• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.
  7. There has been an addition to the announcement regarding unacceptable nick names. The phrase "Let's go Brandon" actually stands for a profanity and will be seen as a violation of the profanity rule in the future.

After many years, I think I finally understand why I disagree

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by TheWhat?, Oct 19, 2021.

  1. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +7,424
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    The difference is that the word mysticism is tied with the new age. Yes, I know it has been used by Christians to not mean that. But today: Many people will think of the word mysticism in the negative way. This is not the case with the term “Bible alone.” There is no negative or sinful association with that term. In fact, the concept of Bible Alone is taught in the Bible itself. All of the Bible is Scripture. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 says all Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, instruction in righteousness, etc. so that the man of God may be perfect unto all good works (Note: I am paraphrasing the verse here from memory). The point I wanted to get at is that the Bible is sufficient alone to teach doctrine and instruction in righteousness to make the man of God perfect unto all good works. So if the Bible is sufficient to meet this goal in making us perfect unto all good works, there is nothing outside of the Bible that is needed. Yes, God and His people are included in that. But by our study of God’s Word, and applying it to our lives, Scripture includes these things. God and His people abide by God’s Word. His Word is our guidance for all matters of faith and practice so that the man of God can be perfect unto all good works. I don’t need to seek out another holy book or find some kind of other teachings by men or by some other church to be perfect unto all good works. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 gives me the sufficient answer that I seek. All Scripture is already profitable enough to be perfect unto all good works because it is inspired by God for that purpose.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
  2. 2PhiloVoid

    2PhiloVoid Eccentric Eclectic Existentialist at work! Supporter

    +7,799
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others
    You definitely missed the point of my first post to you in this thread. But we can drop this since I'd rather not "get into it" with you over this or that tangential issue.

    Nope. Not even close! Not even.

    Actually, His Word (or an all too plain of reading of it in English) apparently isn't enough since there's so many folks who claim to be Christain all haggling over its various meanings and its applications ...
     
  3. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +7,424
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Yes, we are all well aware that Christians today use these words. But these are select groups of Christians and not all Christians who use these words. You still cannot escape the problem, though. The little kid or Joe your neighbor down the street who thinks these words have to do with the new age or the occult. In their mind, that is the stigma they have about these words. Such a stigma cannot be changed. We all know Scripture says God is not the author of confusion. So why confuse others? That’s my point. Why use words that will give people the wrong impression about us as believers? Do we really want unbelievers to think we are new age mystics because of our preference to use fancy words?

    Do you realize that there is a lady on YouTube who claims to be a Christian witch?
    Could not Joe your neighbor down the street be confused with your using the word mystic after watching this lady’s YouTube video?
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
  4. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +7,424
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    So why did you not like the negative book review then?

    Are you saying there is not a way for us to easily know the Bible on our own with God?
     
  5. TheWhat?

    TheWhat? Ate all the treats

    +504
    United States
    Christian
    In Relationship
    The words are part of the religion and culture of over a billion christians. There is no problem. Granted, in certain corners of the U.S. where protestantism has a larger following, especially among those of more iconoclastic leanings, I can see why one might have the impression that things outside of that bubble are unusual. But, rest assured, the rest of the christian world is not a protestant majority.
     
  6. The Liturgist

    The Liturgist Traditional Liturgical Christian Supporter

    +1,907
    United States
    Generic Orthodox Christian
    Celibate
    I really liked his performance as a physicist in the 1959 nuclear apocalypse film On the Beach, opposite Gregory Peck, Ava Gardner and Anthony Perkins.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  7. 2PhiloVoid

    2PhiloVoid Eccentric Eclectic Existentialist at work! Supporter

    +7,799
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others
    Basically, it's because Gilley's evaluation was way too short, barely qualifying (not qualifying, really) as a robustly academic type of peer-reviewed book review that we'd find in a solid, professional journal article.

    Secondly, Gilley apparently isn't familiar with Corduan's thought (although, I am), but proceeds (again, all too briefly) to make it sound like Corduan is pandering to Christian Mysticism when actually (for those of us who have read the entire book and whether we actually agree with it or not) Corduan wasn't pandering but attempting the application of analytic philosophy and evaluating the idea, coming down in a mediated position that isn't one of pandering. (I mean, Corduan is a Protestant Evangelical, not Catholic or Orthodox.)

    However, one of Corduan's ongoing projects as a Christian Philosopher and academic has been to offer some aid in enabling various kinds of Christians to at least better understand each other and as to how we each come at the Christian faith through our various historical traditions among the nations of the world. I'm not sure that Gilley understood this (or cared to do so, really) before reading and reviewing Corduan's book.

    As for formal mysticism itself, I don't seek after it. I'm an Existentialist, a whole other problem.

    And for me, it comes down to Hermeneutics, which applies to all human communication and texts that we produce, even the Bible.

    Yes, I've always said, and have only been saying for 10 years, EXACTLY this ... ! But I don't require other Christians to agree with me, and I don't seek to "attack" error whenever I may think I find it. Hence, the reason I wrote what I wrote up in post #10 above (before you came on to this thread). :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
  8. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

    +15,786
    Christian
    Married
    That's a matter resolved by education in Christian history.
     
