Adam and Eve and The Garden of Eden, "You shall not touch it, lest you die"...

Neogaia777

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There is danger in handling Scripture this way though, forcing explanations where one isn't given or necessary. Adam sinned, going against God's command. That's that. If we try and force a hypothesis or explanation for everything in Scripture where one is not provided, we veer away from the truth and purpose.

I'm not in the habit of doing that trust me...

But Scripture clearly says Adam was not deceived though...

Even if Adam did so out of love for Eve, he disobeyed God. And if Adam did this because he loved Eve and wanted to be a sinner with her, then he was deceived by "his love" for Eve.

Scripture says He wasn't...

And why would you think he was or had to be if he did out of his love for Eve anyway...?

Doesn't have to mean he was deceived at all, and can very much mean quite the opposite actually...

And, again, besides that, Scripture says he was not, etc... and Eve was, etc...

You see what endless loophole we can get ourselves into? It's not healthy or proper handling of Scripture to squeeze ideas in.

I don't see us doing that, but, whatever my man.... I see us getting closer to the truth is all... Were combining scripture with scripture after all...

God Bless!
 
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Yahkov

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I'm not in the habit of doing that trust me...

But Scripture clearly says Adam was not deceived though...



Scripture says He wasn't...

And why would you think he was or had to be if he did out of his love for Eve anyway...?

Doesn't have to mean he was deceived at all, and can very much mean quite the opposite actually...

And, again, besides that, Scripture says he was not, etc... and Eve was, etc...



I don't see us doing that, but, whatever my man.... I see us getting closer to the truth is all... Were combining scripture with scripture after all...

God Bless!

I don't think Adam was deceived because Scripture says so. I am not entertaining the idea that he disobeyed because of "love".

How much closer could you get to the truth? Why does this have to be some sort of investigation? Adam was not deceived, Eve was deceived, they both disobeyed, Adam's motive is not provided (whatever the reason, it's not justifiable), case closed.
 
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Neogaia777

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I don't think Adam was deceived because Scripture says so. I am not entertaining the idea that he disobeyed because of "love".

How much closer could you get to the truth? Why does this have to be some sort of investigation? Adam was not deceived, Eve was deceived, they both disobeyed, Adam's motive is not provided (whatever the reason, it's not justifiable), case closed.
Adam deceived Eve, so in part, it was his own fault,... Adam created the opening for the serpent to deceive Eve, but he tried the blame God for it, etc...

Many think this is this/the/is a truth that "is revealed to us in scripture", case closed...

And it rings true in humanity with certain husbands and their wives as well, especially today, especially in times past when there was about to be the end of an age, case closed...

Many also think it might be a reflection of what Christ did for his bride or us, the church, also, case closed...

Called the second or last Adam, etc, case closed...

God Bless!
 
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Yahkov

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Adam deceived Eve, so in part, it was his own fault,... Adam created the opening for the serpent to deceive Eve, but he tried the blame God for it, etc...

Many think this is this/the/is a truth that "is revealed to us in scripture", case closed...

And it rings true in humanity with certain husbands and their wives as well, especially today, especially in times past when there was about to be the end of an age, case closed...

Many also think it might be a reflection of what Christ did for his bride or us, the church, also, case closed...

Called the second or last Adam, etc, case closed...

God Bless!

Adam deceived Eve? You are the first person I have witnessed mention something like that.

What was a reflection of what Christ did for his bride or us?
 
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Neogaia777

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Adam deceived Eve? You are the first person I have witnessed mention something like that.

Adam was not exact in telling her exactly what God said or commanded about the tree and it's fruit, which created an opening for the serpent to deceive her or trick her... Adam also knew the serpent fully and knew it was by that tree, and failed to tell Eve about it or all about all of it's ways, which Adam knew fully, was not deceived, etc...

(review some of the posts in this thread, and start at the beginning, because most of this has already been addressed and talked about/brought up in this thread and answered already for the most part as well)...

