Addiction: sin or disease?

[Josheb]

Those who judge and place themselves in the Judgment Seat are under judgment.

God is under judgment?

You are not judging those who judge, are you?


Tell me also, what does, "Those who judge and place themselves in the Judgment Seat are under judgment," have to do with the question, "Is addiction sin or disease?"?

 

[Josheb]

You can take this or leave it, you who judge, but if Jesus returned today as He first came, He would most likely not be found in a suit looking spiritual and pleasing to God on Sunday mornings.

Do you know where He would be? Most likely downtown amongst the addicted sinners.... alcoholics, meth heads, coke harlots, heroin addicts, sexual addicts, you know, the rejects of society, the ones most in the church silently think "Do not come near me, lest you taint me with your sin"......

This is a common misperception based on the scriptural report Jesus ate at the tax collectors' homes. This is much different than hanging out in brothels, crack houses, opium dens, or even leper colonies. Remember Jesus fulfilled the law and did not sin.

Yes, Jesus went to sinners, or more accurately, he went to where sinners could and would come to him. Big difference.

And I don't know why comments like, "...you who judge..." is necessary 1) to answer the question this op asks, or 2) to provide input about the likelihood Jesus would have associated with addicts where they were high and mired in their addiction more likely than not in a state where they could not and would not understand a word he was teaching. Yes, perhaps he might have made sober those under the stuporous influence of their chemical dependency but there is no record of him doing so in the gospels and there were most certainly alcoholics, hashish addicts, opium, and heroin, addicts in his day.

Here is the deal. We are sitting at the precipice of eternity. God is calling His church to shake off our religious stupor and to seek Him with our WHOLE hearts.

Yes, let's hijack the op and turn the discussion about addiction into an indictment of the whole church. I'm sure that's from the Holy Spirit .

 

[SkyWriting]

I agree.
I went to a Christian seminar once which said just that.
A person has a traumatic life event, like a sudden bereavement; it is painful and they may have a drink or two to numb the pain. Inevitably the drink will wear off and they have to face their loss at some point. If they don't feel able to deal with the pain, they may have another drink or two - alcohol makes them feel good, and they'd rather that than feel in pain.
The trouble is that soon they will have to have more alcohol to provide the same pleasant feelings as before -> addiction.
For alcohol, also substitute chocolate, cake, coffee, drugs, computer games, work, sport, hobbies, inappropriate contentography, gambling. I would hesitate to label it as a sin; who hasn't heard of someone who gets bullied because of their weight and comforts themselves with more food? Or someone who has a hellish home life who loses themselves in fantasy computer games as a way of escape, or works all hours in the office to avoid going home?

Or anybody who doesn't feel loved.

 

[Josheb]

A sin that has physiological effects.

And physiological roots, too.

In ancient times folks compartively little about the physiology of addiction. Addiction was deemed a moral issue, one that could be conquered by volition alone. Nowadays we can examine the brain and the organs of the body at a cellular level and we've learned a great deal that was previously unknown. That's just the medical end of things. We've also learned that many people with dependencies (not just chemical dependencies) have a history of abuse, neglect, or trauma, each of which in turn changes the brain and other physiology.

For example, alcoholics have an inherited tolerance for the chemicals occurring when alcohol is metabolized. They don't simply build a tolerance to alcohol, they have a physiological tolerance to two chemicals that most others find toxic. The build up of these chemicals in the liver and the brain doesn't bother thee people as much or as early as it does those who do not have a physiological tolerance for these toxins.

Is that sin? Yes! God did not make us that way.

Remember this: No one was born with a bottle or a pipe in their mouth, nor a syringe in their arm.

God gave us the state of consciousness He wanted us to have, and with the possible exception of the states we might achieve through prayer and meditation we're not supposed to seek out any other state of consciousness. It is that state through which God first related to humanity. None of us have ever known the good, unashamed, and sinless state in which Adam and Eve first lived.


