Adam and Eve

[water_ripple]

I do not know if this has been dicussed before, but I've been wrestling with this question for a time now. In the beginning when God created Adam and Eve they had two sons (Cain and Able). When they grew up the sons took wives. Where did these wives come from?

I've my own theories on this. I think that since the Jews are God's chosen people that He created Adam and Eve Jewish. In the bible many times when God gives His people ways to glorify and please Him, He mentions that the heathens do not do it this way. But, on the same side He tells His people to try and lead the heathens to Him. Anway, is it possible that the wives of Cain and Able were "heathens". Or did they intermarry? Or were Adam and Eve created in a spiritual sense living in the site of God until they commited a sin? I would greatly appreciate biblical references, and if I completely off here please help.

Thanx a bunch.

 

[Newlyfoundheart17]

Yea I would really like someone who knows what their talking about to answer this cause I have had the same question but felt like a moron for asking

 

[Vance]

Yes, this is a tough one, and there have been a few different theories put out on it. It seems clear to me that a plain reading of the text would indicate that there were, indeed, other humans living on the Earth at the time Cain murdered Abel. But we need not always consider the plain reading if there is a good reason not to. Here are the theories I have heard so far:

1. God created Adam and Eve first, but He may have created other humans afterwards. This would require Eve to be the "spiritual" mother of all humans, not the physical mother.

2. Another theory is that Adam and Eve weren't even the first humans by species, but a selected pair chosen to be the first Humans in the sense of having a relationship with God. This requires reading much of the text allegorically, not literally. One support for this would be that the word "Adam" simply means "man".

3. Another theory is that Cain married his sister. The text does say that Adam and Eve had other children and, if you believe in the long lives and can read large enough gaps into the story then you can arrive at Cain having a choice of sisters to marry. This would also require that all these children and the necessary generations had passed BEFORE the murder of Abel, since Cain worries right after the murder that if he is sent wandering with a mark, those who see him will kill him. He would not be worried about this if it was just Adam, Eve, Cain, and maybe Seth.

It is unlikely that this issue will ever be resolved fully.

 

[Saint Philip]

I do not know if this has been dicussed before, but I've been wrestling with this question for a time now. In the beginning when God created Adam and Eve they had two sons (Cain and Able). When they grew up the sons took wives. Where did these wives come from?

"After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters." Gen 5-4

I think that since the Jews are God's chosen people

Christians are God's chosen people. "But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light." 1 Peter 2:9. "Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience." Colossians 3:12.

Incidently, Christians are the true Israel, anyone else making that claim is the antichrist. But, this is not the place for that theological discussion.

that He created Adam and Eve Jewish

Adam and Eve are the blood parents of the entire human race. Blood Jews are merely the children of one dead guy and merely one of the twelve tribes of the old Israel (then the Jews were separated from Israel, forming Judea, then the Jews went to war against Israel...).

In Vance's theology, some races of people are subhuman. In any case, his claims are contrary to the Bible.

 

[Ark Guy]

They married their sisters....in that time and age, what was wrong with that?

The genes at that time would have still been nearly perfect with near zero chance for birth defects.....unlike later on.

It wasn't untill this later on time that God announced that this practice of marrying a sister and brother together was not in his wishes.

 

[Saint Philip]

The genes at that time would have still been nearly perfect with near zero chance for birth defects.....unlike later on.

Right. Adam and Eve started with defect-free DNA. Given that Devolution is the Law of nature (Evolution isn't even a theory), mutations damaged the quality of the DNA over generations. Many of these degenerative mutations are recessive so it takes two people with the same defect, like siblings, having children for the defect to manifest itself. Indeed, contrary to the prediction of Evolution, the number of defects in human (and animal) DNA is increasing. This is called the genetic load. But, according to the prediction of Creation, there is no problem with Adam and Eve's children marrying each other. The writers of the creation account could not have known that on their own.

 

[Alessandro]

Adam and Eve had other children.

 

[lucaspa]

They married their sisters....in that time and age, what was wrong with that?

The problem with this is that you have to give up a plain or literal reading. THe verse where it says Adam and Eve had daughters comes after Cain is married (he married before Seth was born) and Seth is married. Now, unless Biblical chronology is all wrong (which calls into doubt the chronology in Genesis 1), then the daughters were born after Cain and Seth married.

The genes at that time would have still been nearly perfect with near zero chance for birth defects.....unlike later on.

Biblical verse? I ask because Biblical literalists always want a verse saying "evolution". Well, what is the verse saying "genes"? Sauce for the goose. If evolution can't be considered because it is not in the Bible, then this idea of no harm from incest can't be considered because it is not in the Bible either. No where does it say the genes were "perfect" (or mention genes at all).

It wasn't untill this later on time that God announced that this practice of marrying a sister and brother together was not in his wishes.

So if God didn't mention it, it was permitted? That blows Malaka's idea that God is immutable out of the water. This says plainly that God can change.

 

[lucaspa]

But, according to the prediction of Creation, there is no problem with Adam and Eve's children marrying each other. The writers of the creation account could not have known that on their own.

Where do the writers of the creation account say Cain and Seth married their sisters? Where does it say it is OK to marry your sister? You are taking silence on the subject as saying it is there. Yet you will not take silence on the subject of evolution as saying it can be there.

It looks to me like you are putting a lot of words and ideas into the Bible that are not there.

Can you say "inconsistent"?

 

[lucaspa]

I do not know if this has been dicussed before, but I've been wrestling with this question for a time now. In the beginning when God created Adam and Eve they had two sons (Cain and Able). When they grew up the sons took wives. Where did these wives come from?

