advice if you please

[Mark_Ward]

Hi
I am in my fifties and have lived a very full life, I am new to faith having finally admitted to myself that my recovery from addiction ( alcohol ) is not something I alone can achieve. Given that I have been given honest advice from close friends on how best undertake my search for a Church where I might belong. As a start I have been visiting local churches in Ottawa, ON, Canada. A United Church of Canada, an Anglican Church and a church which is part of the Christian and Missionary Alliance of Canada ( has US branches as well). My main source of conflict is my political and social views, I am sure this is a familiar issue. For the best part of my adult life I rejected any Church that restricted women, were anti abortion or same sex marriage. Now I appreciate these three issues are very important to people. The dumb things is they are not really that important to me...I used them as an excuse to ignore the good, loving, caring aspects of Churches. Almost like I put blinkers on and stopped myself from going any further. If anyone knows an alcoholic or is one, they will recognise this child like characteristic that is part of our make up. Any excuse to deny is grasped with amazing veracity.

So often the advice is to find a congregation that I enjoy, find a pastor/Minister who speaks a language I understand, find a Church that will help me on my journey. To follow my heart ( the issue with my heart is that it is still raw from being exposed recently to the real me and I am learning to live an honest, caring , productive life). Prior to going into any of the Churches above I would have laid best on the United Church being my preference as I connect their social stances with mine ( or what I thought were mine), however to be honest the Church I have enjoyed the most is the CMA church and I know from their literature and from talking to people at the Church including the pastor that they do have opinions that previously I would have walked away from. So my internal turmoil is that I am not directly affected by the three social issues listed above BUT they were the sticking points in my formative years that I believed then. I don't know what I believe now. I am still trying to work all of this out, part of me feels I am wrong to turn my back on my former ideas, BUT these opinions were those of a drunk who was totally self absorbed and frankly would not have lifted a hand to help anyone unless there was something in it for me. I am not that person anymore. Anyhow, thanks for reading this

If anyone has any advice I would welcome it, please don't quote scripture if possible. I really don't understand it enough to interpret it properly, something I intend to change but that will take time .

 

[Galatea]

The most important thing is to get into a Bible believing church. This means a church that teaches the Bible and not just whatever feel good message the preacher gives to make others feel good about themselves.

What I mean is this, is the sermon a sermon where you come away learning afresh the beauty of Christ, or is it a motivational speech with a few churchy sounding phrases sprinkled on?

If during the sermon, you are not asked to open your Bible to read, and the preacher doesn't talk about the Bible (expository preaching), then it is nothing more than a social club.

You will know if it is a good church or not by your growth or lack thereof.

God bless you, I hope you are able to find a good church.

 

[AvgJoe]

The CMA's statement of faith sounds good~~~> Statement of Faith . Along with what Galatea said, look for a Jesus church, that is a church that preaches Jesus and what He did for us through His death, burial and resurrection.

 

[Mark_Ward]

Thank you both. I have never studied or read the Bible, it simply has not been a part of my life. I would like it to be. I am somewhat daunted on where to start. I have admittedly picked up The Book and tried to read but I so quickly have questions on interpretation that I stop as I have no-one to ask questions to. I don't even know how to pray. I know it all sounds maybe trite and second nature to a lot of you, but this is my reality

 

[Jane_Doe]

There are free classes you can take to help you develop Bible reading habits and come to understand it better. I bet if you ask around a church, they can point you in the right direction.
(Note: any church/person you learn from will give you their understanding of it, which will be different than others. You as you learn to read and you will develop your understanding and can then find a church which teaches what you believe to be True).

 

[Galatea]

Not trite at all. No one knows unless they are taught. I like to listen to Dr. J. Vernon McGee and Thru the Bible. He had a Bible study that took five years going through the Bible. He had a simple, homespun style- but it is obvious that he knew the Bible very well.

If you are interested it is www.thruthebible.org. It is online and downloadeable as an app.

As for praying, simply talk to God like He is your father.