In the face of these physiological effects of chemicals not otherwise present in the human naturally, or as God first made us, incredible changes occur that exacerbate the introduction of adulterating influences into our body. The cells' walls thicken to protect themselves and this prevents nutrients that could otherwise pass through the normal wall thickness from feeding the cell. On the inside debri that would normally exit the cell wall builds up inside the cell causing every cell to become toxic. Whole body healing becomes necessary, beginning with detoxification. Chemicals that are wate soluble flush out of the system rather quickly, but those stored in the ft tissues of our body can take, weeks and months to leave.

This doesn't happen solely with drugs. Gambling, inappropriate contentography, even certain foods and many repetitive behaviors can and do change brain chemistry. Men and women who touch oftne lose sensitivity and become unable to experience sex as they otherwise would. Gambling and other behaviors that cause sudden rushes of the neurotransmitters associated with thrills become conditioning.

Fundamentally, an addiction is simply anything that leads us to the point of, "I've gotta have it in order to feel normal." The problem is normal is Eden. Go back to the fact that we were not born with a cigarette in our mouth. Even in the fleshly state normal is not a state of being high. The addict's "normal" is a "new normal;" the "normal" s/he's looking and longing for is that first rush and having pursued that rush s/he has gradually anesthetized himself from his own ability to experience normal.




And this is why Christ is necessary. No human can stand before God even without an addiction apart from the shed blood of Christ. Covered with Calvary even the addict is welcomed into God's saving embrace.

 

[Gideons300]

This is a common misperception based on the scriptural report Jesus ate at the tax collectors' homes. This is much different than hanging out in brothels, crack houses, opium dens, or even leper colonies. Remember Jesus fulfilled the law and did not sin.

Yes, Jesus went to sinners, or more accurately, he went to where sinners could and would come to him. Big difference.

And I don't know why comments like, "...you who judge..." is necessary 1) to answer the question this op asks, or 2) to provide input about the likelihood Jesus would have associated with addicts where they were high and mired in their addiction more likely than not in a state where they could not and would not understand a word he was teaching. Yes, perhaps he might have made sober those under the stuporous influence of their chemical dependency but there is no record of him doing so in the gospels and there were most certainly alcoholics, hashish addicts, opium, and heroin, addicts in his day.



Yes, let's hijack the op and turn the discussion about addiction into an indictment of the whole church. I'm sure that's from the Holy Spirit .

So if I am understanding you right, if He did hang out where sinners congregated, He would have been sinning?

Was this not what infuriated the religious of His day, that he did indeed do so? Do you think Jesus was simply telling a nice story about the master being angry that the called were too busy with things of this world that he instead went after the imprisoned who longed in their hearts for freedom, real genuine freedom, those the religious folks of His day would never even be seen with, let alone helped?

Do you think addicts have no hope except to confess they will always be addicts, and dutifully go to 12 step meetings, with fear being the driving force to keep them clean? I believe God's power bringing life more abundant trumps fear any day.

If I am hijacking this thread, forgive me, but I see it as critical to our walk as believers, and frankly, extremely appropriate to the discussion.

As to my words being an indictment of the whole church, you are dead wrong. Only half of it. Which half we each fit into is for each one of us to figure out.

blessings,

Gids

 

[Josheb]

So if I am understanding you right, if He did hang out where sinners congregated, He would have been sinning?

Yes, but generally to places where they could come to him and not in any way that would either violate the laws of God (which included the Mosic code) or would imply support for their conduct (which is what the Jewish leaders inferred from Jesus' dining with Matthew). In other words, and I unnecessarily repeat myself, Jesus did not go sit in brothels and crack houses; he went to seashores and hill tops where sinful folks could gather and hear and receive and be healed.

Was this not what infuriated the religious of His day, that he did indeed do so?

No. Luke 6:45 was what infuriated them. Look it up.

Do you think Jesus was simply telling a nice story about the master being angry that the called were too busy with things of this world that he instead went after the imprisoned who longed in their hearts for freedom, real genuine freedom, those the religious folks of His day would never even be seen with, let alone helped?

Do you think it appropriate to hijack the op so you can either defend what is a minor error so that it is revealed to be a gross misunderstanding of much larger truths of scripture?

