and at the precise moment Yahweh set)
     
  5. Greg J.

    Greg J. Well-Known Member Supporter

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    But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?” At that time Jesus said to the crowd, “Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come out with swords and clubs to capture me? Every day I sat in the temple courts teaching, and you did not arrest me. But this has all taken place that the writings of the prophets might be fulfilled.” Then all the disciples deserted him and fled. (Matthew 26:54-56, 1984 NIV)
     
  6. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    I would agree except to say that the return of Christ is the final fulfillment of prophecy.
     
  7. Heber Book List

    Heber Book List Theologian [Applied Theology]

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    I did not go that far because a large number of people will disagree. Yeshua's return will mark the start of the end time prophecies, whichever millennial view you hold.
     
  8. AbbaLove

    AbbaLove Circumcision of the Heart is Messianic

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    We hold to the Word of the LORD.

    Revelation 20:6-8
    6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
    7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
    8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.​
     
  9. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    If you take a serious look at the writings of the eighth century prophets, Isaiah, Micah, Amos and Hosea, at the end of their writings they describe at length the coming kingdom. Based on that, if nothing else, I'm convinced the coming of the Messiah is the key to understanding predictive prophecy in the Old Testament.
     
  10. JohnC2

    JohnC2 Active Member

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    Why was Jonah so angry - because Nineveh repented so that Assyria could then fulfill the prophecies that they would destroy and take the entire Northern Kingdom into captivity.

    If they didn’t repent - God would destroy them as he had said and they would not destroy the Northern Kingdom....

    But that was not what God wanted.... And God used the object lesson of the Castor bean plant and the worm to explain how Assyria (and in fact every subsequent giant military empire which conquered them) would provide covering and protection for God’s people within the captivity...

    As for us and the end time prophecies.... It’s coming. As we learn from the object lessons in Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel - God may push the time table out in response to our turning from our evil ways.... But it’s still coming.

    And as God testifies in Ezekiel 14:22-23 - when he judges and destroys a place, it is warranted.... we will meet people who came through it and observe their ways - we will know God was right to do what he did.

     
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  11. chunkofcoal

    chunkofcoal Messianic Christian

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    I agree it all works out in the end.

    Regarding what Jesus said, -in the quote in my post, God said: If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.

    Doesn't that mean things can change if the people repent?
     
  12. Heber Book List

    Heber Book List Theologian [Applied Theology]

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    Yes :)
     
  13. Heber Book List

    Heber Book List Theologian [Applied Theology]

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    I agree. But some prophecies will happen after he has returned, your post implied he was the last prophecy :)
     
  14. chunkofcoal

    chunkofcoal Messianic Christian

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    True.
    But, people bring up the scripture about how God's word doesn't return to Him void, but that whole passage of scripture is about repenting:
    Isa 55:6-13 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: (7) Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. (8) For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. (9) For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. (10) For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: (11) So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. (12) For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands. (13) Instead of the thorn shall come up the fir tree, and instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle tree: and it shall be to the LORD for a name, for an everlasting sign that shall not be cut off.
     
  15. chunkofcoal

    chunkofcoal Messianic Christian

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    Does that help any? Well....

    And yes, I believe Yeshua will return as He said He would.
     
  16. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Good.
    All the Apostles and disciples also believed He would return as He Says, and they eagerly watched for Him.
    So also should we all (Ekklesia: called and set apart by Him for Himself).
     
  17. chunkofcoal

    chunkofcoal Messianic Christian

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    He knew the scriptures, knew what was coming, but He still went out and prayed about it -
    Mat 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
     
  18. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    Some people re-write the prophecies to mean the Church instead of physical Israel. And they take this verse:

    2 Corinthians 1:20 KJV
    For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.​

    to mean that everything has ALREADY been fulfilled in His death and resurrection.
     
  19. Heber Book List

    Heber Book List Theologian [Applied Theology]

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    Because he was being tempted by his humanity, to not go through with it. He overcame. as we must, to do the Father's will.
     
  20. Heber Book List

    Heber Book List Theologian [Applied Theology]

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    Yes, that's why I responded to it. :)
     
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