Alabama governor signs restrictive abortion bill into law as ACLU vows to sue

[Shiloh Raven]

Born kids don't matter. They become "someone else's" problem at that point. but you're right, where is all the outrage from the so-called pro-life crowd about all the immigrant kids kept in concentration camps at our borders after having been viciously separated from their parents? Where is their "right to life"?

If I may offer you a bit of advice, you might want to back up and not use such a wide broad brush and stop lumping all pro-life advocates into one pile. As I said earlier in response to one of your other posts, I think your assessment is unfair of the entire pro-life movement, which includes people like me. I'm a liberal activist who opposes abortion and yet I not only advocate for the unborn but also I advocate for the children who are born. I can't speak for conservatives, but I objected to immigrant children being placed in detainment camps and separated from their families when Trump did it AND when Obama did it. It's not as if Trump is the first President to ever be firm with immigration.

 

[Steve Petersen]

The Supreme Court has no obligation to do so, that's true, but with a half a dozen states passing similar bills into law lately and all of them winding up in lower courts thanks to the ACLU or Planned Parenthood, there is at least a good chance of it.

I wouldn't count on it. The SCOUTUS rarely overturns itself. Eleven times in its entire history, I think.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Assuming they don't all get shot down by the lower courts for being blatant and transparent attempts to violate Roe v Wade... tell me, which federal court isn't going to see this coming?

What they're really counting on (and hoping for) is RBG kicking the bucket sometime before Trump is out of office -- conveniently forgetting McConnell's election year rule.

Nice to see that attitude come from the self professed 'pro-life' crowd.

 

[Albion]

But people will second guess moving there. National businesses won't open large operations there. States like mine will pass resolutions allowing no state travel to the state and the like. That is what I meant by "economic pariah".

On the other hand, if Alabama's law--or any of the other states' laws limitating abortion--succeeds in the Supreme Court, half the states in the nation will fall into that category and there will not be any particular "pariahs."

 

[Albion]

I wouldn't count on it. The SCOUTUS rarely overturns itself. Eleven times in its entire history, I think.

Yes, but remember that Roe v. Wade left a lot of gray area in its scope. The first trimester was a no-no, but thereafter there was room for abortions to be legal. Exactly under what circumstances that would be has not fully been adjudicated.

 

[PreviouslySeeking...]

On the other hand, if Alabama's law--or any of the other states' laws limitating abortion--succeeds in the Supreme Court, half the states in the nation will fall into that category and there will not be any particular "pariahs."

Keep telling yourself that. That would change the landscape significantly.

 

[Albion]

Keep telling yourself that. That would change the landscape significantly.

Well, so have all sorts of other laws that the Supreme Court changed in the past. School Segregation, for instance. Brown v. Board of Education.

It is not as though that decision had only a minor impact upon the day to day lives and pocketbooks of ordinary people across the country. What's more, that issue had been litigated before.

 

[mark kennedy]

SCOTUS might be the last bastion of the Constitution, but it's far from the only one. If this nonsense doesn't get shot down long before it gets to The Nine, I'll be unpleasantly surprised.

Alabama is certainly extreme but of the 22 state legislatures controlled by the GOP 11 have enacted antiabortion legislation, in Indiana it restricts abortion to 6 weeks if memory serves. It's a rush for the extreme, they want the Federal Courts to start intervening so they can start the appeals process. I don't see Roberts as a big fan of this kind of extreme antiabortion legislation, Alabama is not the ideal test case for conservatives.

 

[Albion]

But it is not as though 'conservatives' across America got together and chose the Alabama law to be their test case.

All these legislatures are hoping to get their own cases to the Supreme Court, and if the Court rules on any one of them, it might clarify the matter and allow some restrictions (which, when it first ruled against abortions, it seemed to say there could be restrictions under some circumstances).

 

[PreviouslySeeking...]

Well, so have all sorts of other laws that the Supreme Court changed in the past. School Segregation, for instance. Brown v. Board of Education.

It is not as though that decision had only a minor impact upon the day to day lives and pocketbooks of ordinary people across the country. What's more, that issue had been litigated before.

What percentage of the population are women? What percentage of the population was minority when Brown Vs the Board of Education was heard?

More people would be affected by a reversal on Roe Vs Wade and in those states that would outlaw abortion - women would be made legal slaves to a fetus.