Jesus wasn't "simply" doing anything. No one here is "too busy" and if it is being insinuated anyone here is "too busy" then it is you who is closer to the infuriated religious "you who judge" than perhaps you are aware. This op is about whether addiction is sin or disease or both, not what real religious hypocrites or hypothetical parable angry men do or don't do.

Do you think addicts have no hope except to confess they will always be addicts, and dutifully go to 12 step meetings, with fear being the driving force to keep them clean?

Speaking as someone who lost ten years of his life to dependence of alcohol, other drugs, inappropriate contentography, sex, money, pride and anger... and speaking as a professional counselor who did 18 months of his internship in a residential drug treatment center and who now provides out-patient counseling support to those dependent on a variety of sinful choices and conduct the short answer to your question is,

No, I do not think addicts have no hope except to confess bondage and trade their dependence from one thing to a 12 Step program with or without fear.

The long answer is your question is a red herring and therefore not prompted by the Holy Spirit and if you and I are going to discuss this in a Christlike, maturing, and unifying manner (Eph. 4) then you need to ditch the defensiveness. Your op-reply has problems, not the least of which is its off-topic content.

I believe God's power bringing life more abundant trumps fear any day.

Yes, perfect love casts out fear (1 Jn. 4:8) and that which is not done in faith is sin (Rom. 14:23). Nothing I have posted should be in any way construed to say otherwise.

You are creating false dichotomies, Gideons300; there are more options than confessing bondage or 12 steps, or fear and judgmental churches. So, again, since the Holy Spirit does not argue fallaciously we - both you and I and all the readers - know this content is not Spirit prompted. The facts of reality is 1) God can do all things, 2) we can do oall things through His Son, and 3) God uses others here on earth to work out His plan in our lives.

That goes for addicts, too.

And in case you haven't figured it out, we are all addicts apart from Christ. The dependency is upon sin and every single one of us loves darkness (Jn. 3:20) and the thing we want to do we do not do and that which we do not want to do we do (Rom. 7).

If I am hijacking this thread, forgive me, but I see it as critical to our walk as believers, and frankly, extremely appropriate to the discussion.

Then explain to us how "you who judge," is relevant to the op? Provide warrant for indicting the entire body of Christ is op-relevant. Explain how hypothetical discussions of where Jesus would preach and teach in the 21st century is op-relevant when he is here in CF in this board right now preaching and teaching through us. Tell us how sitting on the precipice of eternity answers the question asked.

Don't say "forgive me," if you intend to continue in the same manner without warrant. That's disingenuous. It's not me who from whom forgiveness should sought (I take no offense personally in the digression, Gideons; I point out the digression for your benefit, healing, and reconciliation to the op and to the discussion). What is "it," exactly?

As to my words being an indictment of the whole church, you are dead wrong. Only half of it. Which half we each fit into is for each one of us to figure out.

Well, Gideons, you posted what you posted and what you posted stated, "Here is the deal. We are sitting at the precipice of eternity. God is calling His church to shake off our religious stupor and to seek Him with our WHOLE hearts," and the word "half" does not appear in your op-reply at all. According to you the church, not half of it, is in a religious stupor. According to you, the op-reply is written to those who judge other and according to your op-reply, one of those judges is you. The question is: is the op-reply's content rightful judging or not?

Digression is not right judgment.


So I invite you to take a few minutes and breathe. Think about hwat you want to say and the write it out. Then go through it and delete all the op-irrelevant content and post the rest.

This op is about answering the question "Is addiction a sin or a disease?" and my answer to that question is, "Yes, it is both," and I will correct any blatant errors I read so that those struggling with addictions in themselves or their loved ones do not get incorrect information. I trust everyone here will make a sincere effort to collaborate with that .

 

[Gideons300]

Yes, but generally to places where they could come to him and not in any way that would either violate the laws of God (which included the Mosic code) or would imply support for their conduct (which is what the Jewish leaders inferred from Jesus' dining with Matthew). In other words, and I unnecessarily repeat myself, Jesus did not go sit in brothels and crack houses; he went to seashores and hill tops where sinful folks could gather and hear and receive and be healed.

No. Luke 6:45 was what infuriated them. Look it up.

