Alabama pastor holds ‘whites only’ conference

[TLK Valentine]

I don't know because I wasn't there and the article provided in the OP didn't say.

Good point. It's always senseless to speculate before getting the facts straight from both sides.

Be that as it may, in the history of the United States, especially Alabama, an event explicitly labeled as "Whites Only" usually doesn't bode well for non-whites.

 

[Yarddog]

Be that as it may, in the history of the United States, especially Alabama, an event explicitly labeled as "Whites Only" usually doesn't bode well for non-whites.

One might assume the same for any ethic group but should not if we're truly a Christian gathering.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Listen, people dont get prosecuted unless they commit a crime. Don't complain that white people aren't getting caught, hows about just not committing crimes?

Poverty is NO EXCUSE for breaking laws.

That's the same excuse people always use.

Yes...we all know...people shouldn't be committing crimes.

However, that doesn't make disproportionate enforcement of the law (especially with regards to non-violent drug crimes) any more justifiable or any less concerning.

Again, you're right people shouldn't be committing crimes. However, the criminal justice system should be equitable with their sentencing when they do. It shouldn't be Small Fine+Probation for the white guys and Felony Charge+18 months jail for the black guys (which, statistically for first time offenders, that's what it currently is).


I use the analogy of a rigged boxing match to describe this scenario.

Joe is boxing Mike.

In the first two rounds, the ref makes Mike wear a blindfold and ties his feet together...Joe pummels him for the first two rounds.

Then, between rounds 2 and 3, the officials say "You know, that's not really all that fair, we'll going to let Mike take off the blindfold and untie his feet".

...and then, the people who really didn't care that much for Mike anyway, say "Hmmm...y'know, everything was made fair and starting in round 3, the rules were equal for both guys, if Mike doesn't win, it's his own fault for not trying hard enough" (completely ignoring the reality that Mike is already punch drunk from the first two rounds and way behind in points)

 

[TLK Valentine]

One might assume the same for any ethic group but should not if we're truly a Christian gathering.

Well, to explicitly say they're not "truly" Christian would be against forum rules, but suffice it to say I'm skeptical of their motives for excluding non-whites.

 

[DaisyDay]

Listen, people dont get prosecuted unless they commit a crime.

Are you kidding? It happens daily.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Aren't there numerous organizations just for blacks?

Exactly but do not let the whites try that.
M-Bob

 

[DaisyDay]

Exactly but do not let the whites try that.
M-Bob

Why not? They do it all the time. As long as they don't try to make it tax-deductible or public-funded, it's allowed.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

Why not? They do it all the time. As long as they don't try to make it tax-deductible or public-funded, it's allowed.

Yes, the KKK and other white nationalists still gather together in rallies.

Disturbing photos of the modern-day Ku Klux Klan

4 extremist groups that will be part of weekend's White Lives Matter rallies

 

[He is Risen 72]

Joe is boxing Mike.

In the first two rounds, the ref makes Mike wear a blindfold and ties his feet together...Joe pummels him for the first two rounds.

Then, between rounds 2 and 3, the officials say "You know, that's not really all that fair, we'll going to let Mike take off the blindfold and untie his feet".

...and then, the people who really didn't care that much for Mike anyway, say "Hmmm...y'know, everything was made fair and starting in round 3, the rules were equal for both guys, if Mike doesn't win, it's his own fault for not trying hard enough" (completely ignoring the reality that Mike is already punch drunk from the first two rounds and way behind in points)

How many more generations is “Mike” going to be “punch drunk”?

 

[Landon Caeli]

Are you kidding? It happens daily.

Let me guess... To blacks, right..? LOL. That's not what the statistics show.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Yes, the KKK and other white nationalists still gather together in rallies.

Disturbing photos of the modern-day Ku Klux Klan

4 extremist groups that will be part of weekend's White Lives Matter rallies

I'm very glad they do. I wish them good will, and hope for them the very best.

 

[Landon Caeli]

That's the same excuse people always use.

Yes...we all know...people shouldn't be committing crimes.

However, that doesn't make disproportionate enforcement of the law (especially with regards to non-violent drug crimes) any more justifiable or any less concerning.

Again, you're right people shouldn't be committing crimes. However, the criminal justice system should be equitable with their sentencing when they do. It shouldn't be Small Fine+Probation for the white guys and Felony Charge+18 months jail for the black guys (which, statistically for first time offenders, that's what it currently is).


I use the analogy of a rigged boxing match to describe this scenario.

Joe is boxing Mike.

In the first two rounds, the ref makes Mike wear a blindfold and ties his feet together...Joe pummels him for the first two rounds.

Then, between rounds 2 and 3, the officials say "You know, that's not really all that fair, we'll going to let Mike take off the blindfold and untie his feet".

...and then, the people who really didn't care that much for Mike anyway, say "Hmmm...y'know, everything was made fair and starting in round 3, the rules were equal for both guys, if Mike doesn't win, it's his own fault for not trying hard enough" (completely ignoring the reality that Mike is already punch drunk from the first two rounds and way behind in points)

The analogy doesn't fit very well when discussing black crime. It's always about the white guy. -- oh, he makes more money, he never gets caught, when he does get caught he gets off easy, he goes to better colleges, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla.

