Afros, Locks, & Kosher Hair: What Hair Styles were Hebrews For Historically?

[Gxg (G²)]

Why is this thread all of a sudden 'asenine'?

IMHO, it seems more akin to a quick reaction rather than reasonable response.

Generally, when people get called out for something they may've felt strongly about/been quick to accuse without basis (as was the case when accusation was made over an icon without any real evidence on their part, despite being addressed elsewhere)...or (potentially) they happen to see anything from anyone they personally don't like at any given moment, anything is subject to a negative label. Many times, anyone else can bring up the same issues that another already did and whereas negatives were thrown out previously, either people remained silent...or a positive was shared. For the negative emotional filter was not present .

It's why I noted how odd it is that other members had times their icon didn't seem to show up (due to technical issues) and there was nothing close to the reaction of "Guess what, so and so isn't showing....we gotta bring up the SoP about fellowship!"...and as the SoP was immediately quoted by the poster, to me it's a bit ironic that the SoP was dismissed in the next breath when the individal chose to say a discussion others found interesting is suddenly "asenine" (i.e. silly, foolish, etc )---for the SoP already noted the issue of lashon hara (as well as addressing the topic of the post rather than avoiding it) when it stated "No personal attacks, no insulting, talking down to another poster (or any individual not involved with this board), insulting their integrity or their walk with Messiah Yeshua."

As said before, people are free to think what they wish...and if they don't prefer a subject, by all means they can avoid it/not participate. However, going out of one's way to only be able to say a negative or derisive (quick put downs) as if it means something is pointless ( Proverbs 11:12, Ephesians 4:28-30 , James 3:8-10/James 3, etc). Others have often had in-depth discussions in differing fellowships on wondering what the Hebrew people they read about in scripture actually looked like......especially in times where people have often said others in the scriptures could ONLY look the way that they've been in many circles (more discussed in previous talks as seen here).

Discussing what Jewish/Hebrew hair styles may have been historically and what Yeshua either had or would approve of is no more "asenine" than having discussions on Walmart Lolipops, Shavaout and icecream sundays or discussing Matisyahu in his facial hair style , discussing GMOs, discussing the plates of the planet and many other things done in fellowship

Er...is that sort of Eastern Orthodox?

Don't know what Eastern Orthdox really has to do with it or anything related to the OP subject of hair texture, Biblical culture and what was possibly present...but oh well .

good family talk! thanks. mabye yahashua had thick anointed hair? chow

The hair that Yeshua had on his crown must have been full of the power of the Lord Although it's possible that he could easily have had thin hair as well.

 

[Colleen1]

It sure would! Moses was changed after he encountered the presence of the LORD. His face shown and people told him to cover it up (why I have no idea!!). I think other places in the Bible talk bout the countenance in such a way too. Anyways, slightly different topic but I love thinking about it!

Nice. It's worth thinking about.

 

[Colleen1]

Why is this thread all of a sudden 'asenine'?

I was wondering the same thing.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

In discussing hairstyles, I'm sure ethnicity plays a key role in it. Cultures are going to do styles that work with their haircolor and especially hair texture. .

The upper room does come to mind, in regards to what happened with how many Jews of differing ethnicities were all present when the Holy Spirit came down in power:

Acts 2:4
The Holy Spirit Comes at Pentecost

2 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues[a] as the Spirit enabled them.

5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking in his own language. 7 Utterly amazed, they asked: “Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans? 8 Then how is it that each of us hears them in his own native language? 9 Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” 12 Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, “What does this mean?”

​

You had God-fearing Jews from Egypt, Arabic Jews, Libyan Jews, Parthian Jews and so many others all present in one place. How they all seemed vastly different from one another is truly amazing...although it's hard to truly understand the words present without a visualization of what each group may've looked like..and I'm thankful for other places that've sought to aid in the issue of presenting diversity within the Jewish world---as seen in Be'chol Lashon | Advocating for the Growth and Diversity of the Jewish People

Seeing the ways others look all over the world, it reminded me of something another once noted when their friend saw someone from Ethiopia and asked him on his ethnic group....and when the Ethiopian said he was Jewish, the response was "Jews don't look like you!!!"---with the Ethiopian saying back " I thought all Jews looked like us" since his exposure to the Jews of other cultures was as limited as the man who had no idea Jews could look Ethiopian
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[Gxg (G²)]

To be honest, considering culture and ethnicity, I always thought Jesus would have darker brown / black wavy type of curly hair that went to his shoulders. Considering his ethnic origin and that I don't think that razors and buzz cuts were a part of his culture.

