Adultry

[G0D.is.L0VE]

Got a friend in a tough situation and I'm unsure how to approach her situation...

She's married, and her husband beats and cheats on her.

She also cheats but falls in love with another man, and he's also married.

Her father is a pastor who tells her she has to stay with her husband and pray for him to change because divorce is not acceptable. And if they divorce she cannot re marry until her husband is deceased....

I know this is true, but does this mean she basically has no hope at all to experience love and marriage again until her husband passes away?

She mentioned she's willing to divorce, and find God again with the other man. The other man is in process of finalizing his divorce...

My question is, if she does get divorced and she re marries, would she lose her salvation regardless if she devotes her life to God again because her husband would still be alive??

 

[Ken Behrens]

These issues are way more complicated. They are never black and white. Divorce and remarriage is not the issue here. For a start: Why is there already so much sin on both sides? Without other factors, she should stay with the husband, but does he wish to stay with her? Are there other factors?

 

[G0D.is.L0VE]

These issues are way more complicated. They are never black and white. Divorce and remarriage is not the issue here. For a start: Why is there already so much sin on both sides? Without other factors, she should stay with the husband, but does he wish to stay with her? Are there other factors?

From what she's said, he doesn't want a divorce but he refuses to stop abusing her.

Other factors like?

 

[Butch5]

From what she's said, he doesn't want a divorce but he refuses to stop abusing her.

Other factors like?

The issue is always complicated. I've not yet seen a good argument for remarriage while the first husband is still alive. Paul said that a wife should not leave her husband, but. if she does leave she should remain unmarried. I don't know that you can tell a woman to stay with a man who beats her. That's seems a bit much. However, I don't think that gives her grounds to marry another.

 

[Ken Behrens]

The issue is always complicated. I've not yet seen a good argument for remarriage while the first husband is still alive. Paul said that a wife should not leave her husband, but. if she does leave she should remain unmarried. I don't know that you can tell a woman to stay with a man who beats her. That's seems a bit much. However, I don't think that gives her grounds to marry another.

I will state what I believe to be the correct use of Scripture, and then you guys can argue about it.

Jesus says that a husband who leaves his wife forces her to commit adultery (Matt. 5:32). The command, in context of the teaching of Jesus' day is to prevent divorce for trivial matters, and does not apply to spousal abuse. It is based on this, that Paul lays down a his advice to the Corinthians about "better to marry than to burn" (I Cor. 7:9). When a man abuses his wife, he is forcing her to leave him out of fear of her lif e(and the lives of her children). In this case, the two Scriptures I quoted give her the right to marry again.

Further, Jesus' whole teaching is based on the relationship between Adam and Eve (Matt. 19:4). An abuser is not in this relationship, so the marriage is not a true marriage in the first place.

The command to remain single only applies to the person who leaves the other, not to the person who is left (or forced out). (I Cor. 7:11). The advice about staying and praying only applies if the husband wishes to stay. A physical abuser does not wish to stay with his wife, since his actions force her out.

Further, the opinion as I've outlined it matches the majority of Christians. Most major denominations permit some form of marriage dissolution without penalty to remarry.

Finally, those who advocate in favor of abortion are quick to attack the Christians who oppose it (as well we should) that they are doing nothing to help the unwed mother (especially victims of rape) to raise the unwanted child. This accusation is not valid, but is relevant for this purpose: Show me one Christian program set up to protect the abused mother of several children from the attacks of the abusing husband, and to help her raise the family properly with no husband in the home. All such programs are secular only, there are no Christian ones. Pastorally, to continue this teaching is simply to force thousands of mothers and tens of thousands of children to live in poverty and to not have proper education. It is also to deny them love, and allow them to die only having experienced abuse in its place.

 

[Ken Behrens]

From what she's said, he doesn't want a divorce but he refuses to stop abusing her.

Other factors like?

In my other comment, I stated that to abuse is to want a divorce. Wanting to continue to abuse a person and saying you are married are incompatible. This is one factor, the inherent contradiction in the situation

There may be other reasons this sin has arisen, and it may be possible to fix the marriage if these are addressed. While a pastor is not expected to be a clinical psychologist, he should know when to call one.