How about stop comparing to the white guy all the time.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

How many more generations is “Mike” going to be “punch drunk”?

However many it takes before people acknowledge the issues that are synonymous with perpetual poverty in "Mike's" community and make efforts to adjust for them.

If you look at it in term so time periods.

Slavery (in the region that is now the United States), really started taking hold in around 1620, continuously ramped up until it hit its peak from 1770-1820, and then lingered to the 1860's.

Then from 1860 to the 1960's, specific laws were put in place to keep them in "second class citizen" status in a sizable part of the country.

An official codified law that says that, by the letter of the law, they have to be treated equally wasn't put on paper until 1964.

...and it's important to note, that just because something was put on paper, that doesn't equate to being treated well by other members of society. The racists who wanted them in second class status in 1963, didn't magically say "awe shucks, I guess we have to be nice to them now, hey buddy come over for dinner this Friday" in 1970. They still went out of their way to snub them in public, purposely cut funding for "urban areas", intentionally overlook them for employment, and intentionally over-criminalize things that were prevalent in their community in order to keep them down.

Actual equality didn't start to show up until the early 1980's and even then, there are still pockets of the country where a black person wouldn't want to live for reasons of racism.


So, when you consider 200+ years of being owned by other people, 100 years of being legally treated as second class by half of the country, another 30 or so years of only being equal on paper, but still receiving horrible treatment from other spiteful members of society, and only about 30 years of being in a time where legitimate equality measures are being pushed for, to expect them to have completely bounced back by now is an unreasonable expectation (especially considering that there's still arguably 1/3 of the population actively denying that there's a problem).

 

[ThatRobGuy]

The analogy doesn't fit very well when discussing black crime. It's always about the white guy. -- oh, he makes more money, he never gets caught, when he does get caught he gets off easy, he goes to better colleges, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla.

How about stop comparing to the white guy all the time.

Well, when assessing issues of disproportionate enforcement of the law, and the effect that perpetual poverty has on certain communities, comparing is the only accurate way to assess that.

That's like saying "here are these two batches of apples, one is growing much better than the other...we need to figure out why...oh, but you you're not allowed compare how much water each batch was getting, and you can't compare the treatment the apple trees got from the farmers"

You can't solve a socioeconomic issue (or determine the root cause) if you immediately try to just dismiss every factor that may lead to a conclusion you don't want to acknowledge...which is exactly what you're doing here.

You seem desperate to uphold this myth that "they have just as much a shot to pull themselves up to upper class as anyone else". The reality is, with the current system and the fallout from the historical system, they do not. ...and the impact of the inequities start at a very young age from the time when they get to go to an underfunded school in a bad neighborhood, and the kids in the suburbs get to go to the nice one.


Economic classes are made perpetual by deliberate efforts to make the ability to accrue wealth, directly tied to the amount wealth one (or one's family) already has. It's not a coincidence that ~88% of people end up in the same economic classes as their parents.

...and it's not a hard concept to understand.

If you make "having a good education" the key metric for employment in a job with upward mobility, and you slap a high price tag on said education (whether that be directly for high priced colleges, or indirectly by the fact that going to a good public school means you have to live in an area with high property values), you're basically making sure that rich families stay rich, middle stays middle, and poor stays poor, and only ~12% of people each generation break that cycle. So when you have an environment where a particular community was deliberately kept in poverty (arguably up through the 1980's in some areas), and only 12% escape that rut every generation, to expect that everyone should be up to middle class within 30-40 years is absurd.

 

[AirPo]

I found the thread on a search of "Christian Identity Ministry"

Not hate, that's a distraction. God hasn't forbid hate, and says theres a time to hate. Some things justify hate but it's besides the point

Jerry Garcia said "Ain't no time to hate."

 

[Landon Caeli]

Well, when assessing issues of disproportionate enforcement of the law, and the effect that perpetual poverty has on certain communities, comparing is the only accurate way to assess that.

That's like saying "here are these two batches of apples, one is growing much better than the other...we need to figure out why...oh, but you you're not allowed compare how much water each batch was getting, and you can't compare the treatment the apple trees got from the farmers"

You can't solve a socioeconomic issue (or determine the root cause) if you immediately try to just dismiss every factor that may lead to a conclusion you don't want to acknowledge...which is exactly what you're doing here.

You seem desperate to uphold this myth that "they have just as much a shot to pull themselves up to upper class as anyone else". The reality is, with the current system and the fallout from the historical system, they do not. ...and the impact of the inequities start at a very young age from the time when they get to go to an underfunded school in a bad neighborhood, and the kids in the suburbs get to go to the nice one.


Economic classes are made perpetual by deliberate efforts to make the ability to accrue wealth, directly tied to the amount wealth one (or one's family) already has. It's not a coincidence that ~88% of people end up in the same economic classes as their parents.