 

[Mark_Ward]

thanks again, great advice

 

[AvgJoe]

Thank you both. I have never studied or read the Bible, it simply has not been a part of my life. I would like it to be. I am somewhat daunted on where to start. I have admittedly picked up The Book and tried to read but I so quickly have questions on interpretation that I stop as I have no-one to ask questions to. I don't even know how to pray. I know it all sounds maybe trite and second nature to a lot of you, but this is my reality

Definitely, not trite at all. A great place to start reading the Bible is the first 4 books of the New Testament; Matthew, Mark, Luke & John, as they give an account of Jesus' life and ministry. And we're here to help you and will try to answer every question you have. As I'm sure you've seen, there are numerous forums/sub-forums on CF where you can ask any question you have. Just remember, CF is a very diverse community of Christians and non-Christians, so you are very likely to get 2, 3, 4+ different answers to the same question, which can make it difficult to know which answer is right.

A few other good Christian resources are:

Got Questions~~~> Bible Questions Answered - On their website, they have answers to over 400,000 questions. Just type a question, phrase or word into their search engine and it will pull up any answers they have on that subject.

Discovery Series~~~> Christian Beliefs | Discovery Series - If you find a topic that interests you, click on it, then click on the 'VIEW PDF' button to bring it up.

Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry~~~> What does it mean to be a Christian? | CARM Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry - There are numerous topics that can be searched or type a word/phrase into their search box.

God bless!

 

[PloverWing]

Given what you've said about your story, I think the CMA church could be a good choice for you. Like you, I have liberal views on feminist and LGBT issues, and I can be a little uncomfortable around those who are more restrictive on these issues. However, these issues are not central to the Christian faith. What is central is the work of Christ, the basic doctrines of the faith (the standard Nicene Creed list), prayer, worship in a supportive Christian community, study of the Bible, and ministering to the needs of people around you. All the denominations you've listed share these things. If you've found the local CMA church to be a community that will support you in your Christian life, then that's probably a good place for you.

From what I know about the CMA, they are a good place to learn about the Bible and the foundational elements of the Christian faith. You may still disagree with them on some social issues. That's okay; no congregation has 100% agreement on everything. Their devotion to God, the Bible, and Christian ministry are strengths, especially if you are new to Bible study.

 

[Mark_Ward]

thanks. The CMA services are

Given what you've said about your story, I think the CMA church could be a good choice for you. Like you, I have liberal views on feminist and LGBT issues, and I can be a little uncomfortable around those who are more restrictive on these issues. However, these issues are not central to the Christian faith. What is central is the work of Christ, the basic doctrines of the faith (the standard Nicene Creed list), prayer, worship in a supportive Christian community, study of the Bible, and ministering to the needs of people around you. All the denominations you've listed share these things. If you've found the local CMA church to be a community that will support you in your Christian life, then that's probably a good place for you.

From what I know about the CMA, they are a good place to learn about the Bible and the foundational elements of the Christian faith. You may still disagree with them on some social issues. That's okay; no congregation has 100% agreement on everything. Their devotion to God, the Bible, and Christian ministry are strengths, especially if you are new to Bible study.

actually I find the CMA services very informative, often funny , but I always leave having learned something. The pastor ( who is a temporary one has a great teaching style that I really appreciate) Also the congregation is mostly younger than me and very enthusiastic about fellowship and make me very welcome. The other two I have found to be less so. I really do value the advice I am getting here. Thanks again

 

[Albion]

I am still trying to work all of this out, part of me feels I am wrong to turn my back on my former ideas, BUT these opinions were those of a drunk who was totally self absorbed and frankly would not have lifted a hand to help anyone unless there was something in it for me. I am not that person anymore. Anyhow, thanks for reading this

If anyone has any advice I would welcome it, please don't quote scripture if possible. I really don't understand it enough to interpret it properly, something I intend to change but that will take time .

Mark, I have the feeling that you should just sit down with the pastors of each of the several churches you're considering and lay all your cards on the table. There's no reason to hesitate since those views are commonplace and you really want a little guidance. I'm sure that, in short order, you'll either feel reassured or, if not that, out of place.

 

[Big Drew]

Thank you both. I have never studied or read the Bible, it simply has not been a part of my life. I would like it to be. I am somewhat daunted on where to start. I have admittedly picked up The Book and tried to read but I so quickly have questions on interpretation that I stop as I have no-one to ask questions to. I don't even know how to pray. I know it all sounds maybe trite and second nature to a lot of you, but this is my reality

I had a similar dilemma when I was first born again...I spoke to a pastor about it and he recommended that I start with John's Gospel, and go from there...he recommended following chain references in the Bible and things like this...this was to lay the foundation of the deity of Christ. Just a suggestion, and as others have mentioned there are many great helps on the internet, as well as books to buy that can help you get into bible study...

