Akathist: Bones of the Living Dead

[Justin-H.S.]

A new Christian metal band has released its first single. Very promising.

Theocracy is another great Christian metal band.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I guess if you gotta listen to metal, better that than others.

 

[Justin-H.S.]

I guess if you gotta listen to metal, better that than others.

Fr. I heard that we shouldn't listen to liturgical music outside of liturgy, or at least not in a profane manner. The same way priestly vestments shouldn't be worn outside of liturgy/liturgical acts. I used to and still do listen to chant in my truck/car from time to time, but I thought maybe I'm profaning the sacred music if I were to fall into road rage or something.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Fr. I heard that we shouldn't listen to liturgical music outside of liturgy, or at least not in a profane manner. The same way priestly vestments shouldn't be worn outside of liturgy/liturgical acts. I used to and still do listen to chant in my truck/car from time to time, but I thought maybe I'm profaning the sacred music if I were to fall into road rage or something.

sure, my issue is metal is naturally aggressive, loud, and distorted, so it’d be easier to road rage to that despite Orthodox lyrics.

 

[Justin-H.S.]

sure, my issue is metal is naturally aggressive, loud, and distorted, so it’d be easier to road rage to that despite Orthodox lyrics.

When I'm turning wrenches or hot-rodding metal or country/rockabilly (real country, not that modern crap) is ideal, while if I'm reading in my chair I prefer some J.S. Bach. Know what I mean?

 

[Phronema]

Fr. I heard that we shouldn't listen to liturgical music outside of liturgy, or at least not in a profane manner.

That's a little disheartening for me. How do we define "in a profane manner"?

I very much enjoy chant, and really listen to it about 90% of the time when I'm listening to music, and for a number of reasons. First the subject of much of the secular music tends to be about subjects that don't much interest me anymore at my age, and/or plays directly into the passions. Secondly, as a chanter it's helpful for me to hear the chant, and train my ear to recognize the distinct differences for each mode. That of course wouldn't constitute a profane manner, but how do we define this?

Is this to say we shouldn't be listening to liturgical chant at a moment when we're most prone to sin? That becomes very subjective, and could be *all* the time if we really think about it? Am I over-thinking this?

 

[Justin-H.S.]

That's a little disheartening for me. How do we define "in a profane manner"?

I very much enjoy chant, and really listen to it about 90% of the time when I'm listening to music, and for a number of reasons. First the subject of much of the secular music tends to be about subjects that don't much interest me anymore at my age, and/or plays directly into the passions. Secondly, as a chanter it's helpful for me to hear the chant, and train my ear to recognize the distinct differences for each mode. That of course wouldn't constitute a profane manner, but how do we define this?

Is this to say we shouldn't be listening to liturgical chant at a moment when we're most prone to sin? That becomes very subjective, and could be *all* the time if we really think about it? Am I over-thinking this?

I heard in passing by another priest that liturgical music should not be profaned by everyday activities, so yeah. Like you, I listened to chant outside of church, but when I heard that it made me think twice about it.

I don't know. Icons shouldn't be used in a profane manner either, but I have icons in my vehicles (Eastern European car insurance) so I'm not sure what the verdict is. It may have to do with what is in our heart.

 

[ArmyMatt]

When I'm turning wrenches or hot-rodding metal or country/rockabilly (real country, not that modern crap) is ideal, while if I'm reading in my chair I prefer some J.S. Bach. Know what I mean?

I do, I just think personally that Orthodox lyrics with metal guitars sends some mixed signals.

 

[Justin-H.S.]

I do, I just think personally that Orthodox lyrics with metal guitars sends some mixed signals.

True. OTOH, baptizing metal is pretty....metal.

 

[ArmyMatt]

True. OTOH, baptizing metal is pretty....metal.

if it’s edifying, sure is.

 

[Phronema]

I heard in passing by another priest that liturgical music should not be profaned by everyday activities, so yeah. Like you, I listened to chant outside of church, but when I heard that it made me think twice about it.

I don't know. Icons shouldn't be used in a profane manner either, but I have icons in my vehicles (Eastern European car insurance) so I'm not sure what the verdict is. It may have to do with what is in our heart.

I think you're spot on. If I'm driving in heavy traffic, and already in a foul mood when I know I'm likely to get upset at others it's not a good time to be listening to chant. On the other hand if I'm at home, and practicing chant for an upcoming service, or praying in my prayer corner, or reading The Holy Scriptures it may be a more appropriate time to listen to it outside of The Divine Liturgy.

I also see, and understand the wisdom associated with what the priest is saying. Listening to it all the time could serve to diminish what it is, and what it's intended to do. Again on the other hand it's certainly been instrumental in my spiritual journey in Orthodoxy up to this point, and I've been blessed to have access to it outside of The Divine Liturgy. I believe it to be very useful for keeping our minds on the Kingdom, the Final Judgement, and the virtues as well. Further I believe it helpful to advocate for ceaseless prayer as St. Paul instructs us to do.

Overall, I think there's certainly wisdom in what the priest has instructed us to do. It's something I'll bring up to both Father, and our Protopsalti for their take on it. Thank you for bringing it up.

Edit: My apologies for the OT posts.

 

[Andrei D]

Fr. I heard that we shouldn't listen to liturgical music outside of liturgy, or at least not in a profane manner. The same way priestly vestments shouldn't be worn outside of liturgy/liturgical acts. I used to and still do listen to chant in my truck/car from time to time, but I thought maybe I'm profaning the sacred music if I were to fall into road rage or something.

I've never really heard that said... Hey, there are psaltic groups that give CONCERTS and sell records and stuff... and they are ordained and have blessing of heirarchy to do so. The Patriarchal Cathedral puts out videos and recordinds of chanting. Many holy monasteries put out records. Every priest, chanter, and many laymen listen to chanting... This is too hyperdox for me.