What was a reflection of what Christ did for his bride or us?

What Adam did for Eve... Only Jesus actually died for it or us, etc... Jesus obeyed by dying, and submitting himself to death for us, whereas Adam did not die physically or willingly, or willingly lay down his life for her or us at that time, etc... Adam died of course, but it was not willingly or by willingly laying his life down or submitting himself unto death for her or us, etc... Jesus did that...

Jesus also obeyed by telling us the truth also, something Adam did not do with us or Eve, etc, and Jesus obeyed in many other ways that were different from Adam, but He was like Adam, or was a "likeness" of Adam... And the church, or us, Eve...

Again, review the thread please...
 
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Yahkov

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Adam was not exact in telling her exactly what God said or commanded about the tree and it's fruit, which created an opening for the serpent to deceive her or trick her... Adam also knew the serpent fully and knew it was by that tree, and failed to tell Eve about it or all about all of it's ways, which Adam knew fully, was not deceived, etc...

(review some of the posts in this thread, and start at the beginning, because most of this has already been addressed and talked about/brought up in this thread and answered already for the most part as well)...



What Adam did for Eve... Only Jesus actually died for it or us, etc... Jesus obeyed by dying, and submitting himself to death for us, whereas Adam did not die physically or willingly, or willingly lay down his life for her or us at that time, etc... Adam died of course, but it was not willingly or by willingly laying his life down or submitting himself unto death for her or us, etc... Jesus did that...

Again, review the thread please...

See this is exactly what I mean why it's not a good idea to squeeze our own ideas into Scripture. Eve knew she wasn't suppose to eat from the tree.

"And the woman said to the serpent, "We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, but God said, 'You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.'" - Genesis 3:2-3

The same warning God gave Adam is the same warning Eve told the serpent.

"And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."" - Genesis 2:16-17

What did Adam do for Eve that we see this "reflection" between him and Christ? I'd have to accept that Adam decided to disobey to be with Eve to even consider this, which would still fall short of a proper reflection. This idea of "Adam's sacrifice" cannot be asserted with confidence, Biblically. Sin entered the world through Adam. Christ died for sinners. That's a contrast. Adam was not like Christ and Christ was not like Adam.

You are reading into this way too much.
 
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Neogaia777

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See this is exactly what I mean why it's not a good idea to squeeze our own ideas into Scripture. Eve knew she wasn't suppose to eat from the tree.

"And the woman said to the serpent, "We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, but God said, 'You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.'" - Genesis 3:2-3

The same warning God gave Adam is the same warning Eve told the serpent.

"And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."" - Genesis 2:16-17

What did Adam do for Eve that we see this "reflection" between him and Christ? I'd have to accept that Adam decided to disobey to be with Eve to even consider this, which would still fall short of a proper reflection. This idea of "Adam's sacrifice" cannot be asserted with confidence, Biblically. Sin entered the world through Adam. Christ died for sinners. That's a contrast. Adam was not like Christ and Christ was not like Adam.
God's command about the tree was not to eat from it or you would die, but Adam added to it, saying you shall not even touch it or you will die, to Eve, etc... Created an opening for the serpent, etc... Deceived her, etc...

Again, review the thread please... Most of this has been gone into and talked about already...

God Bless!
 
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Yahkov

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God's command about the tree was not to eat from it or you would die, but Adam added to it, saying you shall not even touch it or you will die, to Eve, etc... Created an opening for the serpent, etc... Deceived her, etc...

Again, review the thread please... Most of this has been gone into and talked about already...

God Bless!

If Adam told Eve to not even touch it, that makes it all the more cautionary. Not more of an opening for deceit. Further, we don't even know if Adam told her this or if God told her this. That's another assumption we are trying to make here. After all, she told the serpent what God said, not what Adam said.
 
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Neogaia777

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See this is exactly what I mean why it's not a good idea to squeeze our own ideas into Scripture. Eve knew she wasn't suppose to eat from the tree.