 

[Butch5]

I will state what I believe to be the correct use of Scripture, and then you guys can argue about it.

Jesus says that a husband who leaves his wife forces her to commit adultery (Matt. 5:32). The command, in context of the teaching of Jesus' day is to prevent divorce for trivial matters, and does not apply to spousal abuse. It is based on this, that Paul lays down a his advice to the Corinthians about "better to marry than to burn" (I Cor. 7:9). When a man abuses his wife, he is forcing her to leave him out of fear of her lif e(and the lives of her children). In this case, the two Scriptures I quoted give her the right to marry again.

Further, Jesus' whole teaching is based on the relationship between Adam and Eve (Matt. 19:4). An abuser is not in this relationship, so the marriage is not a true marriage in the first place.

The command to remain single only applies to the person who leaves the other, not to the person who is left (or forced out). (I Cor. 7:11). The advice about staying and praying only applies if the husband wishes to stay. A physical abuser does not wish to stay with his wife, since his actions force her out.

Further, the opinion as I've outlined it matches the majority of Christians. Most major denominations permit some form of marriage dissolution without penalty to remarry.

Finally, those who advocate in favor of abortion are quick to attack the Christians who oppose it (as well we should) that they are doing nothing to help the unwed mother (especially victims of rape) to raise the unwanted child. This accusation is not valid, but is relevant for this purpose: Show me one Christian program set up to protect the abused mother of several children from the attacks of the abusing husband, and to help her raise the family properly with no husband in the home. All such programs are secular only, there are no Christian ones. Pastorally, to continue this teaching is simply to force thousands of mothers and tens of thousands of children to live in poverty and to not have proper education. It is also to deny them love, and allow them to die only having experienced abuse in its place.

My position comes from the first Christians. I know churches today allow remarriage, but churches today allow a lot of things the Scriptures don't. It is a tough situation and each one is different. I can only offer what advice I've gleaned from those first Christians who had the apostles as their teachers.

 

[Bat Melek]

Got a friend in a tough situation and I'm unsure how to approach her situation...

She's married, and her husband beats and cheats on her.

She also cheats but falls in love with another man, and he's also married.

Regardless if their marriage or single sex outside of marriage is sin. If anyone is living in sin that person needs to repent, stop doing it, turn from sin as sin is what separates us from God.

Her father is a pastor who tells her she has to stay with her husband and pray for him to change because divorce is not acceptable.

Many Dominations preach this thought, but would Christ stay in an abusive relationship & what would it benefit her if she did? Set up an permeant pattern of living in fear for her life & teach her children to be constantly afraid of men? How is that love?

And if they divorce she cannot re marry until her husband is deceased....

God would rather we experience love in a good quality marriage (an abusive marriage isn't that) than for anyone to live in sin by having a sexual relationship outside of marriage. So it would be better for them to remarry than live in sin.

I know this is true, but does this mean she basically has no hope at all to experience love and marriage again until her husband passes away?

She mentioned she's willing to divorce, and find God again with the other man.

Shen needs to make her relationship right with God now, regardless if she stays or leaves the marriage, it's a relationship with God that is important.
The other man is in process of finalizing his divorce...

My question is, if she does get divorced and she re marries, would she lose her salvation regardless if she devotes her life to God again because her husband would still be alive??
Salvation is an commitment of the heart to God not if you marry or remarry. Where is her heart? Is she right with God now?

I don't believe God would want anyone to live in an abusive relationship, nor do I believe her current marriage is blessed by God as God is love & her current husband isn't acting in love by abusing. Her marriage isn't a loving example of what God would want for her.
If she chooses to leave, divorce that should be her choice, not a pastors nor counselors but her choice.
Unfortunately, she would be living in sin if she's continues an sexual relationship outside of marriage. It would be better to marry the man than live in sin. Since sin separates individuals from God, repent & make it right with God. I don't believe she looses her salvation unless she turns away from God, if she feels she has, then repent make it right and live a righteous life instead.
But I would advise any woman &/or man that is living in an abusive situation to make sure she/he is safe regardless if they choose to stay or leave, it should be their choice not the advise of the Pastor or another person which isn't living in the house hold under fear for their life. Pastors have told women to stay which they have done hoping that by staying it would change the abuser but it also keeps them in danger an many women have been killed as an result of this.