...and it's not a hard concept to understand.

If you make "having a good education" the key metric for employment in a job with upward mobility, and you slap a high price tag on said education (whether that be directly for high priced colleges, or indirectly by the fact that going to a good public school means you have to live in an area with high property values), you're basically making sure that rich families stay rich, middle stays middle, and poor stays poor, and only ~12% of people each generation break that cycle. So when you have an environment where a particular community was deliberately kept in poverty (arguably up through the 1980's in some areas), and only 12% escape that rut every generation, to expect that everyone should be up to middle class within 30-40 years is absurd.

Rob, do you honestly think anyone gets a "shot" to the upper class? No, you have to take it. You have to steal it! It's not really an 'opportunity' for anyone, or else I would be there.

The best anyone should hope for is middle class. You can achieve it by dropping out of high school, getting a GED, going to a community college, and getting a certificate. Plumber, taxadermy, air conditioning specialist, embalmer for funeral homes, electrician, carpentry, stone masonry... These are all good middle class jobs. You mean to tell me that black people can't land one of these?

 

[Afra]

Exactly how white must one's skin be to qualify as white?

 

[Landon Caeli]

Exactly how white must one's skin be to qualify as white?

I don't know. Why?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Rob, do you honestly think anyone gets a "shot" to the upper class? No, you have to take it. You have to steal it! It's not really an 'opportunity' for anyone, or else I would be there.

The best anyone should hope for is middle class. You can achieve it by dropping out of high school, getting a GED, going to a community college, and getting a certificate. Plumber, taxadermy, air conditioning specialist, embalmer for funeral homes, electrician, carpentry, stone masonry... These are all good middle class jobs. You mean to tell me that black people can't land one of these?

If you're born into the upper class, then yes, you've been "shot into the upper class" so to speak.

The fact that you said "it's not really an opportunity for anyone" shows that you understand the concept that economic status is something that's perpetual.

...not sure what locale you live in, but where I'm from, dropping out, getting a GED, going to community college, and getting into a trade isn't the slam dunk you're describing it as. If you live in an area where there's no work, or there's simply not enough of the jobs you describe to go around, then you're still in the same rut.

You can only land the jobs that are open, and as it currently stands, the aspects I mentioned before still play a role. Take a look at the data pertaining to which "types" of names get callbacks for interviews. "Black-sounding" names get less than "White-sounding" names.

You're trying to dismiss all of the factors to keep your narrative in tact. The reality is, you can't. You can't ignore the fact that there are still biases based on race, you can't ignore the perpetual effects of poverty, and you can't ignore the fact that people are still in poverty today due to things that were done to their families and communities decades ago.

If you want to sincerely believe that "eh, they just don't want it bad enough, or they'd be out of poverty", then you're part of the kind of flawed thinking that's perpetuating certain issues.


Of course, when it's poor white communities having these issues (due to the same causes, perpetual poverty, bad education conditions, and lack of jobs in the community), all the same people who chastise blacks for not "dealing with it", are all of the sudden sympathetic to the cause and claim we need to put protectionist policies in place and "bring back coal" in order to get them employed again. Why is nobody lecturing the Trump fan club about how those coal workers just need to snag one of those awesome taxidermy or embalming jobs you described above?

 

[He is Risen 72]

However many it takes before people acknowledge the issues that are synonymous with perpetual poverty in "Mike's" community and make efforts to adjust for them.

If you look at it in term so time periods.

Slavery (in the region that is now the United States), really started taking hold in around 1620, continuously ramped up until it hit its peak from 1770-1820, and then lingered to the 1860's.

Then from 1860 to the 1960's, specific laws were put in place to keep them in "second class citizen" status in a sizable part of the country.

An official codified law that says that, by the letter of the law, they have to be treated equally wasn't put on paper until 1964.

...and it's important to note, that just because something was put on paper, that doesn't equate to being treated well by other members of society. The racists who wanted them in second class status in 1963, didn't magically say "awe shucks, I guess we have to be nice to them now, hey buddy come over for dinner this Friday" in 1970. They still went out of their way to snub them in public, purposely cut funding for "urban areas", intentionally overlook them for employment, and intentionally over-criminalize things that were prevalent in their community in order to keep them down.

Actual equality didn't start to show up until the early 1980's and even then, there are still pockets of the country where a black person wouldn't want to live for reasons of racism.


So, when you consider 200+ years of being owned by other people, 100 years of being legally treated as second class by half of the country, another 30 or so years of only being equal on paper, but still receiving horrible treatment from other spiteful members of society, and only about 30 years of being in a time where legitimate equality measures are being pushed for, to expect them to have completely bounced back by now is an unreasonable expectation (especially considering that there's still arguably 1/3 of the population actively denying that there's a problem).

The Indian people have suffered as second class citizens under centuries of Islamic and British rule and yet they seem to rise up pretty quickly, usually within one generation upon arriving to the United States. The same could be said for the Chinese and other Asian peoples.