alcohol question

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by JoshFL, Dec 7, 2017.

  1. JoshFL New Member

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    I understand alcohol in moderation is not sin. Drunkenness is.
    Thats extremely clear.

    Heres my question.
    The bible says whatever is not faith is sin..
    So If im a christian and although I know drinking a beer is not sin but i feel weird or guilty or feel its a bad witness than it is sin to me?

    And if I drink a beer anyways and i feel its bad or sin like the bible says cause maybe its not from faith does that mean im living in sin and ill go to hell ?
     
  2. Ken Rank Well-Known Member

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    Define faith? If you, like many today, use the words faith and belief interchangeably, then that isn't what faith means. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God... and faith is dead without works/action. So... we hear God through the word and act on what we hear. If He says don't get drunk and you get drunk, you are not living by faith. He didn't say don't drink at all... He said to remain sober.
     
  3. ewq1938 Chewbacca kree! Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    Only God decides what is sin and what is not and besides, you already stated you know this is not a sin so any secondary unsure thoughts are doubts that aren't as strong as what you already said you already understand :)
     
  4. durangodawood Dis Member

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    What does that mean?

    What else might be "not in faith"?

    Bike riding?
    Chess playing?
    Getting your hair done?
     
  5. ewq1938 Chewbacca kree! Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    Rom 14:23 But if you do have doubts about what you eat, you are going against your beliefs. And you know that is wrong, because anything you do against your beliefs is sin.
     
  6. Mskriskris Well-Known Member

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    A little off the OP, but I so appreciate your response, and using Romans 10:17. A few weeks back, I asked my parents if they believed that people of other religions had faith, and although they said "yes they do", my argument was that they wouldn't because faith is based on God. The most other religions would have would be a belief, but there's no Truth in it.

    You post cleared that up for me, so I thank you. :)
     
  7. Mskriskris Well-Known Member

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    Yes, in that light it would be considered a sin. Is it a sin in every situation? No.

    For instance, if you were just drinking a beer on your own, or among friends to celebrate, then thats fine. But if you are drinking knowing that either its going against your conscious or being a potential stumbling block, you're now rebellious at heart towards God, and that is considered a sin. The point is that the liberties of Christ are not to be misused, Paul in 1 Corinthians talks about how even though he can do things, he would chose to go to great lengths to avoid it for the sake of the gospel.

    Some people though go to such great lengths that it gets to the point of legalism, or some ignore it so much that discernment isn't there. So its situational, but in every situation you're not damned, just whenever you're convinced that your heart isn't on the things of God, bring it up to the Father.
     
  8. Sketcher Born Imperishable

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    Let's say there was a gray area issue you were trying to find your way on. You're not sure if it's right, but you lean heavily toward it being wrong. Your study and prayer hasn't found a circumstance where it would be right yet, but you go ahead and do it anyway. That would be sin.

    In terms of drinking beer, if you're of the legal drinking age and you are not getting drunk, and obeying all other applicable laws, and you are not doing it around an alcoholic who's at risk of falling off the wagon, and there's nothing else inappropriate about the setting or the company, having a drink is not sin.
     
  9. ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    It's not good to bog down your conscience like that. If something truly bothers your conscience then it's certainly not good to do it. But it's also worth considering if it's your conscience that is bothered, or if it is more of a hangup--that is, that it's psychological in nature rather than moral. In either case, it may be worth taking the time to ask yourself why you feel guilt about this.

    As to whether it's a sin or not, It could be. If you are doing something that you feel is wrong, then it is difficult to be doing that thing in good faith--and it's that itself that becomes the problem here and where "whatever is not of faith is sin" is meaningful.

    Ideally you have a well-informed and good pastor that you could bring these up with and who can offer spiritual counsel on the subject. Nobody on this forum can be a substitute for pastoral care.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  10. JoshFL New Member

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    I guess where I get concerned or worried is, I have claimed being sober for a long time and I feel like people look at christians that drink like they are not real christians or of the world "even though some may not be worldly" some people may not have enough knowledge and look at it weird. I dont want it to ruin my witness thats where I get bothered. Even if im not doing it around people, and im in the comfort of my home, just the idea that people if they ask if i drink and i say yes, i dont want it to be a turn off or something.
     
