Addressing the Works of Thiele and Albright

[Humble Penny]

Have you ever wondered why the date for the Destruction of the 1st Temple is set to -587/586 BC and no one questions it as if it is the gold standard? This question never entered into my mind until after I had completed my indepedent work showing the Septuagint/LXX to hold the key to the true biblcal chronologial timeline. Below is a comparison of my work using the LXX and the Masoretic Text/MT with those of the aforementioned gentleman, whose works I will include as a hyperlink at the end of this post.

According to my work I reckoned that from Adam to the Destruction of the 1st Temple are 4,947 Years in the year 4947 AM and -523 BC:

LXX (Date of Creation -5470 BC)
2,242 Years (Adam to Flood)
1,247 Years (Flood to Abraham)
430 Years (Abraham to Moses)
511 Years (Moses to Saul)
517 Years (Saul to Babylon)
4,947 Years (Adam to Babylon)

Convert Anno Mundi to Anno Domini (LXX)
4947 AM - 5,470 Years = -523 BC

MT (Date of Creation -4004 BC)
1,656 Years (Adam to Flood)
367 Years (Flood to Abraham)
430 Years (Abraham to Moses)
511 Years (Moses to Saul)
517 Years (Saul to Babylon)
3,481 Years (Adam to Babylon)

Convert Anno Mundi to Anno Domini (MT)
3481 AM - 4,004 Years = -523 BC

So there is clearly a 63-64 Year discrepancy between my proposed date (-523 BC) and those of Thiele (-586 BC) and Albright (-587 BC). I don't like wasting breath on anything superfluous so let's jump straight to Albright's work. Strangely enough Albright doesn't tell us which date of creation he is using, so we will analyze where he ends his count with the Babylonian captivty and see where he begins it:

The Biblical Period from Abraham to Ezra
1st Temple destroyed in -587 BC

Rehoboam's 1st Year after Solomon's death in -922 BC

According to Albright there are 335 Years between the 1st Year of Rehoboam in -922 BC to the destruction of the first Temple in -587 BC. Let us now move to the work of Thiele to see where he begins and ends his count for the same time period:

The mysterious numbers of the Hebrew kings
1st Year of Rehoboam in -930 BC

(continuation of line of kings of Israel and Judah)

1st Temple destroyed in -586 BC

According to Thiele there are 344 Years between the 1st Year of Rehoboam in -930 BC to the destruction of the first Temple in -586 BC. This is strange, how is it that both Albright and Thiele begin the 1st Year of Rehoboam 8 Years apart from one another (930-922 = 8), but end up having a 1 Year discrepancy between their dates for the destruction of Solomon's Temple (587-586 = 1)?! Let us continue with our analysis and line up their numbers against the Word of God. This time around I will use the 480 Years from Moses to Solomon's 4th Year as we read in 1 Kings 6:1 as the MT has it; and, as a bonus we will also include the rabbinic date of creation to be fair and unbiased:

MT (Date of Creation -4004 BC)
1,656 Years (Adam to Flood)
367 Years (Flood to Abraham)
430 Years (Abraham to Moses)
480 Years (Moses to Solomon's 4th Year)
2,933 Years (Adam to Solomon's 4th Year)

Convert Anno Mundi to Anno Domini (MT)
2933 AM - 4,004 Years = -1071 BC

MT vs Albright
1,071 Years - 587 Years = 484 Years vs 335 Years
MT vs Thiele
1,071 Years - 586 Years = 485 Years vs 344 Years

LXX (Date of Creation -5470 BC)
2,242 Years (Adam to Flood)
1,247 Years (Flood to Abraham)
430 Years (Abraham to Moses)
597 Years 6 Months (Moses to Solomon's 4th Year)
4,516 Years 6 Months (Adam to Solomon's 4th Year)

Convert Anno Mundi to Anno Domini (LXX)
4516.5 AM - 5,470 Years = -953.5 BC

LXX vs Albright
953.5 Years - 587 Years = 366.5 Years vs 335 Years
LXX vs Thiele
953.5 Years - 586 Years = 367.5 Years vs 344 Years

Rabbinic Judaism (Date of Creation -3761 BC)
1,656 Years (Adam to Flood)
367 Years (Flood to Abraham)
430 Years (Abraham to Moses)
480 Years (Moses to Solomon's 4th Year)
2,933 Years (Adam to Solomon's 4th Year)

Convert Anno Mundi to Anno Domini (MT)
2933 AM - 3,761 Years = -828 BC

MT vs Albright
828 Years - 587 Years = 241 Years vs 335 Years
MT vs Thiele
828 Years - 586 Years = 242 Years vs 344 Years

In closing brothers and sisters we see that these two men have been exposed to be nothing but frauds who seem to be suffering from an incurable madness as the numbers make it clear their dates are based on nothing but their wild imaginations. Their work has been shown to be nothing but a waste of pen and ink. As our brothers Paul and John tell us:

"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good."
1 Thessalonians 5:21 KJV

"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."
1 John 4:1 KJV

 

[Humble Penny]

The mysterious numbers of the Hebrew kings : Thiele, Edwin Richard, 1895-1986 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

The Biblical period from Abraham to Ezra : Albright, William Foxwell, 1891-1971 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

 

[Christian Gedge]

Have you ever wondered why the date for the Destruction of the 1st Temple is set to -587/586 BC and no one questions it as if it is the gold standard?

