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Featured Alabama's Restrictive Abortion Law: Rape and Incest Discussion

Discussion in 'Debates on Abortion' started by SPF, May 15, 2019 at 9:58 AM.

  1. SPF

    SPF Well-Known Member

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    Alabama Senate passes near-total abortion ban - CNNPolitics

    The Alabama law makes abortion illegal except for three exceptions:
    • "To avoid a serious health risk to the unborn child's mother"
    • For ectopic pregnancy
    • If the "unborn child has a lethal anomaly."
    You'll see that of the exceptions, rape and incest are not among them. Opponents of the bill did attempt to have it amended to include rape and incest. Here is what Eric Johnson said below:

    Eric Johnston, head of the Alabama Pro-life Coalition and the drafter of the initial legislation, told CNN "it would upend the law's legal standing.Regardless of how the conception takes place, the product is a child, and so we're saying that that unborn child is a person entitled to protection of law," he added. "So if, be it a rape or incest conception, then it would be impossible to ask a judge which of these is protected by law and which is not."

    I think he's right. When it comes to the morality of abortion, the how in which a new human being comes into existence plays absolutely no role in determining their moral worth and value.
     
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  2. Archivist

    Archivist Senior Veteran Supporter

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    The failure to include rape and incest as exceptions was done to guarantee that this law (if signed) will get appealed to the Supreme Court.
     
  3. SPF

    SPF Well-Known Member

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    Sure, but my point is that it is morally consistent.

    Put two children side by side, one having come into the being from a mother who was raped, and the other the result of a loving, married couple that greatly desired her - put them side by side, and you won't be able to tell the difference, they both would be equally morally valuable.

    And that's the point - our moral worth and value as humans has nothing to do with how we were conceived.
     
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  4. Archivist

    Archivist Senior Veteran Supporter

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    And I don’t think anyone is arguing that point, at least I’m not.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019 at 11:04 AM
  5. SPF

    SPF Well-Known Member

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    Glad we agree!
     
  6. Archivist

    Archivist Senior Veteran Supporter

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    The question in the case of rape isn’t the moral worth of the fetus, but whether you can force the pregnant woman to carry the fetus to term if doing so is against her will. She didn't ask to be raped.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019 at 11:38 AM
  7. SPF

    SPF Well-Known Member

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    That certainly is a question, just not the question I was addressing.
     
  8. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Yes and the child is never to suffer the sentence of the father.
     
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  9. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats God Seeker

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    An appeal is a request to hear an unfavorable ruling at the next level up. First at least one woman in AL 0 preferably a mother who was impregnanted by rape - needs to file a lawsuit against the state (hopefully a class action suit(), This would be heard by the Alabama Supreme Court.

    Sorry SPF, but there is no reason to force a raped teenage girl to stay pregnant for nine months.
     
  10. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats God Seeker

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    I wish I could rate this post five times.
     
  11. SPF

    SPF Well-Known Member

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    It's all about being consistent, right?

    The bill's author had it right when he said: "Regardless of how the conception takes place, the product is a child, and so we're saying that that unborn child is a person entitled to protection of law..."

    The morality of abortion stands or falls with how we understand the nature of the life of the unborn. How they came into existence has absolutely no bearing upon their personal moral worth and value, right?
     
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  12. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats God Seeker

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    SPF, why do you continually refuse to accept the fact that THE MOTHER HAS MORAL VALUE TOO? Forcing her to deliver a baby 9 months after she told a man not to have sex with her is saying she has no moral value.
     
  13. ms.smith

    ms.smith Member

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    At this point in medical technology, there is no way to avoid the killing of the child and spare the mother having to carry the child.

    The LIFE of the child has more value than ~9 months of the mother's distress. However great that distress and discomfort are, isn't worth more than a person's life.

    Please argue to me how a person's great distress for a fixed time, less than 1 year, which will ultimately be resolved, is worth extinguishing the life of another.
     
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  14. SPF

    SPF Well-Known Member

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    I have never once questioned the moral value of the mother. She has equal inherent moral worth and value as the unborn. Why do you insist on placing MORE moral worth and value upon 9 months of the mother's life in comparison to the entirety of another human's life? Why do you think it's moral to literally kill another human being because of the wrong someone committed against someone else?

    You're not being consistent. The question really comes down to whether or not you believe an unborn human really is created in God's image and really does possess inherent moral worth and value. To suggest that it's acceptable for a woman to kill an innocent and vulnerable human being because of something tragic and horrible that was done to her is dehumanizing the innocent and vulnerable human and saying they are worth less than she.
     
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  15. Archivist

    Archivist Senior Veteran Supporter

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    That is a decision that needs to be made by the rape victim, not by the Alabama legislature or by you. The only reason that was included in the law was to guarantee that it gets appealed to the US Supreme Court.
     
  16. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats God Seeker

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    It just really upsets me that you keep saying the same thing about the unborn baby's moral worth and do not also express the fact that his/her mother is equally important. Your posts appaer extremely biased. It would help if you made it clear you do fnot downplay the moral worth and value of the mother.

    We are talking about a state law in this thread, so it is appropriate to express an opinion about why rape, incest, and sexual assault should still be legally permitted in Alabama. I am looking at the political side of abortion, which is that the Declaration of Independence and U.S. Consttitution only guarantee liberty and happiness to people who are counted in the American population. Because of the Constitut6ional freedom of religion, I respect the separation between church and state when choosing my political views.
     
  17. SPF

    SPF Well-Known Member

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    So if the law recognized the unborn as possessing the same rights as the born, I would assume you would change your view because the right to life certainly trumps someone’s happiness for 9 months, right?

    I mean, if the law seeks to protect the rights of people and the innocent, then as there are no better examples of innocent people than the unborn who have never done anything wrong, we should ban abortion for non-medical emergencies.
     
  18. bekkilyn

    bekkilyn Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Liberty and happiness for everyone but women it would seem.
     
  19. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    The difference is one is inconvenienced for 9 months the other is killed. The raped girl will survive the pregnancy the infant won’t survive the abortion. So we’re weighing inconvenience versus death. Which is worse? One is temporary the other is permanent.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019 at 5:38 PM
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  20. SPF

    SPF Well-Known Member

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    As opposed to what? Death to a human to ensure 9 months of liberty? That sounds better to you?
     
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