  11. ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    The short answer? It means don't go against your conscience.

    Long answer? St. Paul is talking about the liberty of conscience, and that certain things are fundamentally amoral--such as what we eat--but that different people have different conscientious responses to certain things. The example of eating meat Paul uses is perhaps still relevant today as there are plenty of people who feel that eating meat is unconscionable, perhaps because they have a problem against eating another animal or perhaps they are disturbed by rather unscrupulous animal farming practices. Such a person should not be compelled to eat meat against their conscience; and conversely someone who is okay with eating meat should not be condemned. So whether one eats meat or abstains from meat is ultimately a matter of individual conscience, and what is important is having a clear conscience before God, and that regardless of where one falls on such an issue that they are doing so in good faith before God. If someone believes eating meat is wrong, it would be wrong for them to eat meat--and thus are not abiding by conscience, and that is what is meant by "everything that does not come from faith is sin". Or, in other words, don't go against your conscience.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  12. ewq1938 Chewbacca kree! Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    If you are an AA meeting or something, sure don't talk about it but outside of that it isn't a sin to admit you drink something that simply isn't sinful. Only in extreme cases would it possibly harm the other person and be a sin to you.
     
  13. RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    Yes you are correct. If you are doing something you believe is wrong...to you it is sin. Now I wont send you to the big toaster oven in the ground.....but you may run into some bad dudes.
     
  14. durangodawood Dis Member

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    Ah ok..

    Well then, regarding alcohol we see certain churchy movements doing exactly what Paul says we shouldnt: trying to cultivate in others a guilty conscience.
     
  15. Mskriskris Well-Known Member

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    Cut yourself some slack.

    Work with how the scriptures address these issues and just judge the situation as you go. If its better for you to not drink at all, then don't. If you know there are certain situations that its more frown upon to do it, then don't do it. If you are being condemned for it, educate them with the Word, and if they are not receptive pray for them and keep the peace. At the end of the day, God knows His own. But saying yes ultimately isn't a sin, its being honest with people.
     
  16. Petros2015 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe God is just calling you personally to sobriety even though you are not prone to drunkenness? If it's a personal calling, I'd say follow it.
     
  17. FireDragon76 Evangelical Catholic Supporter

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    If your drinking is not impacting the life of others or yourself negatively, then it's not a sin.

    If you don't drink, there is really no good reason to start drinking, that is the government's official health advice.

    Personally, I don't think its a big deal. You are capable of judging for yourself. This idea that every behavior in your life must be regulated by religious scruples is unhealthy, it definitely goes against what my faith teaches, that we should reserve moral considerations for things that actually matter, like how it impacts our neighbor's health and welfare, or our own health and welfare. Otherwise we could become pharisees with a dead faith, obsessing about things that aren't that important.
     
  18. Sarah G Human bean. Supporter

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    Maybe you are struggling with your ego because you get a wee buzz of dopamine when you can proudly state ''I don't drink, ever!''. So maybe it is actually a sin not to drink in your case :D

    Full disclosure: I'm projecting my own struggles onto your post.
     
  19. Tom Farebrother Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Maybe it’s just the associations you make in your own mind with drinking beer? For example, my grandad was a Baptist minister but one who appreciated good wine, he never drank to excess but would regularly drink a glass or 2. So that’s always been a good association for me. Might be worth thinking through what it is that affects how you feel about drinking a beer, given that it’s not the fact of drinking a beer itself that is a problem for you, but how you feel about it.
     
  20. ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    I agree, and I think that's deeply problematic. In "churchy" circles we tend to refer to that sort of thing as "legalism"; though I think a more accurate term is moralism. The moralist seeks to control the behavior of others through the establishment of [usually arbitrary] moral rules. Where legalism is generally understood as the idea one has that they can be righteous through their own attempt at obeying God's Law; moralism is the attempt to manipulate and control the behavior of others by insisting on arbitrary moral codes and rules. As a Lutheran I find both to be toxic to the spiritual health of the Church.

    -CryptoLutheran