Advice on Koine Greek reading fluency?

[onetruechurch4]

At this point I have most of the grammar memorized and can read a fair bit of Biblical Greek. But my vocab is still really lacking and I constantly come across words that I don't know. Any tips on improving my vocab?

 

[sfs]

Not really. I just carry around a small NT Greek lexicon (I use a paperback by Trenchard) and keep translating. Anything that sticks, sticks, but I don't worry about it.

 

[archer75]

At this point I have most of the grammar memorized and can read a fair bit of Biblical Greek. But my vocab is still really lacking and I constantly come across words that I don't know. Any tips on improving my vocab?

Get a list of the most common words in the NT. Make flashcards, study 30-50 each week. Keep reviewing them at random times as you study the next group. Keep reading.

 

[icxn]

If you are using a computer I would suggest Logeion

There's a way to add a search link to your browser to lookup words by highlighting and right clicking.

Now let's see how good you are with the following 'alphabet'

Ἀλφάβητος παραινετικὴ πρὸς τοὺς νέους Γενναδίου Σχολαρίου:

Ἄκουσον, υἱέ, πατρικῶν διδαγμάτων·
Βροτὸς πεφυκὼς μὴ πλανῶ ἐν τῷ βίῳ.
Γνώριζε παντὸς αἴτιον Θεὸν μόνον.
Δέχου τὰ συμβαίνοντα συμφέροντά σοι.
Εὔχου σὺ ἀεί, κἂν περιστῶσι πλέον.
Ζήλου τὰ κρείττω καὶ φθόνου παντὸς δίχα.
Ἡ γλῶσσα σιγᾶν τὸ πλέον γινωσκέτω.
Θεοῦ φόβος σε τῶν κακῶν χωριζέτω.
Ἴαμα τὴν παίδευσιν εἰς ἀεὶ κρίνε.
Κράτει γέλωτος, γαστρός, ὀργῆς δὲ πλέον.
Λόγους πόθησον χρημάτων ὑπερτέρους.
Μὴ συμμορφωθῇς ἐν ὁδῷ μετ’ ἀφρόνων.
Νεκρῷ δάκρυσον· μνημόνευε θανάτου.
Ξένους ξένιζε, μὴ Θεοῦ ξένος γένῃ.
Ὅτ’ εὐτυχεῖς, μέμνησο τῆς κοινῆς τύχης.
Πεινῶσι τὸν σὸν ἱλαρῶς ἄρτον δίδου.
Ῥάβδον σεαυτοῦ τὴν συνείδησιν φέρε.
Σαυτῷ γίγνου δίκαιος, εἶτα τοῖς πέλας.
Τὸν μακρὸν ὕπνον ὥσπερ ἐχθρὸν ἐκτρέπου.
Ὕβριν ἅπασαν καὶ λόγον αἰσχρὸν φεῦγε.
Φύλασσε χεῖρας ἁρπαγῆς ὡς αἱμάτων.
Χρηστοὺς τρόπους δίωξον, ἢ σοφοὺς λόγους.
Ψεῦδος μίσησον, τὴν δ’ ἀλήθειαν φίλει.
Ὡς ἂν μετελθὼν οὐ φοβηθήσῃ κρίσιν.

 

[-Luca]

If you are using a computer I would suggest Logeion

There's a way to add a search link to your browser to lookup words by highlighting and right clicking.

Now let's see how good you are with the following 'alphabet'

Ἀλφάβητος παραινετικὴ πρὸς τοὺς νέους Γενναδίου Σχολαρίου:

