Against the Jews

[prodromos]

I'm curious to know why the Jews fast on Tuesday and Thursday. I know why we fast on Wednesday and Friday, but I don't think I ever picked up the reason behind the Jewish tradition.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Can we please stop the bizarre use of Yeshua in place of Christ or Jesus or Our Lord? We're not Aramaic in here.

Bizzare? It is His Name!

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

This is one of the most irritating trends. Next thing there'll be someone here typing G_d instead of God, cos, y'know...YHWH clearly hates vowels.

The Judaizers lost at the Apostolic Council in Jerusalem, and again later during the Quartodeciman controversy. Catch up.

Using G_d is not about vowels. Rabbinic Jews use it as a sign of respect for His Name. Your funny, the Apostolic Council was held BY JEWS. Polycarp and St. John were Judaizers according to your understanding of it...

There were 2 camps, both being Jewish believers in Yeshua (Jesus for all of you that want or need to use His anglicized Greek name). Jewish believers were at the head of The Church. The question was not that Jewish believers should or should not remain Jews, but should GENTILES have to become Jews to be part of The Body of believers. Some said yes, others said no.

 

[GregConstantine]

" Rabbinic Jews use it as a sign of respect for His Name."

So what? We're not rabbinic Jews. What they do or not do has absolutely no bearing on us. We are the true Israel of God, not them. They have rejected Jesus as the Messiah and are not longer heirs to the promise. They are in the same category as any one who is not a baptized chrismated Orthodox Christian.

And yes, Jesus is His name. We Speak English!!!!

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

" Rabbinic Jews use it as a sign of respect for His Name."

So what? We're not rabbinic Jews. What they do or not do has absolutely no bearing on us.

Once again Greg, you have not been following the thread and attacking blindly when you see the word Jew LOL! I replied to the assertion that was made about vowels and the use of G_d when writing his Name by Rabbinic Jews. I never said or implied WE were Rabbinic Jews...please pay attention.

 

[GregConstantine]

Oh I'm paying attention, it's you who isn't. You habitually use Jewish and Hebrew terminology, ergo, going to what the rabbinic jews do as a source of authority. Yes, you were telling us a nice factoid that most of us already know about, but you were using it as a justification for your continuing use of Jewish/Hebraic terminology on an English speaking page.

So what do you think my point is?

 

[GregConstantine]

BTW, I'm not the only one saying this. Did you respond in the way you responded to me to Gurney and Rumeister?

 

[rusmeister]

Bizzare? It is His Name!

Not in English convention, it isn't. See my last post and please respect the English convention of Orthodox Christians. Not a single Archdiocese prints the name of Jesus Christ as "Yeshua" in the English language. This is an English language forum. We don't in the least mind being told that in the Aramaic convention, it IS His name, and we do appreciate being so enlightened. But we do not appreciate having Aramaic convention imposed on our language in disregard of our language and its established conventions.

 

[rusmeister]

Once again Greg, you have not been following the thread and attacking blindly when you see the word Jew LOL! I replied to the assertion that was made about vowels and the use of G_d when writing his Name by Rabbinic Jews. I never said or implied WE were Rabbinic Jews...please pay attention.

Look, Yeshua,
There are two different issues. The one I see that may concern you - an unreasonable hatred of Jews, as opposed to a reasonable rejection of modern Judaic teaching and customs - is not really an issue here. We all agree that it is wrong to hate ANYBODY; you won't find anyone here either advocating hate of Jews as people or as interpreting Chrysostom as teaching us to do so.

The other one is what people are racting to that you invite by insisting on using Aramaic convention, not in any Aramaic context, but simply in rejecting English expression of things of the Faith. Implying that the way we should be talking about Jesus is not as desirable as saying Yeshua because Aramaic was the language Jesus spoke is kind of like Muslims saying that the Koran is only authentic in the original Arabic. And it is the imposition of multiculturalism where it has not been invited and is not appropriate. If you are speaking Aramaic to Aramaic speakers, by all means speak Aramaic! It would be equally showoffish in such a context to use English words in an Aramaic context. In short, you should respect your audience if you want them to pay attention to your thoughts, and insisting on Aramaic forms with us is not respect.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Oh I'm paying attention, it's you who isn't. You habitually use Jewish and Hebrew terminology, ergo, going to what the rabbinic jews do as a source of authority. Yes, you were telling us a nice factoid that most of us already know about, but you were using it as a justification for your continuing use of Jewish/Hebraic terminology on an English speaking page.

So what do you think my point is?

LOL. I didn't know the Rabbinic Jewish authorities named Yeshua, made all the moedim (Feasts), etc. I learn sooo much from you Greg. I guess you think they wrote the OT too?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Look, Yeshua,
There are two different issues. The one I see that may concern you - an unreasonable hatred of Jews, as opposed to a reasonable rejection of modern Judaic teaching and customs - is not really an issue here. We all agree that it is wrong to hate ANYBODY; you won't find anyone here either advocating hate of Jews as people or as interpreting Chrysostom as teaching us to do so.