On the other hand, I did hear many times that we're not supposed to ever read certain prayers that are reserved to clergy, for instance the ones surrounding the epiclesis or the ones against the adversary - I don't know the English word - of St. Basil the Great. That sounds legitimate to me, and I can't really explain where the line is drawn *shrug*

 

[Justin-H.S.]

I've never really heard that said... Hey, there are psaltic groups that give CONCERTS and sell records and stuff... and they are ordained and have blessing of heirarchy to do so. The Patriarchal Cathedral puts out videos and recordinds of chanting. Many holy monasteries put out records. Every priest, chanter, and many laymen listen to chanting... This is too hyperdox for me.

On the other hand, I did hear many times that we're not supposed to ever read certain prayers that are reserved to clergy, for instance the ones surrounding the epiclesis or the ones against the adversary - I don't know the English word - of St. Basil the Great. That sounds legitimate to me, and I can't really explain where the line is drawn *shrug*

Same here. I've got a couple recorded chant albums from iTunes, and although it is pretty based to cruise around the avenues blasting Byzantine chant from a lowrider, it somehow doesn't seem right to me given the context of the situation. I don't know.

 

[Justin-H.S.]

I think you're spot on. If I'm driving in heavy traffic, and already in a foul mood when I know I'm likely to get upset at others it's not a good time to be listening to chant. On the other hand if I'm at home, and practicing chant for an upcoming service, or praying in my prayer corner, or reading The Holy Scriptures it may be a more appropriate time to listen to it outside of The Divine Liturgy.

I also see, and understand the wisdom associated with what the priest is saying. Listening to it all the time could serve to diminish what it is, and what it's intended to do. Again on the other hand it's certainly been instrumental in my spiritual journey in Orthodoxy up to this point, and I've been blessed to have access to it outside of The Divine Liturgy. I believe it to be very useful for keeping our minds on the Kingdom, the Final Judgement, and the virtues as well. Further I believe it helpful to advocate for ceaseless prayer as St. Paul instructs us to do.

Overall, I think there's certainly wisdom in what the priest has instructed us to do. It's something I'll bring up to both Father, and our Protopsalti for their take on it. Thank you for bringing it up.

Edit: My apologies for the OT posts.

No problem, I didn't think it was OT.

I will also ask a visiting priest (Chancellor of my metropolis) Fr. George what he thinks about profaning the sacred music with everyday activities. I listen to chant in the same context as you do (practicing chant) even though I'm not a chanter (my wife is). And yes, I do feel the positive effects of listening to chant on the way to the store as it does help keep my mind on God during a profane activity such as driving to the supermarket (or even better, on the way to church).

I think there needs to be some discernment on our part as to when and where it is appropriate.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

It’s either Iron Maiden or Dio. Anything else is wannabe

 

[Chesterton]

sure, my issue is metal is naturally aggressive, loud, and distorted, so it’d be easier to road rage to that despite Orthodox lyrics.

I played guitar in punk bands when I was young and a long time ago I was chatting with a former bandmate who was getting married and going to have a kid. I asked if he would be supportive if his kid ever wanted to be a punk musician as we were. He said he would be and asked the same question of me, if I were to have a kid. I said I wouldn't want that, and I was trying explain why although I think I lacked the orthodox understanding to do so. The distorted guitar was what I loved, although even when I was doing it I felt something was wrong about it. After all, what is a "distortion"? It's not unlike a perversion, a pollution, or a "missing the mark". Having said that, I still like hard music. It's like if a person really likes chocolate doughnuts, I don't think they just decide one day not to like them, lol. But maybe a better person than me could decide not to like it, I don't know.

I thought of this thread this morning after hearing Rejoice O Bethany, one of my top favorite hymns. I always thought that hymn could make a really good metal or hard rock cover. I'm not saying that should be done, I'm just sayin'.

 

[Chesterton]

sure, my issue is metal is naturally aggressive, loud, and distorted, so it’d be easier to road rage to that despite Orthodox lyrics.

Wow, your post also brought back an old memory. Once in high school I was driving with some friends to a party where it was pre-arranged that I was going to fight this guy. On the way, to help pump myself up for the fight I deliberately chose to listen to the hardest, fastest, most thrashiest metal we had in the car, which in those days was, um, Foreigner. On 8-track tape, if I recall.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I played guitar in punk bands when I was young and a long time ago I was chatting with a former bandmate who was getting married and going to have a kid. I asked if he would be supportive if his kid ever wanted to be a punk musician as we were. He said he would be and asked the same question of me, if I were to have a kid. I said I wouldn't want that, and I was trying explain why although I think I lacked the orthodox understanding to do so. The distorted guitar was what I loved, although even when I was doing it I felt something was wrong about it. After all, what is a "distortion"? It's not unlike a perversion, a pollution, or a "missing the mark". Having said that, I still like hard music. It's like if a person really likes chocolate doughnuts, I don't think they just decide one day not to like them, lol. But maybe a better person than me could decide not to like it, I don't know.

I thought of this thread this morning after hearing Rejoice O Bethany, one of my top favorite hymns. I always thought that hymn could make a really good metal or hard rock cover. I'm not saying that should be done, I'm just sayin'.

I also still enjoy hard rock and punk on occasion, just to me it sounds odd with Christian lyrics.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Wow, your post also brought back an old memory. Once in high school I was driving with some friends to a party where it was pre-arranged that I was going to fight this guy. On the way, to help pump myself up for the fight I deliberately chose to listen to the hardest, fastest, most thrashiest metal we had in the car, which in those days was, um, Foreigner. On 8-track tape, if I recall.

I did the same before my wrestling matches.

 

[ArmyMatt]

double post