After 2020, an Era of Global Harmony — or a New Dark Age?

[Matt5]

After 2020, an Era of Global Harmony — or a New Dark Age?

It’s easy to imagine how historians might someday see 2020 as the onset of a new dark age.

...

For good or ill, we’ll look back on 2020 as a hinge of history — a year that sent shockwaves through the established order and thus altered the world’s long-term arc. Crises this fundamental can push an international system toward destruction or regeneration — but they can hardly fail to leave a lasting mark.

"Stability is destabilizing," economist Hyman Minsky.

Some shocks that show how things are going to get worse before they get better:

1. 2001 - 9/11 - Failed thinking about security.
2. 2008 - Financial crash - Failed thinking about economics.
3. 2019 - COVID-19 - Failed thinking about globalization and China.

Screwed up ideas and decisions get to grow during the good times. Eventually they become too great and we end up with a revolution, depression, civil war and/or big war. History shows that the US needs about 60 to 80 years after a big crisis to reach another one. We are now 75 years since the last big crisis - right in the danger zone.

The US today looks an awful lot like Daniel 7:3. A weakened and unstable US with a new religion - the religion of equality. Then look what comes next in verse 4: Russia devours much flesh.

Vision of Four Beasts (Daniel 7)

3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, each different from the other. 4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle’s wings. I watched till its wings were plucked off; and it was lifted up from the earth and made to stand on two feet like a man, and a man’s heart was given to it.

5 “And suddenly another beast, a second, like a bear. It was raised up on one side, and had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth. And they said thus to it: ‘Arise, devour much flesh!’

But that all happened in the past. Maybe. But maybe not. Besides, the reality of today doesn't change either way. The US is still in trouble.

Christians need to be ready to survive a nuclear war. Who's with me on this?

Anyone? Crickets. Just one person? More crickets.

Did you know that the US is vulnerable to military defeat by an alliance of Russia and China? A surprise nuclear strike against the US would take out about 2/3rds of its nuclear arsenal, thanks to Bush and Obama. And it just so happens that Russia and China are in an informal military alliance, so they can lie about it.

How would such a war start? Did you ever wonder why Isaiah 17, Damascus gets nuked, is even in the Bible? I did. Who cares about Damascus? Maybe its a sign of something bigger.

The intersection of two civilizations is the most dangerous area. One possibility is Israel vs its neighbors. This suggests Isaiah 17 - Israel nukes Damascus. According to the Russian nuclear doctrine, if a Russian alley (Syria) gets nuked then Russia can nuke back. But the target moves to the US, and China helps too. That suggests Isaiah 18.

 

[Bobber]

History shows that the US needs about 60 to 80 years after a big crisis to reach another one. We are now 75 years since the last big crisis - right in the danger zone.

Maybe you can be more specific. What are the crisis you're referring to? Granted there's always been crisis periodically but can one really define a set pattern? Not sure about that.

Christians need to be ready to survive a nuclear war. Who's with me on this?

Anyone? Crickets. Just one person? More crickets.

Could be wars and such wars you speak of. Jesus said there would be wars and rumours of war. I think it goes like this just like the time you might think for sure a war will take place it doesn't and when you never dreamed such would take place it does. If you're assessing there will be war by looking at things you're seeing with your natural mind keep in mind you could be wrong. And what does that mean to you preparing to survive a nuclear war? I'm sure you've read from some that after surviving a nuclear war some might wish they didn't.

According to the Russian nuclear doctrine, if a Russian alley (Syria) gets nuked then Russia can nuke back. But the target moves to the US, and China helps too. That suggests Isaiah 18

Perhaps. But you seem to underestimate America's ability to respond. I think they would respond and the results for R + C would be devastating. I'd forget about what you're thinking about 2/3 rds of US arsenal gone. The average citizen may have no idea of what they have. That could be called classified information.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

Did you know that the US is vulnerable to military defeat by an alliance of Russia and China? A surprise nuclear strike against the US would take out about 2/3rds of its nuclear arsenal, thanks to Bush and Obama.

Thx Obama.

For details how do China and Russia get off surprise nuclear attack without US response ?

 

[Matt5]

“After China violated an international treaty on Hong Kong, the world shouldn’t trust it to honor any other treaty.”