How does she know if the "beatings &/or abusiveness" may take her life or her children's lives the next time? It would be better for anyone in this sort of situation to leave to "be safe" than live in constant fear of what the abuser might do next to them in a fit of anger/rage.
There are shelters, free counseling, support groups for anyone in abusive situation which she should seek wise counsel beyond the Pastors.

Most abusers are attempting to control through fear, physical/emotional harm, threats, control of money, threats to the children, etc. which isn't a loving situation and wouldn't be approved by God. Do we forget God is love & marriage is to be an example of love? How does abusive fit this example of marriage by God regardless if he/she says their a Christian. Does Jesus use abuse as an example of love?

Although a Pastor might advise the victim to stay to pray but the Pastor isn't living in the house under constant fear of their life either. How can a person advise anyone to live in anything but an loving house hold. She is not required to stay in this sort of situation.
/QUOTE]

 

[Ken Behrens]

My position comes from the first Christians. I know churches today allow remarriage, but churches today allow a lot of things the Scriptures don't. It is a tough situation and each one is different. I can only offer what advice I've gleaned from those first Christians who had the apostles as their teachers.

But let's remember, they were still Jews, and as such, allowed to take more than one wife. It's only by the time of Timothy and Titus that we see one wife rules and then only for deacons and bishops. There also is no Biblical precedent for weddings being held in a church, or for that matter, being officiated at all, by anyone. Like I say, this is a good deal more complicated than we make it out to be.

 

[Greg J.]

Mostly adding to what has already been posted:

Why is there already so much sin on both sides?

This is a serious issue and worth in depth examination by them, if either is willing. It sounds to me like neither of them are followers of Jesus Christ. The fact she even talked to her pastor is a good sign, however, people that have been raised to be afraid of condemnation might do this whether they're genuine followers or not.

What the best course of action is for her is very dependent on the things she's been through in the past and what other things she is dealing with at this time (e.g., blood relative issues, financial issues, etc.). There is no way to be sure any advice will apply (without the person knowing her). If her pastor has been pastoring for 15+ years, he is potentially her best advisor.

Trying to understand what God wants in situations where everything involved is sinful can be impossible. Fortunately, there is a best choice, and that is accept that all choices will lead to pain for a while, give up everything that "I" want, and do everything that God wants. While this is much easier said than done, I believe this would please God a lot and may be the only fast track to having a clear conscience. All sins forgiven and forgotten. A new start, if you will. Anyone that genuinely wants to do this and acts on it (regardless of how successful they are) would be doing something pleasing to God.

Ideally, both would get into Christian counseling (if not psychotherapy + pastoral counseling). However, by the time someone posts such problems on the internet, these sorts of avenues have often been tried or rejected already.

From trying to separate the issues so they are each easier to understand:

Abuse
I don't know what constitutes abuse in this situation, but if it really is a clear case of abuse that won't stop, it may be a viable option to separate or divorce. If it is the sort of abuse where she needs to get a restraining order, then she needs to act to protect herself. (In populated areas, there are options for people who can't do this financially; counseling that specializes in that situation is advisable.)

His Adultry
For the purposes of simplification, if he is no longer open to trying things to save the marriage (like ceasing his adultery), I think this can be viewed as part of the abuse.

Her Adultry
As hard as it may be, if she is seriously concerned about what God thinks, she needs to stop seeing the other man. It doesn't matter that his divorce is in progress. She is married. He is married. If she is separating from her husband, she needs to choose to be celibate for the time being. Right now she is finding comfort from the pain in her life from this relationship, but she needs to seek the comfort that comes from Jesus if that's the relationship that is the priority to her.

It sounds to me that it would be beneficial if she were able to recognize that everything is screwed up right now, spiritually speaking. Jesus will make a way out for her, but she needs to be obedient to experience it. It might take longer than she wants for it to be resolved, particularly since it sounds like the Lord needs to help her with her own internal conflicts.

