All Denominations are Heresy

What does heresy mean?

  • Doctrinal error

    Votes: 16 72.7%
  • Schism or division in the body

    Votes: 6 27.3%

  • Total voters
    22

AlexDTX

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I have been called a heretic (by Catholics twice) with the implication that I have spoken in error. That is the generally accepted meaning of the term, but it is not the etymological meaning.

The Greek word translated as heresy in the New Testament is, hairesis, meaning “a choice” as in a group, thus implying “disunion”. It is derived from aihreomai which means "to take for one's self". It is also translated as “sect”. It does not mean error or being wrong.

Heresy began in the first century and we read Paul's rebuke to the Corinthians:

1Co 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.​

What then was the “same mind” and “same judgment” that Paul referred to? He tells us in the next chapter:

1Co 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.​

Yet as we continue reading his rebuke to the Corinthians he says:

1Co 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?​

You can see people are already dividing into camps, (denominations) as they focus on the teaching, preaching and baptizing of the various servants of God.

So many people get on their high horse as the champion their pet doctrines which Paul calls in Romans “doubtful disputations” (Rom. 14:1). Apart from the deity of Christ and our need for salvation by his death and resurrection, everything else is doubtful disputations, or doctrines of men (Col. 2:22) or, worse, doctrines of demons (1 Tim. 4:1). Regarding doctrines of demons we should contend for the faith (Jude 1:3) but regarding the doctrines of men and doubtful disputations we should not be carried about by varied and strange doctrines (Heb. 13:9).

So this is why I say all denominations are heresy, including Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Coptic and the hundreds of Protestant and Independent organizations. Every denomination is a business franchise requiring adherence to their opinion of doctrines and worship. Christ is not divided. All believers who have the new birth through faith in the deity of Christ and his death and resurrection are brothers and sisters and members of his body and bride. What say ye?
 

JESUS=G.O.A.T

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I have been called a heretic (by Catholics twice) with the implication that I have spoken in error. That is the generally accepted meaning of the term, but it is not the etymological meaning.

The Greek word translated as heresy in the New Testament is, hairesis, meaning “a choice” as in a group, thus implying “disunion”. It is derived from aihreomai which means "to take for one's self". It is also translated as “sect”. It does not mean error or being wrong.

Heresy began in the first century and we read Paul's rebuke to the Corinthians:

1Co 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.​

What then was the “same mind” and “same judgment” that Paul referred to? He tells us in the next chapter:

1Co 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.​

Yet as we continue reading his rebuke to the Corinthians he says:

1Co 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?​

You can see people are already dividing into camps, (denominations) as they focus on the teaching, preaching and baptizing of the various servants of God.

So many people get on their high horse as the champion their pet doctrines which Paul calls in Romans “doubtful disputations” (Rom. 14:1). Apart from the deity of Christ and our need for salvation by his death and resurrection, everything else is doubtful disputations, or doctrines of men (Col. 2:22) or, worse, doctrines of demons (1 Tim. 4:1). Regarding doctrines of demons we should contend for the faith (Jude 1:3) but regarding the doctrines of men and doubtful disputations we should not be carried about by varied and strange doctrines (Heb. 13:9).

So this is why I say all denominations are heresy, including Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Coptic and the hundreds of Protestant and Independent organizations. Every denomination is a business franchise requiring adherence to their opinion of doctrines and worship. Christ is not divided. All believers who have the new birth through faith in the deity of Christ and his death and resurrection are brothers and sisters and members of his body and bride. What say ye?


I see where you're coming from... but I feel since we inevitably live in a world where more so then in the past there is so much division and denominations it's best to just learn the bible and choose the one that lines best with the word of God. I mean we can't hear without a preacher, you have to find somewhere.

I do agree though there shouldn't be so much divisions and disagreements over the apostle's doctrine, it's very clear tbh but it is what it is.
 
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Root of Jesse

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Yes, you do have a point. Jesus prayed that His Church would be one, John 17. So denominations are not what Jesus wanted, therefore, they are anti-The Church Christ Founded. There was only one Church that the Apostles spread throughout the Mediterranean. That Church was in existence when He died, and when He rose and when He ascended into heaven. The Church He spoke of in Matthew 16:18-20.
I contend that there is still only one Church. Jesus didn't state things that weren't true. So there is still only one Body of Christ, His Church. We human beings are the ones divided. The catholic church is universal, the catholic church is Christ's call to humanity. The Catholic Church is our response to that call, as is the Methodist, Baptist and all the other 36000 denominations, including the EO, OO, etc. and the Non-denominationals.
 
