Alabama's Restrictive Abortion Law: Rape and Incest Discussion

[Archivist]

Below are pictures of the children who were conceived when their mothers were raped. Would you look them in the eye and tell them that their lives are not as valuable as yours because their fathers were rapists? Did they deserve to die?
Children Born Of Rape Pose To Show That They’re Beautiful And Can Be Loved Too
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If you have read this thread, and apparently you have not, you know that I have said that the choice to carry the fetus to term must rest with the rape victim. I have NEVER said that every fetus conceived by rape must be aborted, which is what your post wrongly implies.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

If you have read this thread, and apparently you have not, you know that I have said that the choice to carry the fetus to term must rest with the rape victim. I have NEVER said that every fetus conceived by rape must be aborted, which is what your post wrongly implies.

So only their mother has the right to tell these children they are worthless?

 

[Archivist]

So only their mother has the right to tell these children they are worthless?

I doubt that would be said. She would probably say that because of the emotional challenge she just can’t carry the fetus of her attacker to term. But if you are ever a victim of rape, by all means make sure to carry the fetus to term.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

I doubt that would be said. She would probably say that because of the emotional challenge she just can’t carry the fetus of her attacker to term. But if you are ever a victim of rape, by all means make sure to carry the fetus to term.

But if the mother declares that the children are worthless, are the children then worthless? Should we then consider them worthless too?

 

[Archivist]

But if the mother declares that the children are worthless, are the children then worthless? Should we then consider them worthless too?

A. I already said that I doubt she would make such a statement.
B. On the extreme outside chance that she would say that why would we have to consider them to be worthless just because she does? Just because Donald Trump said that he was going to build a wall on the Mexican border and that Mexico will pay for it, do we have to believe him? After all, he is the president.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

A. I already said that I doubt she would make such a statement.
B. On the extreme outside chance that she would say that why would we have to consider them to be worthless just because she does? Just because Donald Trump said that he was going to build a wall on the Mexican border and that Mexico will pay for it, do we have to believe him? After all, he is the president.

You have not answered the question. If the rape victim can determine the value of the life in her womb to be worthless because the child was conceived from rape, how does that value change after the baby is born? How then do you justify your disagreement with the victim before the baby is born but not after?

BTW, the reason why you doubt the mother would make such a statement is because after the mother meets her child, she knows that the baby is precious. That value did not change, it has already been there regardless of how she felt prior to delivery. She just didn't see it until she saw her precious baby's eyes looking up at her. So why cant you see that now? Why cant you see that the child's life is precious regardless of what the rape victim believes?

 

[Archivist]

You have not answered the question. If the rape victim can determine the value of the life in her womb to be worthless because the child was conceived from rape, how does that value change after the baby is born? How then do you justify your disagreement with the victim before the baby is born but not after?

BTW, the reason why you doubt the mother would make such a statement is because after the mother meets her child, she knows that the baby is precious. That value did not change, it has already been there regardless of how she felt prior to delivery. She just didn't see it until she saw her precious baby's eyes looking up at her. So why cant you see that now? Why cant you see that the child's life is precious regardless of what the rape victim believes?

But I have answered the question. The answer is that the rape victim wouldn’t say that. Just because a rape victim decides not to carry a fetus to term doesn’t mean that they believe the fetus is worthless.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

But I have answered the question. The answer is that the rape victim wouldn’t say that. Just because a rape victim decides not to carry a fetus to term doesn’t mean that they believe the fetus is worthless.

Why wouldn't a rape victim ever say that their child is worthless? Would then banning all rape victims from having abortions then create a differed value to the unborn. Meaning, they may not consider the baby valuable now, but they will after the baby is born. In regards to your second statement, if the baby was not considered "worthless" why then is the baby being terminated? Because the baby is worth just a little bit but just not worth enough to live?

 

[GodLovesCats]

So only their mother has the right to tell these children they are worthless?

The mother does not think her children are worthless. She just knows it is not a good time to have a child or even carry one in her body and because a rapist fertilized the egg, she would have to raise a kid alone. Remember rapists often target teenagers and girls can get pregnant before they are old enough to drive or get jobs.

 

[SPF]

The mother does not think her children are worthless. She just knows it is not a good time to have a child or even carry one in her body and because a rapist fertilized the egg, she would have to raise a kid alone. Remember rapists often target teenagers and girls can get pregnant before they are old enough to drive or get jobs.

So an acceptable alternative is to kill the child?

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

The mother does not think her children are worthless. She just knows it is not a good time to have a child or even carry one in her body and because a rapist fertilized the egg, she would have to raise a kid alone. Remember rapists often target teenagers and girls can get pregnant before they are old enough to drive or get jobs.

So the baby has worth, just not enough to deserve to live?

 

[GodLovesCats]

So an acceptable alternative is to kill the child?

I was responding to NUF, who wrongly claims raped girls think their babies have no worth or value.

But to answer your question, it is not a "good" alternative - just one that, if taken away, would be terrible for any raped teenage girl who has no access to the really good alternatives.

 

[GodLovesCats]

So the baby has worth, just not enough to deserve to live?

