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Adonai and Adoni

Discussion in 'Christianity and World Religion' started by CHRISTgospel, Jul 22, 2002.

  1. CHRISTgospel

    CHRISTgospel Member

    105
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    Adonai and Adoni (Psalm 110:1)

    The Bible’s supreme proof text for telling the difference between the One God and the Messiah who is not God

    This verse was referred to the Messiah by the Pharisees and by Jesus. It tells us that the relationship between God and Jesus is that of Deity and non-Deity. The Messiah is called adoni (my lord) and in every one of its 195 occurrences adoni (my lord) means a superior who is not God. Adonai on the other hand refers exclusively to the One God in all of its 449 occurrences. Adonai is the title of Deity and adoni never designates Deity.

    If the Messiah were called Adonai this would introduce “two Gods” into the Bible and would be polytheism. Psalm 110:1 should guard us all against supposing that there are two who are God. In fact the Messiah is the supreme human being and agent of the One God. Psalm 110:1 is the Bible’s master text for defining the Son of God in relation to the One God, his Father.

    Why is it that a number of commentaries misstate the facts about Psalm 110:1? They assert that the word for the Messiah in Psalm 110:1 is adonai. It is not. These commentaries seem to obscure a classic text defining God in relation to His Son. The Hebrew text assigns to the Messiah the title adoni which invariably distinguishes the one addressed from the Deity. The Messiah is the supreme human lord. He is not the Lord God (cp. I Tim. 2:5; I Cor. 8:4-6; Mark 12:28ff).

    Why is the Messiah called adoni (my lord) and never adonai (my Lord God)?

    “Adonai and Adoni are variations of Masoretic pointing to distinguish divine reference from human.”

    Adonai is referred to God but Adoni to human superiors.

    Adoni — ref. to men: my lord, my master [see Ps. 110:1]
    Adonai — ref. to God…Lord (Brown, Driver, Briggs, Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament, under adon [= lord]).

    “The form ADONI (‘my lord’), a royal title (I Sam. 29:8), is to be carefully distinguished from the divine title ADONAI (‘my Lord’) used of Yahweh.” “ADONAI — the special plural form [the divine title] distinguishes it from adonai [with short vowel] = my lords” (International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, “Lord,” p. 157).

    “Lord in the OT is used to translate ADONAI when applied to the Divine Being. The [Hebrew] word…has a suffix [with special pointing] presumably for the sake of distinction…between divine and human appellative” (Hastings Dictionary of the Bible, “Lord,” Vol. 3, p. 137).

    “Hebrew Adonai exclusively denotes the God of Israel. It is attested about 450 times in the OT…Adoni [is] addressed to human beings (Gen. 44:7, Num. 32:25, II Kings 2:19 [etc.]). We have to assume that the word adonai received its special form to distinguish it from the secular use of adon [i.e., adoni]. The reason why [God is addressed] as adonai, [with long vowel] instead of the normal adon, adoni or adonai [with short vowel] may have been to distinguish Yahweh from other gods and from human lords” (Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible, p. 531).

    “The lengthening of the â on Adonai [the Lord God] may be traced to the concern of the Masoretes to mark the word as sacred by a small external sign” (Theological Dictionary of the OT, “Adon,” p. 63 and Theological Dictionary of the NT, III, 1060ff. n.109).

    “The form ‘to my lord,’ l’adoni, is never used in the OT as a divine reference…the generally accepted fact that the masoretic pointing distinguishes divine references (adonai) from human references (adoni)” (Wigram, The Englishman’s Hebrew and Chaldee Concordance of the OT, p. 22) (Herbert Bateman, “Psalm 110:1 and the NT,” Bibliothecra Sacra, Oct.-Dec., 1992, p. 438).
     
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  2. Ioustinos

    Ioustinos Veteran

    +153
    Eastern Orthodox
    Private
    US-Libertarian
    CHRISTgospel,


    Good work on supporting your idea! :cool: I too have a Brown-Driver Lexicon so I checked your claims. Yet I must say that scripture proves scripture. As you said Psalms 110:1 is one of the most used scriptures concerning the Messiah, which we can find in Matthew 22:44, Mark 12:36, Luke 20:42-43).

    Let's just look at one reference: Matthew 22:44.

    Christ quotes Psalms 110:1 and then asks,"If David then calls Him 'Lord' how is He his Son?" Remember that in verse 41 the people had called Christ the "Son of David." What Christ was saying was if the Messiah was only a human descendent then why would David refer to Him as "Lord"? The answer is that Christ was not only a human descendent of David but the Son of God. Here we see Christ declaring His diety.