Do you think it appropriate to hijack the op so you can either defend what is a minor error so that it is revealed to be a gross misunderstanding of much larger truths of scripture?

Jesus wasn't "simply" doing anything. No one here is "too busy" and if it is being insinuated anyone here is "too busy" then it is you who is closer to the infuriated religious "you who judge" than perhaps you are aware. This op is about whether addiction is sin or disease or both, not what real religious hypocrites or hypothetical parable angry men do or don't do.

Speaking as someone who lost ten years of his life to dependence of alcohol, other drugs, inappropriate contentography, sex, money, pride and anger... and speaking as a professional counselor who did 18 months of his internship in a residential drug treatment center and who now provides out-patient counseling support to those dependent on a variety of sinful choices and conduct the short answer to your question is,

No, I do not think addicts have no hope except to confess bondage and trade their dependence from one thing to a 12 Step program with or without fear.

The long answer is your question is a red herring and therefore not prompted by the Holy Spirit and if you and I are going to discuss this in a Christlike, maturing, and unifying manner (Eph. 4) then you need to ditch the defensiveness. Your op-reply has problems, not the least of which is its off-topic content.

Yes, perfect love casts out fear (1 Jn. 4:8) and that which is not done in faith is sin (Rom. 14:23). Nothing I have posted should be in any way construed to say otherwise.

You are creating false dichotomies, Gideons300; there are more options than confessing bondage or 12 steps, or fear and judgmental churches. So, again, since the Holy Spirit does not argue fallaciously we - both you and I and all the readers - know this content is not Spirit prompted. The facts of reality is 1) God can do all things, 2) we can do oall things through His Son, and 3) God uses others here on earth to work out His plan in our lives.

That goes for addicts, too.

And in case you haven't figured it out, we are all addicts apart from Christ. The dependency is upon sin and every single one of us loves darkness (Jn. 3:20) and the thing we want to do we do not do and that which we do not want to do we do (Rom. 7).

Then explain to us how "you who judge," is relevant to the op? Provide warrant for indicting the entire body of Christ is op-relevant. Explain how hypothetical discussions of where Jesus would preach and teach in the 21st century is op-relevant when he is here in CF in this board right now preaching and teaching through us. Tell us how sitting on the precipice of eternity answers the question asked.

Don't say "forgive me," if you intend to continue in the same manner without warrant. That's disingenuous. It's not me who from whom forgiveness should sought (I take no offense personally in the digression, Gideons; I point out the digression for your benefit, healing, and reconciliation to the op and to the discussion). What is "it," exactly?

Well, Gideons, you posted what you posted and what you posted stated, "Here is the deal. We are sitting at the precipice of eternity. God is calling His church to shake off our religious stupor and to seek Him with our WHOLE hearts," and the word "half" does not appear in your op-reply at all. According to you the church, not half of it, is in a religious stupor. According to you, the op-reply is written to those who judge other and according to your op-reply, one of those judges is you. The question is: is the op-reply's content rightful judging or not?

Digression is not right judgment.


So I invite you to take a few minutes and breathe. Think about hwat you want to say and the write it out. Then go through it and delete all the op-irrelevant content and post the rest.

This op is about answering the question "Is addiction a sin or a disease?" and my answer to that question is, "Yes, it is both," and I will correct any blatant errors I read so that those struggling with addictions in themselves or their loved ones do not get incorrect information. I trust everyone here will make a sincere effort to collaborate with that .

I was in no way taking a swipe at the OP. There were a few posters who did in fact show little mercy to those addicted and my response was aimed at those who held such a viewpoint.Sorry if I was not clear.

However, there can be no doubt that the vast majority of the church is in sleep walking mode, with no heart for the things of God other than "say the prayer, go to church, go to Heaven". That mentality is not Christianity at all but a placebo that substitutes comfort for compassion, and leaves holiness as a "goal" only, one that is impossible to hit, so why lose sleep over it?

All things are about to be shaken, and anything not of Jesus will not endure. With it will go much of what we accept as "normal" Christianity. Dark days are ahead. There is one safe place to run, and that is into abiding in Christ.

