Afterlife Alternatives

[spockrates]

So I'm wondering how we know what awaits us in the afterlife. It seems there are only a few alternatives, one or more of which might be real and others merely imagined:

• Heaven or Heavens or Paradise
• Hell or Outer Darkness
• Purgatory
• Reincarnation
• Soul Sleep
• No existence at all

Did I miss any? What evidence (biblical or otherwise) supports one or more of these views?

 

[Adstar]

Yes you missed eternal life on the New earth in the great city the New Jerusalem with the LORD Jesus Christ..

As a Christian, I do not believe Purgatory or Reincarnation or No existence at all are possabilities at all..

 

[spockrates]

Yes you missed eternal life on the New earth in the great city the New Jerusalem with the LORD Jesus Christ..

As a Christian, I do not believe Purgatory or Reincarnation or No existence at all are possabilities at all..

@Adstar: Would that be soul sleep followed by resurrection (or recreation)?

 

[Adstar]

@Adstar: Would that be soul sleep followed by resurrection (or recreation)?

Both Soul sleep and Souls in heaven and souls in hell can be supported using the Bible.. The simple conclusion is that some sleep.. Some go to heave.. and some go to hell.. But you will find most religious people will settle oe only one or two options but not three..

 

[spockrates]

Both Soul sleep and Souls in heaven and souls in hell can be supported using the Bible.. The simple conclusion is that some sleep.. Some go to heave.. and some go to hell.. But you will find most religious people will settle oe only one or two options but not three..

Thank you.

 

[Adstar]

This is speculation.. But i feel that the ones who go to heaven are people who have been executed for their belief in Jesus.. We read in the Book of Revelation about Saints being in Heaven with God and being told to wait a while longer untill God avenges their blood upon the people on the earth..

Revelation 6: KJV
8 "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. {9} And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: {10} And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? {11} And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

 

[tampasteve]

Rebirth. Technically Buddhism teaches rebirth as apposed to reincarnation of Hinduism, etc. Your karmic tendencies follow you to your next birth, but not a soul like in Christianity, etc. There is a lot of writings and "scriptures" in Buddhism for rebirth, but if one does not ascribe to Buddhism then they are of little value. Many Buddhists do not believe in it either. The Buddha taught to throw out what does not work for anyone, so if belief in rebirth does not work for you, does not help you get towards enlightenment, then it is of no value and should be discarded.

 

[SkyWriting]

So I'm wondering how we know what awaits us in the afterlife. It seems there are only a few alternatives, one or more of which might be real and others merely imagined:

• Heaven or Heavens or Paradise
• Hell or Outer Darkness
• Purgatory
• Reincarnation
• Soul Sleep
• No existence at all

Did I miss any? What evidence (biblical or otherwise) supports one or more of these views?

The Biblical evidence is that Jesus and His followers all seemed to be sane.
You could say He was a liar, but you'd need to back up that conclusion,
somehow.

 

[spockrates]

Rebirth. Technically Buddhism teaches rebirth as apposed to reincarnation of Hinduism, etc. Your karmic tendencies follow you to your next birth, but not a soul like in Christianity, etc. There is a lot of writings and "scriptures" in Buddhism for rebirth, but if one does not ascribe to Buddhism then they are of little value. Many Buddhists do not believe in it either. The Buddha taught to throw out what does not work for anyone, so if belief in rebirth does not work for you, does not help you get towards enlightenment, then it is of no value and should be discarded.

Thank you, tampasteve. I admit I'm intrigued by the thought of rebirth or reincarnation, as I'm a fan of the Father of Philosophy Socrates, and I wonder why he was so certain of its truth. I have a question: Since Buddhists don't believe in a soul, then what exactly is the thing they believe is reborn? What is the thing that possesses its karma?

 

[spockrates]

This is speculation.. But i feel that the ones who go to heaven are people who have been executed for their belief in Jesus.. We read in the Book of Revelation about Saints being in Heaven with God and being told to wait a while longer untill God avenges their blood upon the people on the earth..

Revelation 6: KJV
8 "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. {9} And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: {10} And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? {11} And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

Perhaps you're right, though I'd need more information to be sure I'm not confusing correlation with causation.

 

[spockrates]

The Biblical evidence is that Jesus and His followers all seemed to be sane.
You could say He was a liar, but you'd need to back up that conclusion,
somehow.

Yeah, maybe, SkyWriting. But how do you know Jesus rejected the idea of, say reincarnation?

 

[grasping the after wind]

@Adstar: Would that be soul sleep followed by resurrection (or recreation)?

Not necessarily. One does not have to accept Time as a property of physical existence in the way we are wont to think of it or the idea that there is a separation between soul and body. If our concept of time is in error then instantaneous resurrection is not out of the question.

Yeah, maybe. But how do you know Jesus rejected the idea of, say reincarnation?

Jesus never mentioned reincarnation but the idea of reincarnation seems a bit out of place and frankly useless when one looks at what Jesus is quoted as saying in the Bible and what Christian thought has been for the past two thousand years and even what Hebrew thought was prior to that time . What purpose would reincarnation serve in the Christian universe? I cannot think of one.

 

[tampasteve]

Thank you, tampasteve. I admit I'm intrigued by the thought of rebirth or reincarnation, as I'm a fan of the Father of Philosophy Socrates, and I wonder why he was so certain of its truth. I have a question: Since Buddhists don't believe in a soul, then what exactly is the thing they believe is reborn? What is the thing that possesses its karma?