The baby deserves to live but the mother does not deserve to be forced to carry a baby she tried to avoid having for 9 months and suffer mentally, physically, and socially as a result.

 

[SPF]

I was responding to NUF, who wrongly claims raped girls think their babies have no worth or value.

But to answer your question, it is not a "good" alternative - just one that, if taken away, would be terrible for any raped teenage girl who has no access to the really good alternatives.

Thus, you’re saying that killing an unborn child is an acceptable alternative. At least own what you’re saying.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

The baby deserves to live but the mother does not deserve to be forced to carry a baby she tried to avoid having for 9 months and suffer mentally, physically, and socially as a result.

So the baby deserves to live, just not if the mother doesn't want it to? Or are you saying that the baby deserves to live, but it is acceptable for the mother to kill the baby regardless?

 

[Robert6671]

You know what pro lifers...lets ban abortion because of rape. Now are you going to provide therapy for the victim...and provide care for that child. We have 10s of thousands of poor and abused children already that we do not take care of them the social services and foster parent system are joke. Some people have abortions because they can not afford a child. So they have the child and give it to the state which you are allowed to do. How many of you Christians are going to open your homes to those kids. So we ban abortion what are going to about those kids. We have already seen how social services and the foster care system takes care of the youngest of our poor and needy and most people do not give them a second thought. You want to force rape victims to give birth to there rapist kids...then you need to be willing to care of the victim and the child...if not...Shut up!

 

[Servant of Yeshua]

Would anybody like to guess the probability Alabama's law will be ruled unconstitutional (because it is) by the Supreme Court?

Slavery was once celebrated and considered both legal and constitutional. It was considered unconstitutional at that time to take away a person's right to own another human because they were african american and therefore considered property. Bought and paid for. Once people have rights, it is very hard to take them away. Our country was divided on this. But now, thankfully eyes were opened to the horror. Our rights terminate where another person's are affected.

If someone is not a Christian, than I can see why they think that nothing they do matters at all. I get why they don't care. Because if there is no God, then there are no consequences and nothing at all matters.
But... If someone is a follower of Jesus Christ, then they know that God is the Alpha and the Omega. He alone is the author and creator of life. ( Jeremiah 1:5 ) He knew each person before He formed them in the womb (Psalm 139:14-16) . There is not one life that has not been created on purpose. One gets a soul from the Lord and that soul lives forever in one of 2 places. The bottom line is that no matter how difficult one has it here on Earth for their very limited time, we will have our eternal life destination impacted if we kill an innocent life without a complete repentance and trust in Jesus Christ. When anyone kills an innocent life their heart is hardened without a miracle and they have rejected an eternity with Christ. Is 9 months of carrying a child that God placed in your womb for His purpose way too hard that a person should give up eternity in heaven over it? God will bless those who choose His ways and do His hard work while here on earth. Trust in Him 100%. Christ is worth it and eternity with Him is at stake.

 

[Servant of Yeshua]

You know what pro lifers...lets ban abortion because of rape. Now are you going to provide therapy for the victim...and provide care for that child. We have 10s of thousands of poor and abused children already that we do not take care of them the social services and foster parent system are joke. Some people have abortions because they can not afford a child. So they have the child and give it to the state which you are allowed to do. How many of you Christians are going to open your homes to those kids. So we ban abortion what are going to about those kids. We have already seen how social services and the foster care system takes care of the youngest of our poor and needy and most people do not give them a second thought. You want to force rape victims to give birth to there rapist kids...then you need to be willing to care of the victim and the child...if not...Shut up!

Have done it for 2 children who both (now at ages 12 and 17) cannot even fathom why anyone would think that they should have been killed. Yet my oldest actually had kids after the last election arguing at her lunch table saying " abortion is better than to make a kid go to foster care and get abused"....she was very upset She cried "HOW can you say that! You are all alive and think you can say it is better for someone else to be dead. "

We know so many Christians who all have done the same through Bethany Christian Services, Salvation Army, etc. Given an opportunity babies DO get adopted. The mass of kids that you are talking about are not babies and those who are " in the system" are the ones whose parents use them to get government money (usually drug addicts) and are treating their kids like property and play this game where they do just barely enough to hold on to legal custody and the kids get bounced back and forth in foster care while the parent plays games. But babies legally up for adoption get adopted. So many parents are waiting years for babies that many get discouraged for the long wait and then spend lots of money to adopt overseas.

Rape is such a horrible thing. We need to focus our energy on stopping rape and stopping unwanted pregnancies. I was sexually abused as a child from ages 7-9. I live the pain. But murder takes away life and all hope. Do not compound the violence. Abortion only compounds the violence and those heroes who give life after rape give their stories over and over in pro-life magazines. Sadly people who think she should have killed the innocent baby never read their stories or know how they are so thankful they did not commit murder of the innocent.

 

[Archivist]

So an acceptable alternative is to kill the child?

An acceptable alternative is to let the choice up to the rape victim.

 

[Archivist]

So the baby has worth, just not enough to deserve to live?

No one is saying that the fetus has no worth. The choice has to remain with the rape victim. She could choose to carry the fetus to term.