With Yeshua, although not certain of his hair type, I definately can see him having a beard. ...as seen in Isaiah 50:6 – "I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting." In this prophetic passage we learn that Jesus not only had a beard, but that it was long enough to be ripped out by those who tortured him to death." How long the beard was, who knows....

There've been really sharp debates on the nature of Jews/Hebrews and beards, many noting that it'd not make sense for Christ to not have a beard since that was something (in their view) that all Hebrews would have been for. However, I don't know how far one could go with that. Even in the pictures from antiquity showing the Hebrews with beards, I wonder if it could be said that all Hebrews had one. With the beard dynamic, I have to remember that there was indeed a cultural aspect to it. When asking the question "What does the Bible say about having facial hair?", one of the main explicit rules concerning facial hair in the Bible is found in Lev. 19:27, which says, ‘You shall not round off the side-growth of your heads nor harm the edges of your beard" (NASB). Lev. 19:26-28 has other laws connected to it, such as not making markings unto in the flesh for the dead...and the cutting of beards is something many commentators have said occurred because God was really commanding His People not to cut or to trim their beards because of grief toward the dead---a pagan practice. They were not to ‘mar’ or destroy their beards. For Pagan reason’s only. Most people read a lot into this as to say we should never trim or cut a beard. Which is incorrect. Others with beards keep their facial hair nicely trim at all times cause it has nothing to do with a pagan practice. Its because they want to look their best and not like a sasquatch. Apart from that, nothing is said in the Bible for or against beards. The only other text that's explicit about beards is Leviticus 21:4-6 , which was in regards to priests not being allowed to shave their beards.

With beards, the best that one can say (IMHO) was that it was really a cultural thing that was valued in the same way that the Afro was valued amongst African Americans. With beards, it was considered a disgrace for an adult man not to have a beard (2 Samuel 10:4-5) within Jewish culture.....and because it was part of Israelite life for a man to have a beard, the Bible has only a few direct references to beards ( 2 Samuel 20:8-10 , Isaiah 7:19-21 , Jeremiah 41:4-6 ). However, many of those mentioned are significant and set precedence for a man having a beard as a big deal. Apart from Yeshua, the Bible refers to the following people as having beards:

Aaron the High Priest – Psalm 133
King David – 1 Samuel 21:13
Ezra the scribe – Ezra 9:3

​

These are all significant people...and for significant people without beards, Joseph comes to mind--as he shaved his in Egypt ( Genesis 41:13-15 ) in regards to cultural assimilation.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Nice. It's worth thinking about.

I agreee When we get to see Him who redeemed us FACE TO FACE (as well as being able to see all of the Biblical heros of the Faith, Hebrews 11), it'll be glorious.

 

[Chaplain David]

Uh, I still see the MJ icon (torah scroll right?)...

I can see it too but it isn't the absolute discriminator of who may post and who may not. If people check out the userpage, about me section it clear states "Messianic" in addition to the other Messianic things that are posted there. God bless and Shabbat Shalom.

http://www.christianforums.com/users/238335/

 

[Colleen1]

With Yeshua, although not certain of his hair type, I definately can see him having a beard. ...as seen in Isaiah 50:6 – "I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting." In this prophetic passage we learn that Jesus not only had a beard, but that it was long enough to be ripped out by those who tortured him to death." How long the beard was, who knows....

There've been really sharp debates on the nature of Jews/Hebrews and beards, many noting that it'd not make sense for Christ to not have a beard since that was something (in their view) that all Hebrews would have been for. However, I don't know how far one could go with that. Even in the pictures from antiquity showing the Hebrews with beards, I wonder if it could be said that all Hebrews had one. With the beard dynamic, I have to remember that there was indeed a cultural aspect to it. When asking the question "What does the Bible say about having facial hair?", one of the main explicit rules concerning facial hair in the Bible is found in Lev. 19:27, which says, ‘You shall not round off the side-growth of your heads nor harm the edges of your beard" (NASB). Lev. 19:26-28 has other laws connected to it, such as not making markings unto in the flesh for the dead...and the cutting of beards is something many commentators have said occurred because God was really commanding His People not to cut or to trim their beards because of grief toward the dead---a pagan practice. They were not to ‘mar’ or destroy their beards. For Pagan reason’s only. Most people read a lot into this as to say we should never trim or cut a beard. Which is incorrect. Others with beards keep their facial hair nicely trim at all times cause it has nothing to do with a pagan practice. Its because they want to look their best and not like a sasquatch. Apart from that, nothing is said in the Bible for or against beards. The only other text that's explicit about beards is Leviticus 21:4-6 , which was in regards to priests not being allowed to shave their beards.