    The Trinity is not 3 Gods but One God revealed in 3 Persons. :)



    Jesaiah
     
  3. Job_38

    Job_38 <font size="1"> In perfect orbit they have circled

    +1
    Something I had to give up on dealing with this is I cannot understand it. Because as Jesaiah said, The Trinity is God revealed in 3. I dont know why, I just take it.
     
  4. OldShepherd

    OldShepherd Zaqunraah

    +172
    Baptist
    Married
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    Posted by CHRISTgospel

    "
    Why is the Messiah called adoni (my lord) and never adonai (my Lord God)?

    "Adonai and Adoni are variations of Masoretic pointing to distinguish divine reference from human."
    "
    In the pre-Massoretic pointed Hebrew scriptures "Adonai" was written aleph-daleth-nun-yod but "Adoni" was written aleph-daleth-nun-yod. Notice that the Hebrew consonantal spelling is exactly the same. Could it be that the Massoretic vowel pointing was a 10th century Jewish backlash against the Trinity and Christianity? Particularly since the only real Trinity outside of Christianity originated within pre-Christian Judaism.

    One God, three persons. Just maybe Hebrews chapter one has it right?
     
  5. OldShepherd

    OldShepherd Zaqunraah

    +172
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    Posted by CG

    "
    The lengthening of the â on Adonai [the Lord God] may be traced to the concern of the Masoretes to mark the word as sacred by a small external sign" (Theological Dictionary of the OT, "Adon," p. 63 and Theological Dictionary of the NT, III, 1060ff. n.109).

    First this statement does not appear in my copy of TWOT, in any form. Adon is not on page 63 but page 12. And the TWOT does make this statement;

    So I wonder about all those other quotes. I suspect CG's post was lifted from some anti-Christian site or publication and not from his personal research

    Correction posted following day. I misread CG's source mistaking TDOT for TWOT. But still question this source because author's name(s) missing, no volume number, TDOT&nbsp;has 11 vols. No publisher, and no pub. date.

    And I have been unable to locate any reference to "adon" anywhere in the TDNT.
     
  6. OldShepherd

    OldShepherd Zaqunraah

    +172
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    Posted by CG

    "
    The form ADONI (‘my lord’), a royal title (I Sam. 29:8), is to be carefully distinguished from the divine title ADONAI (‘my Lord’) used of Yahweh." "ADONAI — the special plural form [the divine title] distinguishes it from adonai [with short vowel] = my lords" (International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, "Lord," p. 157).


    I would have to call this strike two. Below the complete entry under Adonai in the ISBE. See link below.

     
  7. drmmjr

    drmmjr Regular Member

    459
    +7
    Christian
    OldShepherd,

    Did you mean TDOT instead of TWOT?
     
  8. OldShepherd

    OldShepherd Zaqunraah

    +172
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    Busted! I realized right after I posted that I had misread CG's source but it was too late and I intended to come back today and change it.&nbsp; His quote may have been from the TDOT, my response was from the TWOT. Sorry for the confusion. But I will have to say his quote is still off the mark. No publisher, author, pub. date, or volume number. And judging from his track records. . . (And having thus said goes back and adds vol. no. to his own post. Ooops.)
     
  9. filosofer

    filosofer Senior Veteran

    +287
    Lutheran
    I had a private email discussion (of sorts) a few months ago with someone who used the identical wording and reasoning regarding the supposed difference between ADONI and ADONAI. After I point out the linguistic and logical fallacies of that approach (as Old Shepherd has noted a few), the person finally almost demanded that the vowel pointing of the Masoretic text be accepted because "the vowel pointing was fully inspired" to make the consonantal text inspired "in a certain way."
     
  10. OldShepherd

    OldShepherd Zaqunraah

    +172
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    Originally posted by CG.

    #1 Adonai and Adoni (Psalm 110:1)

    The Bible’s supreme proof text for telling the difference between the One God and the Messiah who is not God
    etc., etc., etc., and blah, blah, blah. On to the end. . . . . . . . . . . .

    * * *


    "The form ‘to my lord,’ l’adoni, is never used in the OT as a divine reference…the generally accepted fact that the masoretic pointing distinguishes divine references (adonai) from human references (adoni)" (Wigram, The Englishman’s Hebrew and Chaldee Concordance of the OT, p. 22) (Herbert Bateman, "Psalm 110:1 and the NT," Bibliothecra Sacra, Oct.-Dec., 1992, p. 438)."

    The first post on this thread, quoted in part, above, was cut and pasted, word for word, from Tony the Buzzard, a known enemy of Christianity. I don’t know why anyone would want to read these&nbsp;Buzzard droppings but here is a link to back up my alegation, (The Buzzard)

    I have no problem with quoting articles from the internet. But if one is posting on this forum professing to be a Christian then they should have the honesty and integrity to cite their sources instead of presenting someone else’s work as if it were their own.
     