Life can be impossibly difficult. If her situation is affecting her like that, then the Lord's grace is available. He died to forgive her of all of her sins. Anything she does in an effort to be obedient to please the Lord Jesus Christ will be successful in pleasing him. Genuinely asking him for help and yielding to him and doing what he says would be a good path for her. The Lord knows her limitations and the consequences of all the choices before her. She may already know what He wants, but it might be good to double-check it with her pastor.

Show me one Christian program set up to ... help her raise the family properly with no husband in the home. All such programs are secular only, there are no Christian ones.

I'm glad to report that our church has something like this (but it's not comprehensive).

 

[Ken Behrens]

I'm glad to report that our church has something like this (but it's not comprehensive).

I was just going to give you a rating of like and informative, but i saw this at the end. Can you tell me a little about how this program works?

 

[Greg J.]

It's a single moms support ministry. I'll send you a little detail.

 

[Ken Behrens]

It's a single moms support ministry. I'll send you a little detail.

Received it. Had some questions that may make it worthwhile to post here for everyone. See what you think.

 

[miamited]

Hi GIL,

I know you're knowledgeable regarding the Scriptures, but I did want to make a point about a previous post for the sake of others who may not be so knowledgeable.

Matthew 5:32 does not sat that a divorced woman becomes an adulterer. It says that she is the victim of adultery, but that if she remarries she makes her new husband an adulterer. So, in this situation she becomes like the woman in the proverbs who calls out in the street for men to take her pleasures. She makes the wayward man an adulterer. Of course it's true no matter which spouse finds themselves the 'victim' of divorce.

Of course, in your example the adultery issue is no longer in play. The husband has committed adultery and the wife has already committed adultery. So, the issue of one or the other becoming an adulterer through a divorce isn't even worth discussing here. She might as well get her divorce and move on. No one will be found guilty on the day of God's judgment only be the number of their sin. For if one fails at even one point of the law they are guilty of breaking the whole of it.

My concern, of course, is her future. I understand that she has a father who is a pastor, but that doesn't carry even a whit of value to whether or not she is born again. If she isn't, she can do whatever her heart desires that she does, but you'd be doing her a much larger favor to help her in her relationship with God, then being concerned with her marital situation.

Anyone who is not born again is free to do whatever they'd like in this life. It won't matter and our just trying to get them to stop sinning won't be of any value to them later.

God bless you,
In Christ, Ted

 

[JCFantasy23]

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[Kit Sigmon]

Got a friend in a tough situation and I'm unsure how to approach her situation...

She's married, and her husband beats and cheats on her.
she should separate from her abusive spouse...report his abuse to the police. She can also get in contact with the
National Domestic Violence hotline link... http://www.thehotline.org/

She also cheats but falls in love with another man, and he's also married.
Repentance from adultery need to be done...flee from temptations!

Her father is a pastor who tells her she has to stay with her husband and pray for him to change because divorce is not acceptable. And if they divorce she cannot re marry until her husband is deceased....
You serious? her own daddy know his daughter is being beaten by her husband and he be OK with that? Her daddy even tell her to continue living with her abusive husband?
Sound to me like the woman was messed up long before she got hitched up with a physically abusive husband...she went from one form of abuse to another!

There needs to be some disciplining done on this couple since both of them be sinning...read Matthew 18:15-17.
But then again, they'd have to be in a church that would do that sort of thing...an from the sound of things, that don't seem to be the case?


I know this is true, but does this mean she basically has no hope at all to experience love and marriage again until her husband passes away?
There be hope for all of them, but they situation is something all of them need to take before the Lord and submit themselves to Him and do what the scriptures say.

The married woman who is being beaten, she got hope...her hope be found in the Lord Jesus. He be the only hope for sinful mankind.

She mentioned she's willing to divorce, and find God again with the other man. The other man is in process of finalizing his divorce...

My question is, if she does get divorced and she re marries, would she lose her salvation regardless if she devotes her life to God again because her husband would still be alive??

There nothing in the scriptures about a believer losing they salvation...look at the life of King David, who committed spiritual and physical adultery, he also arranged things so Bathsheba's husband would be killed in battle etc.
King David married Bathsheba, whom he got pregnant.
Nathan the prophet confronted King David about what he'd done and told him everything God told him to say.