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Ken Rank

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I have been called a heretic (by Catholics twice) with the implication that I have spoken in error. That is the generally accepted meaning of the term, but it is not the etymological meaning.

The Greek word translated as heresy in the New Testament is, hairesis, meaning “a choice” as in a group, thus implying “disunion”. It is derived from aihreomai which means "to take for one's self". It is also translated as “sect”. It does not mean error or being wrong.

Heresy began in the first century and we read Paul's rebuke to the Corinthians:

1Co 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.​

What then was the “same mind” and “same judgment” that Paul referred to? He tells us in the next chapter:

1Co 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.​

Yet as we continue reading his rebuke to the Corinthians he says:

1Co 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?​

You can see people are already dividing into camps, (denominations) as they focus on the teaching, preaching and baptizing of the various servants of God.

So many people get on their high horse as the champion their pet doctrines which Paul calls in Romans “doubtful disputations” (Rom. 14:1). Apart from the deity of Christ and our need for salvation by his death and resurrection, everything else is doubtful disputations, or doctrines of men (Col. 2:22) or, worse, doctrines of demons (1 Tim. 4:1). Regarding doctrines of demons we should contend for the faith (Jude 1:3) but regarding the doctrines of men and doubtful disputations we should not be carried about by varied and strange doctrines (Heb. 13:9).

So this is why I say all denominations are heresy, including Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Coptic and the hundreds of Protestant and Independent organizations. Every denomination is a business franchise requiring adherence to their opinion of doctrines and worship. Christ is not divided. All believers who have the new birth through faith in the deity of Christ and his death and resurrection are brothers and sisters and members of his body and bride. What say ye?
Great point and I agree wholeheartedly that this word is not understood today. There are reasons why....

1. We are imposing the modern meaning of the word on the text. The problem is that heresy, like the word "gentile," was used 500 years ago our early English bibles and had one meaning... and then over time those same words continued to be used in our bibles but the meanings have changed. A gentile for example, is "a pagan, a heathen, anyone who is not a Jew or Christian." At least, that is how the word was defined when the KJV was translated. But NOW... it means, "any believer in Christ who isn't Jewish." The idea of a "gentile Christian" was once an oxymoron, but NOW it is embraced as what we are??? We have this same issue with heresy... we are defining the word based on how it is used in our culture TODAY rather than how it was understood when it first was translated into our bibles.

2. We tend to suffer from NDD.... which stands for Narrow Definition Disorder. :) We constantly almost force words to have one meaning rather than accept they can have many meanings and context drives the definition.

So, what is heresy? You shared one definition... here is the entry from another lexicon:

G139
αἵρεσις
hairesis
Thayer Definition:
1) act of taking, capture: e.g. storming a city
2) choosing, choice
3) that which is chosen
4) a body of men following their own tenets (sect or party)
4a) of the Sadducees
4b) of the Pharisees
4c) of the Christians
5) dissensions arising from diversity of opinions and aims

Look at the first definition... act of TAKING? Capture? Storming a city? The idea here is "force." When we try to force or manipulate others with our doctrine, EVEN IF it is true... we are heretics because we are forcing. We then see in the second and third definition that choosing is part of the concept but when we get to the fourth definition we see how choice develops into division... sects... So let's look at a couple of verses...

2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.

Notice how these false teachers and prophets SECRETLY "bring in" destructive heresies. This is the idea of force and manipulation through stealth. And these destructive heresies bring about division. Here is another...

Genesis 49:5 "Simeon and Levi are brothers; Instruments of cruelty are in their dwelling place.

In the LXX the word for cruelty is hairesis... the underlying Hebrew word is chamas (violence, damage, false, cruelty) and so take that concept into consideration when reading the 2 Peter verse above... the context is entirely different than what we were raised to expect. One more...

Acts 5:17 Then the high priest rose up, and all those who were with him (which is the sect of the Sadducees), and they were filled with indignation

Here the word "sect" is hairesis, a division within the body.

So we have many meanings and again, context drives the definition. The irony here, is that the person who called you a heretic is actually being the heretic because they have allowed the differences in your choices to divide you. They name called, therefore, they are the ones causing division and creating strife which can do nothing but add a sect... it certainly isn't going to bring us together as one.
 
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DrBubbaLove

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I have been called a heretic (by Catholics twice) with the implication that I have spoken in error. That is the generally accepted meaning of the term, but it is not the etymological meaning.