Ἄκουσον, υἱέ, πατρικῶν διδαγμάτων·
Βροτὸς πεφυκὼς μὴ πλανῶ ἐν τῷ βίῳ.
Γνώριζε παντὸς αἴτιον Θεὸν μόνον.
Δέχου τὰ συμβαίνοντα συμφέροντά σοι.
Εὔχου σὺ ἀεί, κἂν περιστῶσι πλέον.
Ζήλου τὰ κρείττω καὶ φθόνου παντὸς δίχα.
Ἡ γλῶσσα σιγᾶν τὸ πλέον γινωσκέτω.
Θεοῦ φόβος σε τῶν κακῶν χωριζέτω.
Ἴαμα τὴν παίδευσιν εἰς ἀεὶ κρίνε.
Κράτει γέλωτος, γαστρός, ὀργῆς δὲ πλέον.
Λόγους πόθησον χρημάτων ὑπερτέρους.
Μὴ συμμορφωθῇς ἐν ὁδῷ μετ’ ἀφρόνων.
Νεκρῷ δάκρυσον· μνημόνευε θανάτου.
Ξένους ξένιζε, μὴ Θεοῦ ξένος γένῃ.
Ὅτ’ εὐτυχεῖς, μέμνησο τῆς κοινῆς τύχης.
Πεινῶσι τὸν σὸν ἱλαρῶς ἄρτον δίδου.
Ῥάβδον σεαυτοῦ τὴν συνείδησιν φέρε.
Σαυτῷ γίγνου δίκαιος, εἶτα τοῖς πέλας.
Τὸν μακρὸν ὕπνον ὥσπερ ἐχθρὸν ἐκτρέπου.
Ὕβριν ἅπασαν καὶ λόγον αἰσχρὸν φεῦγε.
Φύλασσε χεῖρας ἁρπαγῆς ὡς αἱμάτων.
Χρηστοὺς τρόπους δίωξον, ἢ σοφοὺς λόγους.
Ψεῦδος μίσησον, τὴν δ’ ἀλήθειαν φίλει.
Ὡς ἂν μετελθὼν οὐ φοβηθήσῃ κρίσιν.

That looks so beautiful!

 

[Radagast]

At this point I have most of the grammar memorized and can read a fair bit of Biblical Greek. But my vocab is still really lacking and I constantly come across words that I don't know. Any tips on improving my vocab?

Vocab cards or flash cards, especially ones with pictures, are good (see this Google search). Carry them around everywhere you go.

You also know a lot of Greek vocab without realising you know it -- a good book will explain the connections to related English words.

For example, a "thesaurus" is a treasure-box (in English, a treasure-box of words, but in Koine a box of actual treasure).

 

[mothcorrupteth]

Get a list of the most common words in the NT. Make flashcards, study 30-50 each week. Keep reviewing them at random times as you study the next group. Keep reading.

Bingo. See the following: Vocabulary Frequency List

I've tried a LOT of strategies for learning German vocab, and the only thing that's ever really moved me forward is going point-by-point through a frequency dictionary. For every term, I look up at least five examples of its use in idiomatic phrases. I then make flash cards and practice translating from English to German. And each flash card passes through a Leitner-box system (see the video below).

Another thing that's useful specifically with κοινη is that you can cheat and use Modern Greek learning resources (like Pimsleur!). Greek hasn't developed like English. If you look at the original Anglo-Saxon for Beowulf, it won't make any sense to you as a modern English speaker. But Modern Greek vocabulary is mostly spelled the same way it was 2000 years ago. The main differences are pronunciation, the loss of a dative case, and the replacement of future tense and infinitive forms with modal particles.

 

[Radagast]

Another thing that's useful specifically with κοινη is that you can cheat and use Modern Greek learning resources (like Pimsleur!).

Seems dangerous. Meanings have changed.

 

[mothcorrupteth]

Seems dangerous. Meanings have changed.

Not as much as you'd think. I mean, it's no Icelandic, but one scholar estimated that around 50% of the terms still have the exact same meaning, an additional 40% are recognizable with some thought, and only around 10% are no longer in use. Generally speaking, you need to know 95% of the vocabulary in a passage to comprehend it fluently. But of course, not all terms are used equally. The most frequent terms that occur in the New Testament tend to belong to the 50%, so comprehension-wise, you push very close to that 95% if you're fluent in Modern Greek.

 

[Radagast]

but one scholar estimated that around 50% of the terms still have the exact same meaning

I doubt that very much, having once done my own comparison.

 

[icxn]

1 ΕΝ ἀρχῇ ἐποίησεν ὁ Θεὸς τὸν οὐρανὸν καὶ τὴν γῆν.

1 Στην αρχή εποίησε ο Θεός τον ουρανόν και τη γη.

2 ἡ δὲ γῆ ἦν ἀόρατος καὶ ἀκατασκεύαστος, καὶ σκότος ἐπάνω τῆς ἀβύσσου, καὶ πνεῦμα Θεοῦ ἐπεφέρετο ἐπάνω τοῦ ὕδατος.

2 η δε γη ήταν αόρατος και ακατασκεύαστος, και σκοτάδι επάνω της αβύσσου, και πνεύμα Θεού επιφερόταν επάνω του ύδατος.