As to addicts themselves, how many there are, the vast majority even of those desperate to gwt the devil off their backs, who find our current treatments simply unable to deliver them and set them free.

I am thankful for those who have gotten help like you, but we should be on our. knees seeking God for why they cannot find victory. Instead, to those who fail the traditional methods, we tell them that they simply were not serious about it, and wash our hands of it.

Jesus said that those who cry out WILL be delivered. Until it bothers us enough to cry out for the reason why they still struggle, and heck, for that matter, why we ourselves cannot seem to gain the victory over our 'smaller' sins,
we will continue on running religious laps in the wilderness instead of mounting up with wings as eagles as we have been promised.

God is not a liar. His promises work. It is high time we finally yielded fully and believe what He has clearly promised us, amen?

blessings,

Gids

 

[Josheb]

I was in no way taking a swipe at the OP. There were a few posters who did in fact show little mercy to those addicted and my response was aimed at those who held such a viewpoint.Sorry if I was not clear.

However, there can be no doubt that the vast majority of the church is in sleep walking mode, with no heart for the things of God other than "say the prayer, go to church, go to Heaven". That mentality is not Christianity at all but a placebo that substitutes comfort for compassion, and leaves holiness as a "goal" only, one that is impossible to hit, so why lose sleep over it?

All things are about to be shaken, and anything not of Jesus will not endure. With it will go much of what we accept as "normal" Christianity. Dark days are ahead. There is one safe place to run, and that is into abiding in Christ.

All of which has nothing to do with the inquiry of this Op (or at least has not been shown to have any such relevance). I note this post as as irrelevant and treat that content accordingly. All of that content is baseless (I see no evidence for the claims made) and therefore note that content for what it is (baseless) and then ignore it accordingly. I remind you of Luke 6:45 that informs us that such content comes from within, the impetus is not "a few posters who did in fact show little mercy."

They're baiting us, Gids. Ignore them or put that dross back in their own laps. This op is about addiction as sin or disease (or both).

As to addicts themselves, how many there are, the vast majority even of those desperate to gwt the devil off their backs, who find our current treatments simply unable to deliver them and set them free.

I don't know but I know indicting others is not an answer to this op' inquiry. I could look up the stats but that's not going to answer this op's inquiry. It is a digression.

I am thankful for those who have gotten help like you, but we should be on our knees seeking God for why they cannot find victory. Instead, to those who fail the traditional methods, we tell them that they simply were not serious about it, and wash our hands of it.

Thanks for the thanks, the appreciation is appreciated but being on one's knees and "traditional methods" are not mutually exclusive conditions. Furthermore, the op isn't asking for a treatment plan. The op is simply asking if addiction is a sin or a disease or both.

A plain and simple reading of the epistolary informs us many people in the ekklesia were not healed instantly. The NT-era ekklesia was a mess and for the most part all those sinful people were treated as if they were nonetheless truly Christians.

Immature, not asleep or lacking belief nor failing at prayer. Immature.

Jesus said that those who cry out WILL be delivered.

And yet many cry out and are not healed. Jesus was not teaching magic faith, nor is it appropriate to treat his teaching with legalism.

Until it bothers us enough to cry out for the reason why they still struggle, and heck, for that matter, why we ourselves cannot seem to gain the victory over our 'smaller' sins, we will continue on running religious laps in the wilderness instead of mounting up with wings as eagles as we have been promised.

(josh purses lips with curious incredulity) Would you mind citing the person in scripture who reached perfect victory in all areas of life on this side of the grave?

God is not a liar. His promises work. It is high time we finally yielded fully and believe what He has clearly promised us, amen?

And how does that answer the question, "Is addiction a sin or a disease?" because I read repeated apologies for off-topic content but then read more off-topic content.

It sounds very addicted to me.

Which makes me wonder 1) have you been on your knees, and 2) if so why hasn't it worked?





Ignore all that and let me try this:

1) Define "the church" (the ekklesia) as the Bible defines the term.

2) The first half of Ephesians 4 tells us Jesus provided certain people in given roles for a specific set of purposes or goals. While I do not believe that list is exhaustive, do you find those roles applicable everyone according to the text?