The Greek word translated as heresy in the New Testament is, hairesis, meaning “a choice” as in a group, thus implying “disunion”. It is derived from aihreomai which means "to take for one's self". It is also translated as “sect”. It does not mean error or being wrong.

Heresy began in the first century and we read Paul's rebuke to the Corinthians:

1Co 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.​

What then was the “same mind” and “same judgment” that Paul referred to? He tells us in the next chapter:

1Co 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.​

Yet as we continue reading his rebuke to the Corinthians he says:

1Co 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?​

You can see people are already dividing into camps, (denominations) as they focus on the teaching, preaching and baptizing of the various servants of God.

So many people get on their high horse as the champion their pet doctrines which Paul calls in Romans “doubtful disputations” (Rom. 14:1). Apart from the deity of Christ and our need for salvation by his death and resurrection, everything else is doubtful disputations, or doctrines of men (Col. 2:22) or, worse, doctrines of demons (1 Tim. 4:1). Regarding doctrines of demons we should contend for the faith (Jude 1:3) but regarding the doctrines of men and doubtful disputations we should not be carried about by varied and strange doctrines (Heb. 13:9).

So this is why I say all denominations are heresy, including Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Coptic and the hundreds of Protestant and Independent organizations. Every denomination is a business franchise requiring adherence to their opinion of doctrines and worship. Christ is not divided. All believers who have the new birth through faith in the deity of Christ and his death and resurrection are brothers and sisters and members of his body and bride. What say ye?
Paul was refuting errors [among] groups of people within the Body of Christ were making. I see no need to look at heresy as if it validates having different opinions on something AFTER the truth of it has been revealed. As Apostle Saint Paul had that inherent right to correct error where ever he saw it.

Having different opinions need [NOT] always be something we divide ourselves over or necessarily as an error on the level of a heresy - which [an actual heresy] would be an error that is thought detrimental or even destructive to Christian faith - something like doubting Jesus is God or that He is human. Detrimental does not mean holding to such a [heretical] belief makes one automatically not Christian.
 
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AlexDTX

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I see where you're coming from... but I feel since we inevitably live in a world where more so then in the past there is so much division and denominations it's best to just learn the bible and choose the one that lines best with the word of God. I mean we can't hear without a preacher, you have to find somewhere.

I do agree though there shouldn't be so much divisions and disagreements over the apostle's doctrine, it's very clear tbh but it is what it is.
My main concern is that we recognize those who know Jesus and those who by the words show they don't.
 
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AlexDTX

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So, what is heresy? You shared one definition... here is the entry from another lexicon:
I also looked at Thayers but did not include it because my point was division. But I agree that those who try to force their opinions on others is a more appropriate use of the word heretic. Thanks for your feedback. Very good.
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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I have been called a heretic (by Catholics twice) with the implication that I have spoken in error. That is the generally accepted meaning of the term, but it is not the etymological meaning.

The Greek word translated as heresy in the New Testament is, hairesis, meaning “a choice” as in a group, thus implying “disunion”. It is derived from aihreomai which means "to take for one's self". It is also translated as “sect”. It does not mean error or being wrong.

Heresy began in the first century and we read Paul's rebuke to the Corinthians:

1Co 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.​

What then was the “same mind” and “same judgment” that Paul referred to? He tells us in the next chapter:

1Co 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.​

Yet as we continue reading his rebuke to the Corinthians he says:

1Co 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?​

You can see people are already dividing into camps, (denominations) as they focus on the teaching, preaching and baptizing of the various servants of God.

So many people get on their high horse as the champion their pet doctrines which Paul calls in Romans “doubtful disputations” (Rom. 14:1). Apart from the deity of Christ and our need for salvation by his death and resurrection, everything else is doubtful disputations, or doctrines of men (Col. 2:22) or, worse, doctrines of demons (1 Tim. 4:1). Regarding doctrines of demons we should contend for the faith (Jude 1:3) but regarding the doctrines of men and doubtful disputations we should not be carried about by varied and strange doctrines (Heb. 13:9).

So this is why I say all denominations are heresy, including Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Coptic and the hundreds of Protestant and Independent organizations. Every denomination is a business franchise requiring adherence to their opinion of doctrines and worship. Christ is not divided. All believers who have the new birth through faith in the deity of Christ and his death and resurrection are brothers and sisters and members of his body and bride. What say ye?