In brief, the way I understand it, is that a soul is generally thought of and taught as something eternal, something that cannot be destroyed or go away. We die, it goes to Heaven, or Hell, or somewhere else, maybe reincarnated into another earthly creature. In Buddhism it is taught that our consciousness is made of matter, it is not eternal but can move into another earthly creature dictated by kamma/karma, or more likely, a different higher or lower dimension.

Many teachers say it is worthless to focus on how/why/what a soul or consciousness is. The goal is to cultivate kamma/karma and either achieve enlightenment here or be rebirthed into somewhere where we can cultivate kamma/karma easier. The goal is to be good in this life, to cultivate good kamma/karma, and this is consistent with living a good, Christian life as well. Maybe rebirth is real, but so long as I live a good life in accordance with Christ I will also be accumulating good kamma/karma. I believe this is one of the reasons the Dalai Lama said "I sometimes feel a little hesitant about giving Buddhist teachings in the West, because I think that it is better and safer for people to stay within their own religious tradition."

 

[SkyWriting]

Yeah, maybe, SkyWriting. But how do you know Jesus rejected the idea of, say reincarnation?

After rising from the dead, it would have been a perfect teaching moment.
He didn't mention it to the hundreds who saw Him.

27Then Jesus said to Thomas, “Put your finger here and look at My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Stop doubting and believe.” 28Thomas replied, “My Lord and my God!” 29Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen, and yet have believed.”

 

[Rajni]

Reincarnation is the one afterlife scenario that I know of which science has actually attempted to look into.

Probably the most compelling are the accounts of children recalling lives they otherwise couldn't possibly have been aware of.

Here's one interesting article: The Science of Reincarnation: UVA psychiatrist Jim Tucker investigates children’s claims of past lives

 

[spockrates]

In brief, the way I understand it, is that a soul is generally thought of and taught as something eternal, something that cannot be destroyed or go away. We die, it goes to Heaven, or Hell, or somewhere else, maybe reincarnated into another earthly creature. In Buddhism it is taught that our consciousness is made of matter, it is not eternal but can move into another earthly creature dictated by kamma/karma, or more likely, a different higher or lower dimension.

Many teachers say it is worthless to focus on how/why/what a soul or consciousness is. The goal is to cultivate kamma/karma and either achieve enlightenment here or be rebirthed into somewhere where we can cultivate kamma/karma easier. The goal is to be good in this life, to cultivate good kamma/karma, and this is consistent with living a good, Christian life as well. Maybe rebirth is real, but so long as I live a good life in accordance with Christ I will also be accumulating good kamma/karma. I believe this is one of the reasons the Dalai Lama said "I sometimes feel a little hesitant about giving Buddhist teachings in the West, because I think that it is better and safer for people to stay within their own religious tradition."

Fascinating! So if consciousness is contained in matter, then the question is: How does the consciousness of the deceased pass on the the consciousness of the newly born person or creature? I suppose one possibility is light. Since it is made of particles as well as waves, and a particle is matter, light itself might be composed of consciousness! So anywhere where light is, a consciousness might be passed on, I suppose. What are your thoughts?

 

[spockrates]

After rising from the dead, it would have been a perfect teaching moment.
He didn't mention it to the hundreds who saw Him.

27Then Jesus said to Thomas, “Put your finger here and look at My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Stop doubting and believe.” 28Thomas replied, “My Lord and my God!” 29Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen, and yet have believed.”

Well, I suppose one might say Jesus had nothing but good Karma, and so one would not expect him to return as a dog!

But seriously, Jesus is unique in that he is God, or an Avatar, or some other divine being. One wouldn't expect the effects of the afterlife to apply to him. He is the cause of such effects, not the receiver of them. Therefore, I think we need another scripture to prove reincarnation isn't biblical.

 

[spockrates]

Reincarnation is the one afterlife scenario that I know of which science has actually attempted to look into.

Probably the most compelling are the accounts of children recalling lives they otherwise couldn't possibly have been aware of.

Here's one interesting article: The Science of Reincarnation: UVA psychiatrist Jim Tucker investigates children’s claims of past lives

Thanks, RayJeena. The thing about children is they have excellent imaginations. Add to that access to the Internet, and there's not much to limit the lives they can imagine living. So I'll keep that in mind when I consider the evidence at the link you provided.

 

[tampasteve]

Loosely speaking, we could call the Christian belief of bodily passing away and becoming as a spiritual being in the heavenly realm or hell realm based on Christ and living as He deemed (as is mostly taught in Christianity) a parallel belief to rebirth. Buddhism teaches that one can be reborn into hell realms or heavenly/angelic/"god" realms too. So, technically (IMO) these beliefs are not opposed to each other in this thinking.

 

[spockrates]

Not necessarily. One does not have to accept Time as a property of physical existence in the way we are wont to think of it or the idea that there is a separation between soul and body. If our concept of time is in error then instantaneous resurrection is not out of the question.

Jesus never mentioned reincarnation but the idea of reincarnation seems a bit out of place and frankly useless when one looks at what Jesus is quoted as saying in the Bible and what Christian thought has been for the past two thousand years and even what Hebrew thought was prior to that time . What purpose would reincarnation serve in the Christian universe? I cannot think of one.

Why useless?