With beards, the best that one can say (IMHO) was that it was really a cultural thing that was valued in the same way that the Afro was valued amongst African Americans. With beards, it was considered a disgrace for an adult man not to have a beard (2 Samuel 10:4-5) within Jewish culture.....and because it was part of Israelite life for a man to have a beard, the Bible has only a few direct references to beards. However, those mentioned are significant and set precedence for a man having a beard as a big deal. Apart from Yeshua, the Bible refers to the following people as having beards:

Aaron the High Priest – Psalm 133
King David – 1 Samuel 21:13
Ezra the scribe – Ezra 9:3

​

These are all significant people...and for significant people without beards, Joseph comes to mind--as he shaved his in Egypt ( Genesis 41:13-15 ) in regards to cultural assimilation.

Yes, I would figure he'd probably have a beard. lol I just didn't think to put the two together for some odd reason. I guess when men think about hair they would naturally think about the beard etc that goes along with that.

 

[Lulav]

Unsubbing. This thread is asinine.

I think I will too, not because I think the subject isn't worth discussing, but when you take the time to respond to the OP and it's completely ignored, why bother? :shrug:

Carry on...........

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I think I will too, not because I think the subject isn't worth discussing, but when you take the time to respond to the OP and it's completely ignored,

Pause...where was it ever the case at ANY point that your response was not responded to, L? For I already responded directly to it...point for point...in #7. As said before (without all details):

As far as the friezes are concerned I don't see any dreadlocks there, it seems to be an interpretation of curly hair. From an artist standpoint to carve 'curls' in stone is a difficult job and this appears to be a stylization of it from the sculptures standpoint.

Here is a Messianic Rabbi of the Cohanim, he looks very much like those depicted before Sennecherub.

It's hard to tell in the picture, but Johnathan has very dark, curly hair.

There've definately been others who have brought up the issue of stylization...although it wasn't to the exclusion of things like dreadlocks since those were present in ancient times and artists could stylize differing hair styles the same many times in order to keep things simple. And as other Jews have had hair styles (other pics apart from the one you brought up) similar to what has been seen in ancient pics, it's more than possible for those styles to be present back in Biblical times.


There were some similar to what the Messianic Rabbi pic you gave (although without the beard):

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Ultimately, as no one was present to see fully what was there, no one can know absolutely.

​

Again, more was said besides that. If you wanted to have a greater response, dialouge would come into the picture where you respond to what was said. Although others had back-and-forth, you only shared the one comment I responded to.

Either one missed that unintentionally (and if so, not a problem) or they chose to ignore what was said when response was given. And if the latter, it is not the case that one has any basis in claiming anyone "ignored" responses. To say your response was "completely ignored" is inaccurate and one can do better.

I have no problem responding to what you said (or say)--and I appreciate the time you took to make the response you did earlier--but I don't see any point in responding if one chooses to avoid response when given.

why bother? :shrug:
Carry on...........

Sigh. When people blame for the things they already did (as in claiming something was ignored when in truth they ignore the response people took time to give), one must wonder how much should be bothered in taking a response seriously. Sincerly, I really don't care to waste time in giving an answer to something if one chooses to be dismissive of that answer and then protest.

Blessings

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Yes, I would figure he'd probably have a beard.


lol

I know some have been of the mindset that Christ possibly did not have a beard, as they feel there is no evidence of such within the NT (more here ).

.

I just didn't think to put the two together for some odd reason. I guess when men think about hair they would naturally think about the beard etc that goes along with that.

Or a goatee...or, in the event one cannot grow a beard, the mustache

 

[Lulav]

I never saw that post eazy, and I looked twice. I think something's seriously wrong with this thread. ******enter twilight zone music here*****

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I never saw that post eazy, and I looked twice. I think something's seriously wrong with this thread.