I've my own theories on this. I think that since the Jews are God's chosen people that He created Adam and Eve Jewish. In the bible many times when God gives His people ways to glorify and please Him, He mentions that the heathens do not do it this way. But, on the same side He tells His people to try and lead the heathens to Him. Anway, is it possible that the wives of Cain and Able were "heathens". Or did they intermarry? Or were Adam and Eve created in a spiritual sense living in the site of God until they commited a sin? I would greatly appreciate biblical references, and if I completely off here please help.

Thanx a bunch.

There is no good answer. A literal reading of the text has all kinds of problems. I pointed out some in other posts. This was one of the issues that Clarence Darrow really nailed William Jennings Bryan on in the Scopes Trial. Bryan didn't have an answer that would fit within literalism.

Your idea -- that Adam and Eve were the first JEWISH humans -- has long been one in Judaism. Cain and Seth simply found wives from the non-Jewish people (since incest is a sin). That idea, of course, goes against a literal reading.

Let me suggest another interpretation:

Adam, Eve, Cain, and Seth were not real people. What we have are theological stories dressed up as history. So let's look for the theological messages.

1. Adam and Eve tell us that we (you and I) disobey God and are therefore cut off from Him. Adam and Eve are archetypes for each and every one of us.

2. Cain and Abel are also archetypes: for sibling rivalry and for the tensions between farmers and herder. Cain symbolizes the tendency and ability for violence in each of us. Also, murder is wrong. For Cain it was a literal brother, but the symbolism is clear: everyone is our brother(/sister) and we should take care of them. "Am I my brother's keeper?" The obvious answer is YES, you are. Cain's punishment symbolizes that murderers are not part of society and must live apart. Perhaps the fact that God did not kill Cain means that God does not approve of capital punishment, that taking a life for a life is not the answer. By the account, Cain lived a productive life after the murder.

3. Seth symbolizes that life goes on. Adam and Eve suffer the overwhelming tragedy of losing two sons: one to murder and the other to exile. Yet they invest in hope and have another son ("to replace Cain"). In a primitive society, at least half of children die from disease or trauma. For the people at the time Genesis was told, it was supremely important that they go on in the face of such tragedies. That Seth's life did turn out OK is the happy ending.

Anyway, something for you to consider.

 

[Ark Guy]

To be honest...no one really knows...but the marrying to their sisters is possible and probable.

 

[Vance]

To be honest...no one really knows...but the marrying to their sisters is possible and probable.

Arkguy, I am actually very impressed with the fact that you acknowledge that we can not know the answer to this. I am pleasantly surprised, and I mean that.

 

[Ark Guy]

There is a lot we don't know about. The question is, is it feasable? Is it possible? Could ithave happened this way?


Evos like to present this kind of nonsense as if it's impossible....like this issue, the evos stand corrected rather quickly.

 

[wblastyn]

Evos like to present this kind of nonsense as if it's impossible....like this issue, the evos stand corrected rather quickly.

Weren't you the one who was corrected? You said Adam and Eve married their sisters and it was pointed out to you that the Bible does not say that.

 

[panterapat]

IMO, Adam and Eve were the first humans made in "God's image". Thus they had souls. There may have been other "people" on earth who had not been infused with souls.

 

[Ark Guy]

No, the bible says Adam and Eve were the first Humans...Now it doesn't say that directly, but the context surely says it.

God made "man" from the dust..his name was Adam.

 

[Ark Guy]

Then from Adams side (rib) he formed woman...her name was Eve.

Now if you can show me a scripture that even hints at the possibiity of a pre-human soulless race, then lets see it.

 

[wblastyn]

Then from Adams side (rib) he formed woman...her name was Eve.

Now if you can show me a scripture that even hints at the possibiity of a pre-human soulless race, then lets see it.

Oh but Genesis 1 says God spoke man and woman into existance at the same time. So which one is it?

 

[Ark Guy]

No it doesn't...

GEN 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

Genesis 1:7 say he created him...then continues saying that he created them. This doesn't sound like they were created at the same instance.

Besides, when the second account....which is a more detailed account...is brought into view, it becomes more than obvious that the creation of Adam and Eve were seperate events.

AND... when you read the New Testament it also tells us the creation of dam and Eve were seperate events..

1TI 2:13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.

You need to deny a lot of biblical scripture to support your same moment concept wblastyn

 

[Vance]

Arkguy:

I agree that there is a lot we do not know, but I disagree with your asessment of which group is less open to the various possibilities. True atheistic evolutionists cut themselves off from a wide spectrum of possibilities. But the YEC cuts himself off from the other side of the equation. I am an evolutionist in that I believe that God used evolution (or something very similar to how it is currently described) to create most of the diverse life on this Earth, and that He did so over the billions of years that is shown by the evidence of His Creation. I am a Creationist in that I also believe that God could have, and in the case of Man very likely did, engage in specific special creations.

Now, as for Adam and Eve, you agree that the Bible does not explicitly state that Adam and Eve were the first and only humans at the time they were "created", but then you state that the "implication" is there. I think we must always be careful about reading things into the Scripture to fit a preconceived idea. Keep in mind that the Bible is equally silent on who Cain could have married, but it is definitely true that the "implication" from the strict text is that there *were* a large number of people on the Earth at the time of the murder, and that this murder took place before Adam and Eve had other children.

If you are going to be selective over which "implication" you are going to follow, you could accept one and not the other or the other and not the one. But you can't accept one implication, but then say it is improper to accept an implication somewhere else.