China’s takedown of Hong Kong is part of a strategy of world domination China’s takedown of Hong Kong is part of a strategy of world domination

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

Of course China can’t be trusted. Nor Russia or US. Nations - especially great powers - famously have no friends they have interests.

Henry Temple, 3rd Viscount Palmerston - Wikiquote

 

[Matt5]

Thx Obama.

For details how do China and Russia get off surprise nuclear attack without US response ?

I didn't say there would be no US response. Only that 2/3rds of the nukes would be taken out.

How could they do it? Submarines.

The Real Nuclear Balance

"As noted earlier, North Korea can destroy about two-thirds of the U.S. Triad by a surprise attack destroying just five targets—the three U.S. nuclear bomber bases and 2 SSBN bases. North Korea probably has Super-EMP weapons (generating 100 kilovolts/meter or more) which could enable it to damage missile, command and control electronics, and so paralyze U.S. ICBMs (which during the Cold War were EMP hardened to 50 kvs/meter).[xvi]"

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

I didn't say there would be no US response. Only that 2/3rds of the nukes would be taken out.

How could they do it? Submarines.

Well, supposing that worked out which is a big suppose. US is left with around 1300 nukes out of the around 4000 nuke stockpile.

Think North Korea can handle 1300 nukes ? Think Russia or China are prepared to lose hundreds of cities ?

Not to mention it would also be a declaration of war on NATO which has other nuclear powers on it.

 

[Matt5]

Well, supposing that worked out which is a big suppose. US is left with around 1300 nukes out of the around 4000 nuke stockpile.

Think North Korea can handle 1300 nukes ? Think Russia or China are prepared to lose hundreds of cities ?

Not to mention it would also be a declaration of war on NATO which has other nuclear powers on it.

Under the New START treaty, deployed warheads max out at 1,550. Additionally, delivery vehicles are strictly limited:

Deployed missile and bombers: 700
Launchers (missile tubes and bombers): 800

What about all those non-deployed nuclear warheads? Over 4,300 are not operational and are awaiting retirement, or were used for spare parts. If any of them actually work, how do you deliver them?

Losing 2/3rds of your nuclear warheads means you have a little over 500 left. I guess that means 250 for Russia and 250 for China. The key to deterrence is having enough nukes left over so you can wait for the millions of Russians and Chinese to come out of their underground shelters. Currently, the US will have nothing left.

 

[Redwingfan9]

After 2020, an Era of Global Harmony — or a New Dark Age?



"Stability is destabilizing," economist Hyman Minsky.

Some shocks that show how things are going to get worse before they get better:

1. 2001 - 9/11 - Failed thinking about security.
2. 2008 - Financial crash - Failed thinking about economics.
3. 2019 - COVID-19 - Failed thinking about globalization and China.

Screwed up ideas and decisions get to grow during the good times. Eventually they become too great and we end up with a revolution, depression, civil war and/or big war. History shows that the US needs about 60 to 80 years after a big crisis to reach another one. We are now 75 years since the last big crisis - right in the danger zone.

The US today looks an awful lot like Daniel 7:3. A weakened and unstable US with a new religion - the religion of equality. Then look what comes next in verse 4: Russia devours much flesh.

Vision of Four Beasts (Daniel 7)

3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, each different from the other. 4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle’s wings. I watched till its wings were plucked off; and it was lifted up from the earth and made to stand on two feet like a man, and a man’s heart was given to it.

5 “And suddenly another beast, a second, like a bear. It was raised up on one side, and had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth. And they said thus to it: ‘Arise, devour much flesh!’

But that all happened in the past. Maybe. But maybe not. Besides, the reality of today doesn't change either way. The US is still in trouble.

Christians need to be ready to survive a nuclear war. Who's with me on this?

Anyone? Crickets. Just one person? More crickets.

Did you know that the US is vulnerable to military defeat by an alliance of Russia and China? A surprise nuclear strike against the US would take out about 2/3rds of its nuclear arsenal, thanks to Bush and Obama. And it just so happens that Russia and China are in an informal military alliance, so they can lie about it.

How would such a war start? Did you ever wonder why Isaiah 17, Damascus gets nuked, is even in the Bible? I did. Who cares about Damascus? Maybe its a sign of something bigger.