  11. CHRISTgospel

    CHRISTgospel Member

    105
    +0
    Old Shepherd...my you are riled, yes? I never said this way my article and I never inferred it was mine. .... actually I believe I copied this from Juan Baxiras (sp?) homesite that has links to ANTHONY Buzzard not TONY.

    And Mr. Buzzard loves the Lord - because he does not believe in the trinity doctrine of man he is an enemy of Christianity?!?

    here is Mr. Buzzard's site with all his articles.... I don't agree with everything he says but he is a good teacher.

    http://www.mindspring.com/~anthonybuzzard/

    http://www.geocities.com/jbaixeras/#Who We Are

    And please do share what you feel Mr. Buzzard teaches against Christ's gospel.
     
  12. filosofer

    filosofer Senior Veteran

    +287
    Lutheran
    Without any kind of attribution, your first post appears to be your thoughts and your words. There is no way that anyone reading that post could determine who the author was - besides you.

    If you are going to cut and paste from another site, at least have the integrity to attribute the writing to the person - when you first post, not 10 posts later.
     
  13. filosofer

    filosofer Senior Veteran

    +287
    Lutheran
    That pretty well sums it up.
     
  14. CHRISTgospel

    CHRISTgospel Member

    105
    +0
    point taken filo - shall do from this point on
     
  15. CHRISTgospel

    CHRISTgospel Member

    105
    +0
    Filo how do you answer below?

    Please answer who Jesus took the book from in Revelation 5:7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

    Also, please explain John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, AND AND AND (not shouting here truly - just wanting to make a point) Jesus Christ, whom thou has sent.

    Also,1 Cor 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

    Ephesians 1:3 - "Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."

    Ephesians 1:17 - "I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father..."

    2 Corinthians 1:3 - "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."

    2 Corinthians 11:31 - "The God and Father of the Lord Jesus Christ knows, He who is blessed forever, that I do not lie."

    Romans 15:6 - "that with one accord you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."

    1 Peter 1:3 - "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."

    Revelation 1:6 - "To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, who has made us into a kingdom, priests for his God and Father."

    John 20:17 - "I am going to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God."


    Jesus has a God - Jesus has a Father. How can one read the above verses and still believe that Jesus is God Almighty?

    love in Christ,
    Sondra
     
  16. MizDoulos

    MizDoulos <font color=6c2dc7><b>Justified by grace through f

    +3
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Once again, since there is a claim in the first post that Jesus Christ is not God, this thread has been moved to this forum.
     
  17. CHRISTgospel

    CHRISTgospel Member

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    Angel, please feel free to jump in and answer what I posted to Filo. Because this "Christian Wannabe" (being that I do not believe in the trinity doctrine of man and am told that I am not a Christian) truly needs an answer to how Jesus can have a God - if he is God.

    respectfully in Christ,
    Sondra
     
  18. ansarthemystic

    ansarthemystic Member

    128
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    CG, not that I am a christian, but I am glad someone sees that the trinity doctrine and the divinity of christ are man-made doctrines, and to be a true christian one must be a follower of christ not of MEN.

    PEACE AND BLESSINGS
    ASSALAMU ALAIKUM
    SHALOM
     
  19. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild Sheep in Wolf's clothing

    +1
    Non-Denom
    The Bible records that the Word became a man. Being in substance, God - he did not count it robbery to be made for a time lower than the angels, becoming a man.

    Nonetheless - the Father remains as God, as does the Holy Spirit. Could a mere man, which the Bible declares that the word became, claim to be God? The answer is no - he is lower than the angels (if the Bible is to be believed).

    Jesus claimed that the Father is his God - Even this proves nothing as a denial of deity-as-origin: The mind of a man's spirit is higher than the mind of a man's flesh. (or to satisfy the atheist: super-ego is higher than id.)

    Man is designed as an analogue of God, having body, soul and spirit....the analogue reflects the tri-une nature of God ... man the spirit/ God the Father etc
     
  20. CHRISTgospel

    CHRISTgospel Member

    105
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    Hi Thunderchild
    would you have typed God the Son ? If so, please reference scripture.

    Yes, I agree the word became flesh and dwelt among us but again God did not become man - God's, word "logos" - God's plans was manifested through His only begotten Son Jesus the Christ.

    Are we to replaced every "logos" in the Holy Writ with "Jesus" ?

    Hi Ansarthemystic - Shalom as well to you - what does your "nick" mean - do you believe in mysticism (sp?) and what language is ASSALAMU ALAIKUM -full of questions here ~smile~
     
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