  9. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +7,424
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    You said, I quote, “Gilley… proceeds… to make it sound like Corduan is pandering to Christian Mysticism when actually (for those of us who have read the entire book and whether we actually agree with it or not) Corduan wasn't pandering but attempting the application of analytic philosophy and evaluating the idea, coming down in a mediated position that isn't one of pandering.”

    Well, Winfried, comes right out and says the purpose of his book in his own description of it.

    [​IMG]

    Source:
    Win Corduan's Mysticism

    Winfried’s very first line is…. “In this book I am reclaiming the term mysticism for evangelical Christianity.”

    So you either did not agree with Winfried or you did not understand the purpose of his book.
    For you said you are not about the same purpose of trying to resurrect that word. So why defend the book when that is what the book is about?

    In other words, from my perspective, your not making any sense, my friend.

    According to a Google search:

    Existentialists believe that we're born without purpose into a world that makes no sense — but each person has the ability to create his or her own sense of meaning and peace.

    Source:
    Existentialism For Dummies Cheat Sheet - dummies

    Is this what you believe?

    I believe some aspects of God’s Word are plain and easy to understand. Other parts take a lot of comparing Scripture with Scripture and prayer to find the answer.

    For example: I did not know right away that NT believers are to follow the New Covenant (or New Testament) commands primarily and they are not under the 613 Laws of Moses (even though certain moral laws may have been repeated or carried over). I did not know right away about how the early Jewish apostles did not have a full knowledge on the one baptism mentioned to the Ephesians believers. I also did not know in the beginning that Paul primarily referred to the 613 Laws of Moses when he used to refer to words like “the Law” or “works.” Paul was not referring to the commands that come from Jesus and His followers. So yes, I understand, God’s Word is not always easy to understand, but I believe it is not impossible or extremely difficult. The difficulty is only in the user or reader. If a believer is looking to justify outside beliefs that do not exist in the Bible, then I believe it is more difficult for them to understand the Word in many places.

    In any event, may God bless you (even if we may disagree on certain things).
     
  10. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +7,424
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    The same can be said for the word “gay,” (which was once understood as meaning happy), but I don’t think it is wise to try and re-educate people by trying to bring that word as meaning happy alone back into society. Trouble will only arise by doing so. Also, what is there to gain, as well? Mysticism will always have that bag stigma and always confuse others. Why even associate with it anymore? Is it not more beneficial to simply not use that word and focus on what the Bible teaches? Does not the word mystic conjure up negative meanings for you? It does for me. The first thing I think of when I seen that lady on YouTube who claims to be a Christian witch is that she is a Christian mystic. That describes clearly what she is. So then we have to explain the differences of between her and others? Sounds too complicated to me. Believers are to be holy and separate from the world.
     
  11. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    +7,424
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Well, I am not exactly Protestant. So I am not for defending all of what Protestant’s believe although I do agree with certain beliefs held by them that many Christians share (like the Trinity, loving God, and others, we walk by faith, etc.). I am strongly against the Protestant view of Soteriology. For they make salvation too one dimensional. I believe we are initially saved by God’s grace, and we make that our foundation. However, I believe salvation continues in the Sanctification Process. We are to enter the Sanctification Process by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to live a holy and sanctified life by God’s Word (the Bible). In my walk with God by His Word, I have not received any indication by His Word that we are to look for teachings within another holy book, or church (separate from Scripture, i.e. the Bible). There is also no evidence that proves that any outside teachings by some church are holy and divine like the Bible is. The Bible itself teaches in 2 Timothy 3:16-17 that ALL Scripture is profitable for doctrine, and instruction in righteousness so that the man of God may be perfect unto all good works. So if I can be perfect unto all good works solely by Scripture, then what need do I have for any outside teachings beyond the Bible on spiritual matters of the faith? Nothing, of course.
     
  12. 2PhiloVoid

    2PhiloVoid Eccentric Eclectic Existentialist at work! Supporter

    +7,799
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others
    Really? wow.

    I hate to have to say this, but from my vantage point you've just shot yourself in the foot. The most unfortunate thing is I don't think you realize you've shot yourself in the foot through a faulty demonstration of both hermeneutics and logic, and you have thereby undermined your own credibility on this topic.

    ...... But, that's ok I guess since I'm beginning to see a pattern in your thinking that displays some apparent personal cognitive challenges, so if this is the case with you, then I won't press the issue. I'll just let it rest here being that you're a fellow brother in Christ and you apparently need an extra bit of grace and understanding.

    Nope, not exactly, although I will admit that I think we all have difficulties in trying to make sense of the world around us. And despite that, this is where my existentialism diverges from the truncated and all too short definition of it that you think you've found on an "Existentialism For Dummies Cheat Sheet." :rolleyes:

    So, let's just drop this tangent since I don't think it's copacetic to continue on with it when the OP has another direction of inquiry and discussion.

    ok.

    Alright, thank you! The Lord bless you and keep you as well, brother! :cool:
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
  13. Fervent

    Fervent Well-Known Member

    +850
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Gotta love when the goal posts move mid-drive. I've never made such an association, nor do I believe that is what most people associate with the word. This seems like something that is peculiar to you and perhaps a certain subculure. Occult practices can fall under mysticism, but that's true for broad categories in general.
     
  14. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

    +7,411
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Others
    Nobody else in the Bible had a copy of the scriptures to guide them.
     
  15. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

    +7,411
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Others
    Because only a tiny percent of Christians actually trust Jesus.
     
Loading...