The intersection of two civilizations is the most dangerous area. One possibility is Israel vs its neighbors. This suggests Isaiah 17 - Israel nukes Damascus. According to the Russian nuclear doctrine, if a Russian alley (Syria) gets nuked then Russia can nuke back. But the target moves to the US, and China helps too. That suggests Isaiah 18.

I wouldn't read Biblical prophecy into any of this. That's a fools errand that Christians have been screwing up for nearly 2000 years.

That said, the post-wwii order is crumbling. The United States, desperate to keep tbat order, has increased its debt from $3.2 trillion in 1990 to $28 trillion in 2020. Bush and Obama both doubled the debt in their 8 years in office, Trump was on his way to the same before being voted out. It's not like Biden is fiscally responsible, the debt will continue to skyrocket.

Meanwhile the US can no longer keep its interests in order in the Pacific. Not only can the country not afford to put the money into maintaining the Pacific order, it doesn't have the manpower or desire to either. China has 9 figures worth of expendable men due to their one child policy and preference for boys. Any war between the US and China will result in a Chinese win, be it in the form of a military victory or by bankrupting the US. This is identical to Britain and Germany in 1914. Sure Germany lost the second war but the two wars bankrupted Britain and by 1970 West Germany, a third the size of 1914 Germany, was the top economy in Europe.

Meanwhile the US continues to elect people to the White House and Congress who have no clue what they're doing. Biden is more likely to get us into a war than Trump as he has a long history of supporting military action. While politicians and intellectuals whine about trivial matters such as racism and sexism, the country is falling apart morally and financially. Freedom no longer means free from government intrusion, it means mass government intrusion forcing people to support ideas that government prefers. Meanwhile the debt continues to increase and no one cares so long as some mentally ill man is allowed to go by Suzanne and use made up pronouns and not only allowed but everyone is forced to go along with his mentally ill delusions. The future is not good.

 

[grasping the after wind]

What would be the point of China or Russia bombing the US? We are currently in the process of committing cultural and economic suicide. Why would they waste their time money and resources attacking a rival that is self destructing? Besides that we soon will have a President very friendly with China and unlikely to put any roadblocks in the way of the advancement of Chinese interests.

 

[Albion]

While politicians and intellectuals whine about trivial matters such as racism and sexism, the country is falling apart morally and financially. Freedom no longer means free from government intrusion, it means mass government intrusion forcing people to support ideas that government prefers.

True.

And that opinion piece from Bloomberg which started the thread off is a good example. It moans that there is a retreat from "democracy" going on...and then illustrates its point by referring to decisions made by the people which happen not to be in harmony with the will of the elites.

 

[Redwingfan9]

True.

And that opinion piece from Bloomberg which started the thread off is a good example. It moans that there is a retreat from "democracy" going on...and then illustrates its point by referring to decisions made by the people which happen not to be in harmony with the will of the elites.

Part of the problem is using the term democracy. We don't live in a democracy, we live in a republic.

Beyond that, the elites are largely focused on using perversion and trivial issues to consolidate their own power. Their positions are all couched in terms of the people and democracy but it's really all about subbordibating the masses.

One wonders why it is that the majority of American socialists are highly educated and typically upper middle class white people. These are the people real socialists murder when they take power. American socialists aren't typically working class. In fact, American socialists show a disdain and hatred for working class people that shows us what they're really all about. American socialists don't believe in socialism, they believe that they should control people.

 

[Albion]

Part of the problem is using the term democracy. We don't live in a democracy, we live in a republic.

Okay, but that's a view of the matter that you and I would agree with. It isn't what Bloomberg has in mind when it's going on about "democracy."

Beyond that, the elites are largely focused on using perversion and trivial issues to consolidate their own power. Their positions are all couched in terms of the people and democracy but it's really all about subbordibating the masses.

Indeed, but it's only been fairly recently (IMHO) that they have taken to saying it out loud.

One wonders why it is that the majority of American socialists are highly educated and typically upper middle class white people. These are the people real socialists murder when they take power.

Well, the answer is that Socialism works perfectly for the power brokers who own the great corporations. In a free society, there is competition. But in the society that they prefer, the government doesn't bother with that or want any of it.