The beginning of Genesis in ancient and modern Greek (my rendering). Not that different.

 

[mothcorrupteth]

I doubt that very much, having once done my own comparison.

Hey, I'll be quick to volunteer that I can only carry on a basic conversation in modern Greek. But even I can look in certain parts of the Gospels and have no trouble. And if you don't believe me, ask any Greek Orthodox, not just icxn. That's where I'm getting most of my information.

Different languages change at different rates. It's easy for someone to look at how quickly English, Dutch, and German split away from Gothic and the Scandinavian dialects, or how quickly Classical Latin fragmented into Spanish and Italian and Romanian and French, and assume it works the same way for other language groups. It doesn't. I already mentioned Icelandic, which is basically unchanged from the Middle Ages, mostly because of the island's isolation from the rest of Europe (and more recently, because of government programs to preserve it from immigration). But the Slavic languages are also a prime example. Despite being about as old as the Germanic languages, the Slavic languages have a lot more mutual intelligibility between them. (I've been learning Russian, and I can make out a fair bit of the Liturgy books in the Serbian Orthodox church I go to when I'm in Alabama.) Greek has changed more than that, but not by a whole heck of a lot.

 

[Radagast]

To pick just one example, the Koine ἀγάπη and the modern Greek αγάπη can both be translated as "love," but they have subtly different meanings. The meanings are certainly not identical, and the modern Greek word has sexual overtones that the Koine word lacks.

 

[icxn]

To pick just one example, the Koine ἀγάπη and the modern Greek αγάπη can both be translated as "love," but they have subtly different meanings. The meanings are certainly not identical, and the modern Greek word has sexual overtones that the Koine word lacks.

Most certainly not! Though I'm sure the use of the word in the Song of Songs has some sexual overtones - to some at least. Are you perhaps confusing the word αγάπη with έρως?

 

[Radagast]

Most certainly not! Though I'm sure the use of the word in the Song of Songs has some sexual overtones - to some at least. Are you perhaps confusing the word αγάπη with έρως?

I can't speak to the Song of Songs. Is ἀγάπη used in the LXX?

And what I was saying was that the modern Greek word αγάπη is used in places where a classical Greek writer would probably have used έρως. Like here:

 

[icxn]

I can't speak to the Song of Songs. Is ἀγάπη used in the LXX?

Of course. In lots of places.

And what I was saying was that the modern Greek word αγάπη is used in places where a classical Greek writer would probably have used έρως. Like here:

Singers and poets often use words in unconventional ways, still I don't think Anna - who is Cypriot like me btw - has ... sex on her mind when she uses the word love. I don't.

 

[Radagast]

I don't think Anna - who is Cypriot like me btw - has ... sex on her mind when she uses the word love. I don't.

But I think the song demonstrates that the meaning of αγάπη has broadened to cover some of the territory that used to be occupied by έρως.

 

[mothcorrupteth]

But I think the song demonstrates that the meaning of αγάπη has broadened to cover some of the territory that used to be occupied by έρως.

Well, the bigger problem from a debate standpoint is that you're trying to debunk a qualified generalization with a particular fact (supposing that fact is accurate; icxn sounds more knowledgeable about it than I). One black swan can debunk the statement All swans are white. But it can't debunk the statement Most swans are white, which is analogous to what I'm saying. Generate about 21+ more examples of terms out of a randomized sample of 42 terms from the New Testament, and you'll have yourself a plausible direct refutation. Find a reputable scholar who says he has a different opinion, and you'll have yourself a plausible indirect refutation.

 

[Radagast]

Well, the bigger problem from a debate standpoint is that you're trying to debunk a qualified generalization with a particular fact

No, I was debunking an unqualified generalisation, and pointing out that because some words have changed meaning, modern Greek is an unreliable guide to Koine.

 

[icxn]

No, I was debunking an unqualified generalisation, and pointing out that because some words have changed meaning, modern Greek is an unreliable guide to Koine.

I would very much like to see a list of these words, honestly, along with a correct definition. Equipt with such a list it would be very easy to render even modern Greek a reliable guide to Biblical Greek.

I think the modern generation of Greeks will benefit from it. We 'older' folk had to learn Ancient Greek along with the New. Maybe that is why I find it easy to understand, and not that different.