Oh this is so true, and yet there are people out there who disagree with some of my insights (sigh)
 
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AlexDTX

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Paul was refuted errors groups of people within the Body of Christ were making. I see no need to look at heresy as if it validates having different opinions on something AFTER the truth of it has been revealed. As Apostle Saint Paul had that inherent right to correct error where ever he saw it. Having different opinions need always be something we divide ourselves over or necessarily as an error on the level of a heresy - which would be an error that is thought detrimental or even destructive to Christian faith - something like doubting Jesus is God or that He is human. Detrimental does not mean holding to such a belief makes one automatically not Christian.
Your response is a little convoluted but I think I understand what you are saying. Paul confronted Peter for his duplicity when he ate whatever the Greek Christians ate then pretended to only eat kosher when the Messianics arrived. Although Peter was not in error, but he contributed to the schism between Greek and Jewish Christians by his behavior. Paul was also hard hitting calling the Galatians fools for listening to the legalizing Jewish Christians who told them they needed Christ and the Law. But those corrections were not regarding doubtful disputations, but was definitely the doctrine of men.
 
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AlexDTX

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Oh this is so true, and yet there are people out there who disagree with some of my insights (sigh)
We can disagree without calling one another heretics. For example, end time interpretations are certainly open for discussion but no one will really know until we live through it and it is over. Likewise, the mystery of the Godhead. As long as a one believes that Jesus is God in the flesh, it does not matter whether you believe in the Trinity or not. As far as I am concerned, the doctrine of the Trinity is only helpful in understanding how God could become a man yet remain an omnipresent Spirit. If a person knows they needed saving and trust in the deity and saving grace of Christ on the cross which brings them the new birth, that person is my brother.
 
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Ken Rank

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I also looked at Thayers but did not include it because my point was division. But I agree that those who try to force their opinions on others is a more appropriate use of the word heretic. Thanks for your feedback. Very good.
Sad to me Alex is that our culture has grown (devolved?) to the point where we call anything or anyone who doesn't agree with us... a heretic or a cult.
 
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AlexDTX

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One might think that by posting this thread that I don't believe there should be denominations or organized religion. On the contrary I understand its good. If we are members of the body of Christ, not all members are the same. As Paul told the Corinthians, if all were an eye where then is the hearing? etc. Likewise, we all naturally gravitate towards like minded people for friendship. But to quote Stephen Stills, Christ wants us "to love the one your with" (although Stills probably meant to haves sex with the nearest girl, and I don't mean that!). But we are to love one another in all our differences. Indeed, I think God needs the differences to be able to have his life fully expressed. He needs the different ethnicities, and he needs the different functions of personalities. My point is the division caused by being closed minded to only your point of view. One can still disagree with others while not dismissing them out of hand as heretics.
 
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rockytopva

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I am no fan of the abomination (oops! I meant denomination) who corrupts young minds in their religious cemeteries (oops! I meant seminaries).

“Love will not be constrain'd by mastery.
When mast'ry comes, the god of love anon
Beateth his wings, and, farewell! he is gone!
Love is a thing as any spirit free.” - Chaucer

It seems like when men feel they have arrived and have it all figured out that all spirituality withers away from that point forward.
 
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It's right that heresy comes from a word that means walking apart, i.e. disunion, so that makes it seem as though schism is what heresy is all about. Or denominationalism, if we prefer.

However, every church body that I know of teaches that heresy is holding to false doctrine of a serious nature. So I'm inclined to say that whether it's the Catholic Church, any of the Protestant churches, or some Christian based cult, it's still false doctrine that is what identifies a heresy.
 
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Considering how much I've been called a heretic from all facets of Christianity and am a self-described "theological mutt", to me the term heresy most of the time means "I disagree with your theology because my theology says so." There is a point where doctrine is actually wrong, which actually heresy.
 
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Albion

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That's true. What one church considers to be heresy is thought to be orthodoxy by the other one and vice-versa. There's almost no point in worrying about what causes some other church or member of such a church to make the accusation.

However, a heresy really must be proclaimed; it must have been determined to be a heresy. So if someone just launches the accusation with no church having officially decreed it to be such, that means even less.
 
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AlexDTX

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It's right that heresy comes from a word that means walking apart, i.e. disunion, so that makes it seem as though schism is what heresy is all about. Or denominationalism, if we prefer.

However, every church body that I know of teaches that heresy is holding to false doctrine of a serious nature. So I'm inclined to say that whether it's the Catholic Church, any of the Protestant churches, or some Christian based cult, it's still false doctrine that is what identifies a heresy.
Yes, I agree that is the common understanding. But what does Jesus care about? Unity in the spirit of Christ is more important to him, in my opinion, than doctrinal unity.
 
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