As for your first question on what church is right for you: Personally, I've visited numerous churches over the years...the first thing I look for is if the pastor's message is biblically based. The next is how am I, as a newcomer, received by the congregation...I've walked into quite a few churches over the years and immediately felt like an intruder, and if you experience this then obviously the church is not teaching on the love of Christ, because if it were you would be welcomed with open arms. Next, do I like the style of worship...this is more of a personal preference thing...some prefer a traditional worship style, while other a more contemporary one...that part is up to you, but I do believe it's important, because we go to church to praise and worship God, and to gather a deeper understanding of what the Bible teaches, to fellowship with likeminded believers...if we're uncomfortable then we'll be distracted and not be giving our full attention to Him. Lastly, if all of this criteria is met I do some research on the church/denomination to make sure their doctrine is sound, if they support charities I believe in, etc...As a new believer with limited Bible knowledge it will be hard to judge if their doctrine is sound though. Ultimately, you'll know when you find your home...it's not as drawn out a process as I've made it seem...ask the Holy Spirit to guide you, He will.

I would suggest when you find some place you feel like you fit that you go for at least a month before you make any commitment...possibly more...this gives you time to learn about the church, get a good idea of what the pastor teaches, get to know the congregation. The last church we were attending before the one we're at now, we went for almost a year before realizing that it just wasn't right for us.

 

[Mark_Ward]

I wanted to add a note to this to thank all for the sage advice

I am sticking with the CMA church for the time being. I find the sermons touch and educate me. Also I took to heart words from a fellow poster who mentioned not having to agree 100% with the congregation or indeed the opinion of the Church. I like their outreach , I like their enthusiasm. I also like the fact that I am doing more outside of Sunday mornings that helps me on my path. I have started volunteering a t a homeless shelter...those few hours do as much for me as any hour spent in a Church

Thanks
Mark

 

[AvgJoe]

I have started volunteering a t a homeless shelter...those few hours do as much for me as any hour spent in a Church.

Amen to that! Reminds me of James 1:27 (Amplified Version),

27) Pure and unblemished religion [as it is expressed in outward acts] in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit and look after the fatherless and the widows in their distress, and to keep oneself uncontaminated by the [secular] world.
​

and of Jesus' 2nd greatest commandment in Matthew 22:39 (Amplified Version),

39) The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself [that is, unselfishly seek the best or higher good for others].’​

 

[63iam]

Hi
I am in my fifties and have lived a very full life, I am new to faith having finally admitted to myself that my recovery from addiction ( alcohol ) is not something I alone can achieve. Given that I have been given honest advice from close friends on how best undertake my search for a Church where I might belong. As a start I have been visiting local churches in Ottawa, ON, Canada. A United Church of Canada, an Anglican Church and a church which is part of the Christian and Missionary Alliance of Canada ( has US branches as well). My main source of conflict is my political and social views, I am sure this is a familiar issue. For the best part of my adult life I rejected any Church that restricted women, were anti abortion or same sex marriage. Now I appreciate these three issues are very important to people. The dumb things is they are not really that important to me...I used them as an excuse to ignore the good, loving, caring aspects of Churches. Almost like I put blinkers on and stopped myself from going any further. If anyone knows an alcoholic or is one, they will recognise this child like characteristic that is part of our make up. Any excuse to deny is grasped with amazing veracity.

So often the advice is to find a congregation that I enjoy, find a pastor/Minister who speaks a language I understand, find a Church that will help me on my journey. To follow my heart ( the issue with my heart is that it is still raw from being exposed recently to the real me and I am learning to live an honest, caring , productive life). Prior to going into any of the Churches above I would have laid best on the United Church being my preference as I connect their social stances with mine ( or what I thought were mine), however to be honest the Church I have enjoyed the most is the CMA church and I know from their literature and from talking to people at the Church including the pastor that they do have opinions that previously I would have walked away from. So my internal turmoil is that I am not directly affected by the three social issues listed above BUT they were the sticking points in my formative years that I believed then. I don't know what I believe now. I am still trying to work all of this out, part of me feels I am wrong to turn my back on my former ideas, BUT these opinions were those of a drunk who was totally self absorbed and frankly would not have lifted a hand to help anyone unless there was something in it for me. I am not that person anymore. Anyhow, thanks for reading this

If anyone has any advice I would welcome it, please don't quote scripture if possible. I really don't understand it enough to interpret it properly, something I intend to change but that will take time .