It’s not only Albright and Thiele Humble Penny. It’s Ussher, McFall, Galil, Kitchen, Young and last (and probably least, Humble me. )The only dissenting view that I can think of might be the Seder Olam, 423 BC.

 

[Humble Penny]

It’s not only Albright and Thiele Humble Penny. It’s Ussher, McFall, Galil, Kitchen, Young and last (and probably least, Humble me. )The only dissenting view that I can think of might be the Seder Olam, 423 BC.

Thank you for your comment brother Gedge...phew...I feel less alone now.

 

[Humble Penny]

The only dissenting view that I can think of might be the Seder Olam, 423 BC.

While I haven't read the Seder Olam I was trying to remember where I read about the -423 BC date you mentioned. And then I remembered I saw it from a paper I read by Rabbi Simon Schwab Comparative Jewish Chronology where he feigns an attempt to "reconcile" the 166 Year discrepancy between the secular date of the First Temple's destrction (-586 BC) with that of the Rabbinic Jewish date (-420 BC), the calculations are as follows:

Beginning from -3761 BC
Adam to Destruction of 1st Temple
1,656 Years (Adam to Flood)
392 Years (Flood to Abraham's 100th Year)
400 Years (Abraham's 100th Year to Moses)
480 Years (Moses to Solomon's 4th Year)
410 Years (Solomon's 4th Year to 1st Temple's Detruction)
3,338 Years (Adam to 1st Temple's Destruction)

Convert Anno Mundi to Anno Domini
3338 AM -3,761 Years = -423 BC

If we examine the rabbinic calculation carefully we find that they are missing 5 Years from their timeline which may be seen by observing three key dates for Abraham's life:

1. 292 Years (Abraham's Birth)
2. 367 Years (Abraham's 75th Year)
3. 392 (Abraham's 100th Year)

From the birth of Abraham to the Exodus are 505 Years; from the 75th Year of Abraham to the Exodus are 430 Years; from the 100th Year of Abraham to the Exodus are 405 Years. This then would move the intial date for the First Temple's Destruction from -423 BC to -418 BC.

Since according to the Masoretic Text there are 480 Years from the Exodus to the 4th Year of Solomon and the rabbi's count 410 Years from then to the Babylonian Captivity we have the following number of years for the reigns of the kings of Judah and Israel:

Saul to 1st Temple's Dedication
40 Years (Saul)
2 Years (Ishbosheth)
40 Years (David)
4 Years (Solomon dedicates 1st Temple)
86 Years (Saul to Dedication of 1st Temple)

4th Year of Solomon to Destruction of 1st Temple
86 Years + 410 Years = 496 Years

This number is impossible whether you reckon the numbers from the Masoretic Text or the Septuagint which count the years of the kings of Judah as 517 Years thus leading to a 21 Year discrepancy. For not only did the kingdom of Judah outlast the kingdom of Israel, but there is a clear succession of their kings without anyone of them overlapping the others reign; contrast this against the house of Saul whose kings and queen had unstable and many overlapping reigns.

Therefore we see that the years after Abraham are based not on Scripture, but Aggadic pronouncements. And this isn't even addressing the glaring discrepancies between the Rabbi's traditional chronology and that of the internal evidence of the Masoretic Text, and the Septuagint.

 

[Humble Penny]

It’s not only Albright and Thiele Humble Penny. It’s Ussher, McFall, Galil, Kitchen, Young and last (and probably least, Humble me. )The only dissenting view that I can think of might be the Seder Olam, 423 BC.

I can't think of any other dissenting views aside from -523 BC and -423 BC. I have looked over my tables conerning the kings of Israel and Judah to make sure I didn't overlook anything in their histories, and it's impossible to get any other number than 517 Years from Saul to Mattaniah/Zedekiah. This is supported by two facts:

1. According to the LXX and the MT there are 597.5 Years from Moses to Solomon's 4th Year.
2. Josephus records 592 Years from Moses to Solomon's 4th Year.

No other ancient biblical historian mentions these numbers that I can recall this moment. Upon closer inspection of my date -523 BC and the rabbinic date -423 BC for the First Temple's Destruction I find something odd:

First Temple's Destruction
523 Years - 423 Years = 100 Year discrepancy

First Temple's Destruction
4947 Years - 3,338 Years = 1,609 Year discrepancy

As we see above the rabbinic dating is clearly wrong and cannot be based on any serious biblical or historical fact. For the Anno Domini dates cannot be 100 Years apart while the Anno Mundi dates are 1,609 Years apart.

 

[Chiliastie]

I make it at about 519 to 514 and Nebuchadnezzar`s famous 37th year about 500 BC?
VAT 4956. Are there any astronomers out there who could chech for this?

 

[Humble Penny]

I make it at about 519 to 514 and Nebuchadnezzar`s famous 37th year about 500 BC?
VAT 4956. Are there any astronomers out there who could chech for this?

There may be but, I don't know of any personally as I have no real mastery of astronomy. What I can say is that depending on which bible manuscript you rely on for your chronology will affect your count and the way you interpret the evidence.