The other one is what people are racting to that you invite by insisting on using Aramaic convention, not in any Aramaic context, but simply in rejecting English expression of things of the Faith. Implying that the way we should be talking about Jesus is not as desirable as saying Yeshua because Aramaic was the language Jesus spoke is kind of like Muslims saying that the Koran is only authentic in the original Arabic. And it is the imposition of multiculturalism where it has not been invited and is not appropriate. If you are speaking Aramaic to Aramaic speakers, by all means speak Aramaic! It would be equally showoffish in such a context to use English words in an Aramaic context. In short, you should respect your audience if you want them to pay attention to your thoughts, and insisting on Aramaic forms with us is not respect.

no, I just prefer to use the Name His mother Miriam gave Him when He was born In Judea...if you can only pay attention if I use Jesus, you will be missing out ;-)

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Not in English convention, it isn't. See my last post and please respect the English convention of Orthodox Christians. Not a single Archdiocese prints the name of Jesus Christ as "Yeshua" in the English language. This is an English language forum. We don't in the least mind being told that in the Aramaic convention, it IS His name, and we do appreciate being so enlightened. But we do not appreciate having Aramaic convention imposed on our language in disregard of our language and its established conventions.

You mean ENGLISH Orthodox, right? At Pascha I seem to remember hearing Christ IS Risen in 100 or more languages ;-) Just messing with you I prefer Yeshua, sorry.

 

[Victory of the Cross]

Can we please stop the bizarre use of Yeshua in place of Christ or Jesus or Our Lord? We're not Aramaic in here.

Can you stop giving Jesus a JEWISH man, a gentile name? his name was Yeshua, if anything calling him a gentile name is bizarre.

 

[Shieldmaiden4Christ]

I'm just curious about the love affair for Judaism that's being demonstrated.

 

[Shieldmaiden4Christ]

Can you stop giving Jesus a JEWISH man, a gentile name? his name was Yeshua, if anything calling him a gentile name is bizarre.

Actually, it's not. "Jesus" is just a form of "Joshua" with is just a form of "Yeshua". They're linguistically the same thing. However, we're on an English-speaking forum, so it's incredibly weird to use the term "Yeshua". It's not disrespectful in any way to use a different form of "Yeshua"; after all, Jesus is the savior of both Jews and Gentiles. Anyway, why are you on an Orthodox forum trying to tell Orthodox what to do?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Actually, it's not. "Jesus" is just a form of "Joshua" with is just a form of "Yeshua". They're linguistically the same thing. However, we're on an English-speaking forum, so it's incredibly weird to use the term "Yeshua". It's not disrespectful in any way to use a different form of "Yeshua"; after all, Jesus is the savior of both Jews and Gentiles. Anyway, why are you on an Orthodox forum trying to tell Orthodox what to do?

Yeshua is actually a phonetic ENGLISH rendering of His actual Name. If I wrote it in Aramaic or Hebrew, I would not use English letters. "Jesus" is the English rendering of the Greek Iesous which is a rendering of the Hebrew. Iesous means nothing in Hebrew or Aramaic but Yeshua does.

 

[Shieldmaiden4Christ]

Yeshua is actually a phonetic ENGLISH rendering of His actual Name. If I wrote it in Aramaic or Hebrew, I would not use English letters. "Jesus" is the English rendering of the Greek Iesous which is a rendering of the Hebrew. Iesous means nothing in Hebrew or Aramaic but Yeshua does.

You do realize that that doesn't necessarily contradict anything I said, right? Yeshua is not the phonetic rendering, but is the transliteration from Hebrew and Aramaic characters to Western alphabets. The point, which you missed, is that they're all forms of the same name, names with the same meaning; however, Jesus is the established English rendering of the name, so English speakers insisting on Yeshua just screams pretension and condescension to me.

 

[Shieldmaiden4Christ]

And for what it's worth, you contradict yourself. If Iesous is a Greek transliteration of the Hebrew, then it absolutely means something in Hebrew -- it's just how the Greeks were capable of saying it and explaining it with their particular set of phonemes. I'm illiterate of Hebrew, but I wouldn't be surprised if the "Sh" sound in Hebrew is the letter "shin", which in turn would be transliterated to the "s" sound in Greek (which is the letter "sigma").

 

[GregConstantine]

"LOL. I didn't know the Rabbinic Jewish authorities named Yeshua, made all the moedim (Feasts), etc. I learn sooo much from you Greg. I guess you think they wrote the OT too?"

I don't know, perhaps if you wrote in English we'll understand you better and we'll be able to answer your questions.

 

[Shieldmaiden4Christ]

I still don't understand the point of using Hebraic or Aramaic terms, when, for instance the majority of religious Jews who spoke these languages outright rejected Christ as Messiah. And those Jews who typically accepted him as the Messiah were mostly Hellenized Jews of the diaspora (who spoke Greek and not Hebrew or Aramaic), which precipitated the conversion of Greek-speaking Gentiles, and then eventually this spread to the rest of the Roman Empire. I mean, we base a great deal of our OT on the construction of the Septuagint, which was specifically translated for Hellenized Jews who didn't understand Hebrew. But apparently it's disrespectful not to use his Aramaic name, because using it makes us more reverent!!