 

[chevyontheriver]

Hi
I am in my fifties and have lived a very full life, I am new to faith having finally admitted to myself that my recovery from addiction ( alcohol ) is not something I alone can achieve.
...
My main source of conflict is my political and social views, I am sure this is a familiar issue. For the best part of my adult life I rejected any Church that restricted women, were anti abortion or same sex marriage. Now I appreciate these three issues are very important to people. The dumb things is they are not really that important to me...I used them as an excuse to ignore the good, loving, caring aspects of Churches. Almost like I put blinkers on and stopped myself from going any further.
...
So my internal turmoil is that I am not directly affected by the three social issues listed above BUT they were the sticking points in my formative years that I believed then.
...
If anyone has any advice I would welcome it, please don't quote scripture if possible. I really don't understand it enough to interpret it properly, something I intend to change but that will take time .

I'd say you need a church that has an understanding of alcoholism and addiction, both on a local and practical level, and in how that fits with their overall theology and spirituality. Not every congregation will have that even if the denomination might have that in their theology and spirituality.

I come from a Catholic perspective. But I have no experience myself with addiction. I do know of a Catholic group that does, called Calix, and they are all over the USA and Canada. Consider finding one of those groups and then a parish that works well with them. Calix works well with AA and is sort of an adjunct to AA. Even if the Catholic thing is too much for you, it might be that Calix could be of assistance in some way.

You said you were turned off in the past with how a church would address issues of women, abortion, and homosexuality. But now those objections have essentially been reversed. If you are now looking for a place on a different basis, you might consider again a Catholic option. The Catholic Church will not be ordaining women, will not be supporting abortion, and will not be marrying two people of the same sex. That said, there are women who have been recognized as 'Doctors of the Church', which is to say that they are recognized for the distinctive voice they have provided in teaching. Catholic women are not required to keep silent and wear a veil. They can teach at seminaries and advise popes.

On abortion, Catholics have been in the forefront of opposition to that, but also in the forefront to providing alternatives to abortion. It's not a position of hating the woman who has had an abortion. Groups like Rachel's Vineyard have promoted healing after abortion. I'm sure Rachel's Vineyard involves Protestants too in their work, so I'm not trying to make it exclusive at all.

As to homosexuality, the Catholic position is firm but understanding. We don't see it as a sin to just have same sex attractions. In some places such people are condemned just for having inclinations. Catholic groups such as Courage work with people not to 'pray the gay away' but to live in chastity with who you are.

We have a firm position on these things but it's not a harsh position. Some individual Catholics may differ, but that's always been the case. Some will be overly 'tolerant' and some will be overly 'harsh'. But Catholic teaching is based on an anthropology that understands the human condition pretty well. They actually understand addiction pretty well because of that same anthropology. Not every congregation equally, not every priest equally, but overall pretty well. So check out Calix and see where that leads you.

 

[Dither]

Hi Mark,

My advice would be to learn the Westminster Confession of Faith Shorter Catechism and maybe attend an OPC church.

Orthodox Presbyterian Church

I personally believe that the churches have been deceived regarding the true nature of our world, please investigate Flat Earth and Geocentric Heliocentric positions.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Hi Mark,

My advice would be to learn the Westminster Confession of Faith Shorter Catechism and maybe attend an OPC church.

Orthodox Presbyterian Church

I personally believe that the churches have been deceived regarding the true nature of our world, please investigate Flat Earth and Geocentric Heliocentric positions.

Do most OPC people believe in a flat earth?

 

[Dither]

Do most OPC people believe in a flat earth?

No, in fact hardly anyone in any church does.

I just recomended a church with good doctrine IMO.

There is a deception coming to the churches (and is already here) and it pays to understand the truth at this time, all denominations are in danger for they have been deceived, please research flat earth and ask God to help with this, it is important.