Alan Dershowitz: Impeachment Over Protected Speech Would Harm the Constitution

[Pommer]

Considering that the Capitol Building was breached BEFORE and during the time Trump made his speech...

This tells a different story but I’m sure that you knew that...

 

[A_Thinker]

When I was a kid, it was still not uncommon for a political leader in the south to say something like, "I am not a man of violence, but if the negroes perpetuating that march should should cause push good white people beyond their level of restraint, it would be understandable," knowing that there were people who would take his words for action.

Excellent example of "Now, I'm not personally inciting violence, ... but ... you know what happens when people get angry ... "

Trump has actually implicitly made this argument ... in the time SINCE the storming of the Capitol ...

 

[A_Thinker]

Senate rules aren't the same as in the house.

And just because Nancy wants to speak and blather on about something that is not relevant any longer means nothing to Mitch. She doesn't run the Senate...he does. He might be angry at Trump...but that anger can be directed towards her for trying to force him to do something that he doesn't want to mess with...and legally doesn't have to.

Mitch has already said that he is "pleased with the Impeachment efforts" ... and that conviction by the Senate is on the table, though delayed until after Biden's Inauguration ...

McConnell is said to be pleased about impeachment, believing it will be easier to purge Trump from the G.O.P.

McConnell leans toward convicting Trump in an impeachment trial

 

[Hazelelponi]

It sounds like you haven't been keeping up with current events.

With the election victories of Democrats Raphael Warnock and Jon Ossoff in both a special and regular election in Georgia, respectively, McConnell is expected to return to the position of minority leader, as both Democrats' victories ensured a 50–50 tie in the Senate, which can be broken by Vice President-elect Kamala Harris.

In January 2021, McConnell indicated that he believes the impeachment of Trump for his role in inciting the 2021 storming of the United States Capitol is justified.

To convict in the Senate a simple majority won't be enough, it takes a 2/3 majority..

Not only that, but convicting an impeachment after an individual is out of office has never been done, and the only close precedent determined they could not after a person was no longer holding office.

If they do it anyway, this runs the risk of becoming a constitutional crisis.

 

[A_Thinker]

To convict in the Senate a simple majority won't be enough, it takes a 2/3 majority..

Not only that, but convicting an impeachment after an individual is out of office has never been done, and the only close precedent determined they could not after a person was no longer holding office.

If they do it anyway, this runs the risk of becoming a constitutional crisis.

I think that the objective is not necessarily to convict him, ... but to ultimately prevent him from running for public office again ...

EXPLAINER: Barring Trump from holding office again

 

[Hazelelponi]

I think that the objective is not necessarily to convict him, ... but to ultimately prevent him from running for public office again ...

EXPLAINER: Barring Trump from holding office again

They can't bar him from holding office again if they don't vote to convict..

 

[Belk]

To convict in the Senate a simple majority won't be enough, it takes a 2/3 majority..

Not only that, but convicting an impeachment after an individual is out of office has never been done, and the only close precedent determined they could not after a person was no longer holding office.

If they do it anyway, this runs the risk of becoming a constitutional crisis.

It has happened multiple times throughout history.

In 1797, the House of Representatives impeached and the Senate expelled Sen. William Blount of Tennessee for committing "high crimes and misdemeanors" after President John Adams charged Blount with taking part in a British plot. The Senate held Blount's impeachment trial after he was kicked out of office.

In 1876, the House impeached ex-Secretary of War William Belknap after he resigned from office over a corruption scandal. What is more, as the legal scholar Brian C. Kalt notes in his exhaustive study, "The Constitutional Case for the Impeachability of Former Federal Officials," "the House unanimously voted and the Senate ruled specifically that resignation could not terminate the congressional impeachment process."

Yes, the Senate May Hold Trump's Impeachment Trial After He Leaves Office

 

[wing2000]

Dershowitz’ premise is stupid- behavior doesn’t have to be criminal for it to he worthy of impeachment. Trump would be within his constitutional rights to say nothing in his press conferences except “Mike Pence is a poopy head,” but that, too, would be worthy of impeachment because it would constitute a dereliction of his duties and a besmirching of the office.