The 2 cases don't merit comparison.

 

[Albion]

What percentage of the population are women?

You are very much mistaken if you assume that all women--because they are women--are in favor of abortion on demand.

 

[TLK Valentine]

What they're really counting on (and hoping for) is RBG kicking the bucket sometime before Trump is out of office -- conveniently forgetting McConnell's election year rule.

Nice to see that attitude come from the self professed 'pro-life' crowd.

In all fairness, McConnell himself forgot that rule -- among others -- 30 seconds after the election results came in.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Alabama is certainly extreme but of the 22 state legislatures controlled by the GOP 11 have enacted antiabortion legislation, in Indiana it restricts abortion to 6 weeks if memory serves. It's a rush for the extreme, they want the Federal Courts to start intervening so they can start the appeals process. I don't see Roberts as a big fan of this kind of extreme antiabortion legislation, Alabama is not the ideal test case for conservatives.

And once an appeals court shoots it down... as it should... there are several levels of federal court between the activists and SCOTUS...

... any one of which can refuse to hear the case and let the lower court's ruling stand... and that's the end of that.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

You are very much mistaken if you assume that all women--because they are women--are in favor of abortion on demand.

I'm certainly not one.

 

[mark kennedy]

And once an appeals court shoots it down... as it should... there are several levels of federal court between the activists and SCOTUS...

... any one of which can refuse to hear the case and let the lower court's ruling stand... and that's the end of that.

One of them has to make it to the Supreme Court, conservatives have a say in the matter and they don't want the Alabama case, maybe Georgia. None of the lower courts are going to affirm antiabortion legislation, that's a given but how many restrictions are permissible remains an open question.

Certainly SCOTUS can toss it back to the Federal courts if there is no clear Constitutional question for them, which is what happened to Proposition 8.

 

[TLK Valentine]

You are very much mistaken if you assume that all women--because they are women--are in favor of abortion on demand.

Agreed 100%.

And I, for one, respect their right to hold an opinion on the subject.

Too bad the government doesn't.

 

[TLK Valentine]

One of them has to make it to the Supreme Court,

One of them will likely make it to SCOTUS... there's a difference.

conservatives have a say in the matter and they don't want the Alabama case, maybe Georgia. None of the lower courts are going to affirm antiabortion legislation, that's a given but how many restrictions are permissible remains an open question.

And when those "restrictions" are seen as nothing more than an end run around Roe v Wade, they won't be filling anyone who isn't looking to be fooled.

Certainly SCOTUS can toss it back to the Federal courts if there is no clear Constitutional question for them, which is what happened to Proposition 8.

Considering that abortion is a Constitutional issue, any attempt to outlaw it, no matter how cleverly disguised, is a Constitutional question.

I'm saying that SCOTUS will decide that the lower courts already answer the question satisfactorily, and choose not to hear the case... if a lower court doesn't save them the trouble.

 

[mark kennedy]

Agreed 100%.

And I, for one, respect their right to hold an opinion on the subject.

Too bad the government doesn't.

Well they could take a page from Aristotle, vice is found in the extremes, virtue in the balance. Certainly Catholics should take note, then there is Ben Franklin who's compromise proposal was the key to ratifying a Constitution in Philadelphia. I wonder have we forgotten that. I remember when Bill Clinton took office, I was ecstatic watching c-span daily to see what wonders would be worked. Then the partial birth abortion showed up, taking forceps and snapping the babies neck 5 months into the pregnancy, I was strictly prolife after that. Then I decided to do a little research on fetuses and by the eleventh week every organ if functioning, even though it's about the size of an aspirin.

Should we drown babies at birth because they are not alive until they breath on their own? How about leaving them to die because they are not viable outside of the womb yet? Neither extreme is tenable and I really get tired of the extremes.

 

[PreviouslySeeking...]

You are very much mistaken if you assume that all women--because they are women--are in favor of abortion on demand.

Lol, I assume no such thing. My point was- this has the potential to affect a lot more people. Additionally, not everyone who considers themselves prolife supports this extremity either.

 

[PreviouslySeeking...]

You are very much mistaken if you assume that all women--because they are women--are in favor of abortion on demand.

Lol, I assume no such thing. My point was- this has the potential to affect a lot more people. Additionally, not everyone who considers themselves prolife supports this extremity either.