These people, the money boys behind the Democratic Party's political candidates and campaigns, expect that they will have de facto monopolies if Socialism triumphs and will not have to compete.

That the revolution sooner or later devours the "useful idiots" -- if that is what you are thinking -- is of course a well-known principle.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

Losing 2/3rds of your nuclear warheads means you have a little over 500 left. I guess that means 250 for Russia and 250 for China. The key to deterrence is having enough nukes left over so you can wait for the millions of Russians and Chinese to come out of their underground shelters. Currently, the US will have nothing left.

What in earth are you talking about ?

Key deterrence is not how you are going to re-nuke the survivors of nuclear exchange.

Deterrence is the threat of turning the opposing side’s cities to radioactive scrapyards.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

American socialists don't believe in socialism, they believe that they should control people.

Good thing Trump is letting people decide themselves what they should do instead of huge disinformation campaign calculated to inflame and enrage the less educated people who just repeat his Tweets.

You can try to twist it whichever way but more educated people are those less likely to get controlled by some demagogue offering easy solutions to difficult problems and won’t perhaps trust amulets against astral sex practicing demons over vaccines.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Good thing Trump is letting people decide themselves what they should do instead of huge disinformation campaign calculated to inflame and enrage the less educated people who just repeat his Tweets.

You can try to twist it whichever way but more educated people are those less likely to get controlled by some demagogue offering easy solutions to difficult problems and won’t perhaps trust amulets against astral sex practicing demons over vaccines.

As far as i know Trump has never had the ability to make anyone decide anything against their will. Hige disinformation campaign? you mean his tweets? So a guy gives his opinion and that is a huge disinformation campaign but the media spreads disinformation as if it were factual and that's journalism

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

As far as i know Trump has never had the ability to make anyone decide anything against their will.

Yes, not like there are any people in US government, military or anywhere where he has influence that is afraid to lose their jobs if they cross him or don’t endorse his lies. What do you call that if not making people decide something “against their will” ?

Think the Republicans embrace him because he is just such a lovable guy ? Or they are just afraid to be exposed the cretins they are if they don’t do foam at mouth impressions about elections while knowing nothing will come out of it expect perhaps not getting on Trump’s petty grievances list. Despicable.

And the President tweeting conspiracy theories that undermine democratic elections is “just a guy giving his opinions” ?

He is the President - for a couple more weeks anyway - and should act like one instead of copying Alex Jones.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

COVID-19 showed China how they can defeat the US and the world against economic aggression which Trump hurled at them.

They now know how easy it is to use biological warfare stealthily and bring the world to it's economic demise.

I expect another pandemic in the future that will make COVID-19 look like the sniffles.

 

[Redwingfan9]

Okay, but that's a view of the matter that you and I would agree with. It isn't what Bloomberg has in mind when it's going on about "democracy."


Indeed, but it's only been fairly recently (IMHO) that they have taken to saying it out loud.


Well, the answer is that Socialism works perfectly for the power brokers who own the great corporations. In a free society, there is competition. But in the society that they prefer, the government doesn't bother with that or want any of it.

These people, the money boys behind the Democratic Party's political candidates and campaigns, expect that they will have de facto monopolies if Socialism triumphs and will not have to compete.

That the revolution sooner or later devours the "useful idiots" -- if that is what you are thinking -- is of course a well-known principle.

The people espousing socialism are actually fascists, at least the ones who are in control of things. The kids are just dupes who are ashamed of their race and wealth. Obama isn't a socialist, he's a fascist. Obamacare is a fascist piece of legislation.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Yes, not like there are any people in US government, military or anywhere where he has influence that is afraid to lose their jobs if they cross him or don’t endorse his lies. What do you call that if not making people decide something “against their will” ?

So basically in the exact same position that other government officials have been in, in the past when they thought that they would have to endorse what they considered lies by a President or lose their jobs? I call that people prioritizing their cushy high paying jobs over their integrity. I can't sympathize with them at all. And I don't have nearly enough imagination to feel empathy for them. My guess is that they could probably get lucrative enough positions with either the Democratic party, some lobbying group or a cable news network under those circumstance and be no worse off financially or in terms of notoriety.