3) Is an addicts addiction limited to the addict?

Understand these inquiries op-relevantly, please.

 

[aiki]

You can take this or leave it, you who judge, but if Jesus returned today as He first came, He would most likely not be found in a suit looking spiritual and pleasing to God on Sunday mornings.

I don't think you can know, really, what Jesus would be wearing were he to show up today. There is nothing intrinsically holy about not wearing a suit. And as far as "pleasing to God" goes, Jesus would behave just as Scripture directs us all to behave but he'd do so perfectly. Being such sin-prone creatures, I don't think any of us can quite imagine what that would look like.

Do you know where He would be? Most likely downtown amongst the addicted sinners.... alcoholics, meth heads, coke harlots, heroin addicts, sexual addicts, you know, the rejects of society, the ones most in the church silently think "Do not come near me, lest you taint me with your sin".

This sounds, I don't know...cool, I guess, to say, but Jesus did not neglect to teach in the Jewish synagogues as he ministered to the lost. (Matthew 4:23; Matthew 9:35; Matthew 12:9; Matthew 13:54, etc.) He was concerned for the lost in and outside of the religious world. So, I don't think Jesus would be "most likely" downtown among all the trouble folk you mentioned. If he acted as he did in the Gospels, he'd go to all the lost outside and inside the Church.

Guys, we are supposed to possess the FREE INDEED Jesus promised us. The only problem is, we do not have a clue how to be set free, so because we can only give away what we possess, those poor lost hopeless souls down under the bridge are not beating down our doors to "get what we got".

Have you actually gone to those "under the bridge" and offered to them the saving gift of freedom in Christ? I have. They weren't interested. No promise of a life of victory in Christ could move those I've met toward salvation. Some of them were as hard and miserable as the worst hypocrite asleep in the back row at church on Sunday morning. What you're saying, then, is not borne out in my experience. I have known the freedom of life in Christ and experience the victory of the crucified life as often as I am careful to live in surrender to God. But this did not move the lost "under the bridge" with whom I've interacted many times one iota.

Can Jesus deliver what He most clearly promised us? Well, if not, He is a liar. So here is the thing, you who smugly judge those who cannot extricate themselves from the grip of the enemy. How are you doing with your lust? Your pride? Your love of things in the world we are told to flee from? If you cannot get freed from the grip of your "small" sins, perhaps you might find compassion in your heart for those less fortunate than you.

Agreed. But the man who says to another, "Stop being so judgmental! It's wrong!" has, in doing so, just been judgmental himself. Interesting how that works, eh?

NO sin is too hard for God to deliver a man or woman from, if they long for it and hate the wretched man they have become.

Amen! But even the desire to be free of sin is God's doing (Philippians 2:13). He begins to work to move us out of bondage to sin when we have no desire whatever to be free of it. It's a good thing, too, that He does. If our freedom from sin was contingent upon our resolve and desire to be free of it, we'd never be free.

The next revival.... the LAST revival, will occur outside the church, where God will be found compelling.... COMPELLING them to enter into His rest.

Not sure where you get this from, Gideon...

But these experiences have led me to see what I share here. There is no sin, none, that will stand a chance when God rolls up His sleeves to show what He can do for those whose hearts are right towards Him.

But, Gideon, this is to put the onus for a man's freedom upon himself rather than God. God's word tells us, though, that apart from God, we cannot even desire to be free (Ephesians 2:1-3; Titus 3:3; 2 Corinthians 4:4). Our hearts can only "be right toward Him" if He has first worked to make our hearts so. The answer to being free from sin, then, isn't to make ourselves the sort of person God will bring to freedom but to cry out to Him in our weakness, need, failure and rebellion to do so and wait in patient dependence upon Him 'til He does.

John 8:36
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.

Philippians 1:6
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he who has begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 Faithful is he who calls you, who also will do it.

John 6:44
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which has sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 15:5
5 I am the vine, you are the branches: He who abides in me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit: for without me you can do nothing.

 

[messianist]

What part of Scripture is that in, where we are instructed to be judgmental of each other, to pick motes out of each others' eyes? Could you direct me to that? Thank you.