The article of impeachment charges the President is a danger to the country by- actual text:

• "....subvert and obstruct the certification of the results of the 2020 Presidential election. Those prior efforts included a phone call on January 2, 22 2021, during which President Trump urged the secretary 23 of state of Georgia, Brad Raffensperger, to ‘‘find’’ enough 24 votes to overturn the Georgia Presidential election result and threatened Secretary Raffensperger if he failed to do 2 so.
• "President Trump gravely endangered the security of the United States and its institutions of Government. He threatened the integrity of the democratic system, interfered with the peaceful transition of power, and imperiled a coequal branch of Government. He thereby betrayed his trust as President, to the manifest injury of the people of the United States."

"Wherefore, Donald John Trump, by such conduct, has demonstrated that he will remain a threat to national security, democracy, and the Constitution if allowed to remain in office, and has acted in a manner grossly incompatible with self-governance and the rule of law. Donald John Trump thus warrants impeachment and trial, removal from office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust, or profit under the United States."


The founders of our country granted the power of impeachment for this very scenario.

A prosecutor could easily make the case for these charges based on the evidence available publicly.

 

[KCfromNC]

To convict in the Senate a simple majority won't be enough, it takes a 2/3 majority..

Not only that, but convicting an impeachment after an individual is out of office has never been done

Up until last week a president never incited a violent mob to attack the US Capitol, either. So "but this is unique" might not be the best defense.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

To convict in the Senate a simple majority won't be enough, it takes a 2/3 majority..

Yes; however, the point being addressed was that McConnell is the one to set the senate agenda. As of January 20th, that will no longer be true.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Yes; however, the point being addressed was that McConnell is the one to set the senate agenda. As of January 20th, that will no longer be true.

I thought the meaning intended was that waiting for more democrat Senators to come in would get them the end result they are after, that of conviction on the impeachment vote...

They can't get a conviction without convincing several republican senators to join them... the VP won't be a deciding vote, she's only the deciding vote in the event of a tie in cases where a 2/3 vote is unnecessary.

 

[Valletta]

From this Newsweek opinion piece...



Thoughts?

First, I wonder if the writer ever listened to the President's speech, there was nothing in that speech that was inflammatory. I would put this in the middle of political speeches, and there is no way you can fairly characterize it as otherwise. The left wingers are framing the President.

 

[Valletta]

Yes; however, the point being addressed was that McConnell is the one to set the senate agenda. As of January 20th, that will no longer be true.

And there will be another President. Impeachment papers will be filed in Congress the first day Joe takes office. I think all the evidence needs to be carefully evaluated, Joe has every right to a deliberative process.

 

[Speedwell]

And there will be another President. Impeachment papers will be filed in Congress the first day Joe takes office. I think all the evidence needs to be carefully evaluated, Joe has every right to a deliberative process.

So what will he have done in that short time to merit impeachment?

 

[A_Thinker]

And there will be another President. Impeachment papers will be filed in Congress the first day Joe takes office. I think all the evidence needs to be carefully evaluated, Joe has every right to a deliberative process.

Investigate away. The truth is already out there ...

 

[Belk]

First, I wonder if the writer ever listened to the President's speech, there was nothing in that speech that was inflammatory. I would put this in the middle of political speeches, and there is no way you can fairly characterize it as otherwise. The left wingers are framing the President.

Yes, all those "left wingers" at the American conservative and the Wall Street Journal.

 

[durangodawood]

From this Newsweek opinion piece...



Thoughts?

Flat out wrong.

Criminal prosecution for protected speech would harm the constitution.

But of course there's all kinds of legally permissible things a president could say that amount to impeachable conduct by a president, things that amount to "high crimes and misdemeanors" according to the understanding of that phrase at the time the constitution was written.

For me, I dont even think this particular speech was the centerpiece of Trumps impeachable conduct. It was more like the capstone.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

So what will he have done in that short time to merit impeachment?

Won the election?
Defeated God's chosen Dictator?
Upset the fragile supporters on the right?
Called the people who looted the Capitol Terrorists?
Didn't concede to Trump on November 4th?
Want's to do something about COVID-19?
Oh, there is plenty for the unhinged to Impeach Biden for.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

And there will be another President. Impeachment papers will be filed in Congress the first day Joe takes office. I think all the evidence needs to be carefully evaluated, Joe has every right to a deliberative process.

And you really think that the Democratic majority in the House will vote to impeach him? Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

 

[Valletta]

Yes, all those "left wingers" at the American conservative and the Wall Street Journal.

I'll have to check out this "American Conservative" but the WSJ is quite establishment, I would say not far from CNBC.