King David made sincere repentance, God forgave David.
Do Note: God didn't tell King David to divorce Bathsheba. However, King David would suffer the consequences of his great sin and his kingdom and kingship would never be the same ever again.
Accounting of the matter...David had Uriah(Bathsheba's husband) killed, and 3 of David's sons would be killed, his only daughter would be raped by her brother and live in shame the rest of her life. The sexual sin King David had committed in secret, would reap a whirlwind of consequences in his home...just as Nathan the prophet had said...the sword wouldn't depart from David's house.
David married Bathsheba but was he any better for it?

Check themselves...They inclinations was to go commit adultery, betray they spouses, defy God's Word instead of seeking the Lord in diligent prayer and godly counsel from scripture and applying it in they own lives...no evidence of them fleeing from temptation huh?

Where be they reverence for God or his Word???
No mention of any of you fearing offending the Lord or causing Him to be mocked? dragging testimonies in the dirt? there they go giving the unsaved around you reason to mock the faith etc.

Abuse in marriage...Honestly...If any woman on here find herself being beaten by her own husband, she need to call the cops on him the first time it happens! Don't give him no free pass, he'll just do it again an again!
There laws out there to protect a person from someone who beats them.
Make no excuse for domestic violence!
Get in contact with the National Domestic Violence hotline link... http://www.thehotline.org/

The bible say for us to live at peace(Romans 12:18) , if your home, life be a mess.... spouses committing adultery, abuse going on...you ain't got no peace.

The devil be having a field day now with these people and you wondering if the abused wife who is also cheating can find love and marriage again???
You already know she be getting love from another woman's husband and she wants to marry him? and he's in the process of divorcing his wife... that's way to quick to be considering marry again! specially when they be all wrapped up in sinfulness!

Being a christian isn't something you put on and take off at whenever you feel like it.
It's a 24/7 thing, it's a personal relationship with the God of the Universe! You don't tell him how you going to do the faith, He already spelled out in the Bible how a believer is to do!
People be out of order if they think they can tell God how they going to run things!
It show how little they know God and scripture.


Your "friend" already plotted her course, just like King David!
Hopefully when she is confronted...She will make sincere repentance just like King David did and just like him, she will suffer the consequences of her own adultery, whether she remarries or remains unmarried...either way she will face the consequences of her choices, as will all who are mentioned in this tale of yours.
The bible be clear of this...there be the law of sowing and reaping...you will reap from what you have sowed...this is revealed in the life of: King David, King Solomon, Samson, Lot and many many more in the bible.

 

[Dave-W]

Wanting to continue to abuse a person and saying you are married are incompatible.

Not really. I have known a few men like that (including my dad) They want a stay-at-home punching bag to take out their frustrations on. If she moves out or divorces him, he has to find another punching bag.

 

[Dave-W]

Where be they reverence for God or his Word???
No mention of any of you fearing offending the Lord or causing Him to be mocked? dragging testimonies in the dirt? there they go giving the unsaved around you reason to mock the faith etc.

Abuse in marriage...Honestly...If any woman on here find herself being beaten by her own husband, she need to call the cops on him the first time it happens! Don't give him no free pass, he'll just do it again an again!

And yet you are saying to call the cops? Is that also not ignoring God's word that tells her she must "submit?" No fear there of offending the Lord? Does not David write in the Psalms that it is good for a person to "swear to his own hurt" and keep the vow?

There is no good witness in being a punching bag.
There is also no good testimony in calling the police.

 

[Greg J.]

Not really. I have known a few men like that (including my dad) They want a stay-at-home punching bag to take out their frustrations on. If she moves out or divorces him, he has to find another punching bag.

I think he is referring to God's perspective, not the abuser's. God knows the heart and if the abuser thinks that, he is deceived about himself (in more than one way).

The way of the Lord is voluntary submission, by the way.

 

[Ken Behrens]

Not really. I have known a few men like that (including my dad) They want a stay-at-home punching bag to take out their frustrations on. If she moves out or divorces him, he has to find another punching bag.

I meant incompatible in God's eyes.