Arggghh..

Hate glitches, as that has happened before on other threads where people made a posting and it didn't show up. Praying it'd not continue.

******enter twilight zone music here*****

On a side note, thanks for giving the pic of the Messianic Rabbi of the Cohanim you noted ( Messianic Rabbi Jonathan ). Researched him and some of his pics are interesting when comparing them to pictures from antiquity. Again I can definately see some of the early Israelites looking like him:

Jonathan Cahn 2 on It's Supernatural with Sid Roth - Harbinger the Shaking​

 

[Gxg (G²)]

From the palace of Sennacherib, approx. 680 b.c.e.(ref. II Kings 18:13-14):

Here is a Messianic Rabbi of the Cohanim, he looks very much like those depicted before Sennecherub.

It's hard to tell in the picture, but Johnathan has very dark, curly hair.
.

Just came to my mind the other day as I was talking with my brother in Christ, as the minister known as Andraé Crouch (more discussed here), one of the greatest pionerring Jewish R&B /Gospel artists EVER who was in the same great era of the Jesus People Movement with other great Jewish song writers such as Keith Green, also looks akin to the people depicted in the murals.

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[Gxg (G²)]

I'm sure ethnicity plays a key role in it. Cultures are going to do styles that work with their haircolor and especially hair texture. I dont think though when my teenage son says 'If Jesus had long hair, why cant I?' is going to work with me .

The one style I refuse to let my son have (if I'm able to prevent it) is Cornrows. Never was a fan of it.

Having a rattail is one that would come as a close second for styles I wish my kids would never choose to have.

 

[visionary]

There are benefits for men to grow beards... 5 lesser-known benefits of having a beard | Fox News

 

[Hoshiyya]

I don't think the Semitic Hebrews would wear afros or dreadlocks, as (being Semites) they like most people are not physically predisposed to growing it. Depictions of art, especially 2000 yrs old, must be considered carefully. What might appear to us as an Anime sweat-bubble may be an inexplicable tumor to another observer.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I don't think the Semitic Hebrews would wear afros or dreadlocks, as like most people they are not physically predisposed to growing it..

Would disagree strongly - seeing how many Semitic Hebrews today have noted where their hair was already predisposed to the lock style - and to be clear, dreadlocks are something that are developed - not grown. The actual process of locking your hair is based on what your hair texture is - and having locks is a pretty ancient practice which many Semitic Hebrews have noted. In light of the fact that even the Hebrews lived amongst the Egyptians who also utilized locks in hair styles (as noted earlier), it's something that doesn't seem easily avoided.

Depictions of art, especially 2000 yrs old, must be considered carefully. What might appear to us as an Anime sweat-bubble may be an inexplicable tumor to another observer.

Of course art should always be considered - and on the issue, that not only goes for assuming certain styles were present that may not have been...but reading past things (due to biases) within the realm of the obvious when it comes to things we think weren't possible when it actually was well known.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

There are benefits for men to grow beards... 5 lesser-known benefits of having a beard | Fox News

Cool to know and thanks for sharing

 

[Hoshiyya]

Would disagree strongly - seeing how many Semitic Hebrews today have noted where their hair was already predisposed to the lock style - and to be clear, dreadlocks are something that are developed - not grown. The actual process of locking your hair is based on what your hair texture is - and having locks is a pretty ancient practice which many Semitic Hebrews have noted. In light of the fact that even the Hebrews lived amongst the Egyptians who also utilized locks in hair styles (as noted earlier), it's something that doesn't seem easily avoided.

Of course art should always be considered - and on the issue, that not only goes for assuming certain styles were present that may not have been...but reading past things (due to biases) within the realm of the obvious when it comes to things we think weren't possible when it actually was well known.

"their hair was already predisposed to the lock style"

Based on what?
I've never seen any visual evidence of this.

I mentioned dreadlocks so I assume you're referring to that.

Anyway, at the end of the day, this is all about how true Israelites are black, and white Jews are impostors, right ? ;D

WHITE YIDDISH JEWS REPLACED BLACK JESUS WITH WHITE JE-ZEUS WITH BLONDE HAIR (I've never actually seen a blonde Jesus depiction but apparently virulent racists are making blonde Jesuses I don't know.)

I'm sorry I've just seen so much cr*p on issues like this