1 corinthians 2:15

 

[messianist]

Those who judge others are under judgement.

The spiritual man judge all things

 

[messianist]

I think addiction is both sin and disease of the mind. Remember they called Jesus "The Great Physician", and He heals in some very amazing ways.

“When Jesus heard it, he said to them, ‘Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners’ ”
Mark 2:15-17

Whenever an act rises to the level of addiction then it becomes a sin in that the object of your addiction becomes higher or more important than God in your heart and life. In that manner it becomes an idol, and something your putting in the place in your life that belongs to God - God should always have primacy in your heart, mind and soul.

It's also something you can't control, because your in bondage to it - hence why we call it addiction - so it's not the same as what you may do happily and joyfully. Most addicts beat themselves up, usually literally hating the object of their addiction because of its control over their lives.

Therefore addiction will likely not get in the middle of (or prevent) a believers salvation. You can be truly saved, working toward your salvation and falter with various sins or issues.

John Piper did a little Q&A about willful sin and those passages in Hebrews. It's good to listen to (or read, as you can also read the transcript) because He shows you two categories of sins and sinning.

How Does ‘Willful Sinning’ Threaten My Salvation?

Those done joyfully and those done begrudgingly. it's very well explained and I enjoyed the teaching. I'm sure you could benefit from it too.

I smoked for 32 years, (totally addicted) and while it took some time after I was saved I was finally able to break the addiction. But, if I should falter and fall, all I need to do is get back up again, through the help of Christ..

This life is a trial and we didn't all come to Christ free of addiction. But, through Christ I do believe there is hope... as Jesus said, through Him we are free indeed.

Its more a matter of truly believing that, believing in His power to set you free from the bondage of sin, from my own experience.

It's a hard road for some, but with faith in Christ we have the ability to overcome.

The spiritual man judge all things

 

[Strong in Him]

The spiritual man judge all things

That's not what Jesus said; he said that if we judge, we will be judged in the same way.
We are not God; we do not know enough about people, their inner pain and their motives to comment on why they do something. Neither are we perfect and have no right to condemn them - teaching about logs and splinters comes to mind.

 

[messianist]

That's not what Jesus said; he said that if we judge, we will be judged in the same way.
We are not God; we do not know enough about people, their inner pain and their motives to comment on why they do something. Neither are we perfect and have no right to condemn them - teaching about logs and splinters comes to mind.

That scripture is in the bible.

 

[messianist]

That scripture is in the bible.

I wasn't condemning anyone just pointed out what that word meant.

 

[messianist]

That's not what Jesus said; he said that if we judge, we will be judged in the same way.
We are not God; we do not know enough about people, their inner pain and their motives to comment on why they do something. Neither are we perfect and have no right to condemn them - teaching about logs and splinters comes to mind.

You mid under stand the scripture you are pointing out to me

 

[Cis.jd]

Is addiction a sin or a disease? Maybe both? Curious as to what people think about this topic.

Both. Scientifically they are hereditary however the church also teaches this. Sins can be passed down.

Some people are born with that chemical imbalance that makes them addicted to things easily. For example, people who are depressed (something that is also passed down) lack a normal amount of serotonin in the brain.

 

[Strong in Him]

You mid under stand the scripture you are pointing out to me

I referred to 2 Scriptures; which do you mean?

 

[messianist]

I referred to 2 Scriptures; which do you mean?

where you referred to judging.

 

[carp614]

In my case, addiction has been sin. When addiction is elevated in importance above all other earthy and spiritual matters, it becomes an idol.

Addiction to alcohol & drugs, inappropriate contentography, gaming, nicotine, and other things have had the same characteristic in my life. At times in my life, they have all been more important than serving the Lord and serving others.

Is addiction disease? To me, the answer directly depends on the impact the answer has on the addict. I think it helps some people recover when they think of their problem as a disease. Others are hindered in their recovery by the notion of addiction as a disease. It becomes an excuse for them to continue in their addiction. An excuse for failure to stay sober.

Overall, thinking of addiction as a disease has not helped me stay sober. Knowing that God did not making me to be an addict...that has helped.