"And the woman said to the serpent, "We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, but God said, 'You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.'" - Genesis 3:2-3

The same warning God gave Adam is the same warning Eve told the serpent.

"And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."" - Genesis 2:16-17

What did Adam do for Eve that we see this "reflection" between him and Christ? I'd have to accept that Adam decided to disobey to be with Eve to even consider this, which would still fall short of a proper reflection. This idea of "Adam's sacrifice" cannot be asserted with confidence, Biblically. Sin entered the world through Adam. Christ died for sinners. That's a contrast. Adam was not like Christ and Christ was not like Adam.

You are reading into this way too much.
Oh and, BTW, some completely and totally miss the obvious by not reading, or reading into scripture at all...

God Bless!
 
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Yahkov

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Oh and, BTW, some completely and totally miss the obvious by not reading, or reading into scripture at all...

God Bless!

What's the obvious here? Saying Adam ate with Eve out of "love" is an assumption. Saying Adam knew the serpent and failed to warn Eve is an assumption. Saying Adam did not properly pass on the command to Eve is an assumption. Saying Adam passed on the commandment to Eve in itself is an assumption. Saying Adam did not tell Eve the truth is an assumption. Sounds like to me you are painting a picture of Adam as an arrogant sinner before the fall even happened.
 
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Neogaia777

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If Adam told Eve to not even touch it, that makes it all the more cautionary. Not more of an opening for deceit. Further, we don't even know if Adam told her this or if God told her this. That's another assumption we are trying to make here. After all, she told the serpent what God said, not what Adam said.
No, it is never right to misquote God, ever... And God does not misquote Himself either...

Adam did not tell her the exact words of God which deceived her and opened up a way for the serpent to deceive her also...

Part of Adam's Job was to represent God to Eve, (also a Christophany) (anyway) it is assumed by most that God did not speak to Eve directly, like He did with Adam...

If she would have told the serpent what God said, she would have done so exactly, and not have gotten it wrong or misquoted Him, which lends even more creedence (or evidence) to the theory that she was told it by Adam, and not by God, etc...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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What's the obvious here? Saying Adam ate with Eve out of "love" is an assumption. Saying Adam knew the serpent and failed to warn Eve is an assumption. Saying Adam passed on the command to Eve is an assumption. Saying Adam did not tell Eve the truth is an assumption. Sounds like to me you are painting a picture of Adam as an arrogant sinner before the fall even happened.
You missed that there was an actual command or words of God about the tree and it's fruit, or the one Adam knew and was told by God, and the one Eve knew or quoted that was not exact, or was the exact words of God... You didn't even seem to know, even though you quoted both scriptures yourself...?

That's what I meant by missing the obvious...

God Bless!
 
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Yahkov

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You missed that there was an actual command or words of God about the tree and it's fruit, or the one Adam knew and was told by God, and the one Eve knew or quoted that was not exact, or was the exact words of God... You didn't even seem to know, even though you quoted both scriptures yourself...?

That's what I meant by missing the obvious...

God Bless!

What is obvious is the fall never even happened up to this point. Sin hasn't even entered into the world yet somehow Adam and Eve failed to get right God's one and only command here?
 
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Neogaia777

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What is obvious is the fall never even happened up to this point. Sin hasn't even entered into the world yet somehow Adam and Eve failed to get right God's one and only command here?
There is no sin where there is no law, or knowledge of sin...

They only became aware of the sin after they ate the fruit, after Adam did specifically... Then both of them were filled with the knowledge of sin, or the knowledge of their transgression(s) or error's, and sin in the future, etc, died in spirit, etc...

People have postulated in this thread that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil represents the law...

You'd know that if you'd review the thread...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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There is no sin where there is no law, or knowledge of sin...

They only became aware of the sin after they ate the fruit, after Adam did specifically... Then both of them were filled with the knowledge of sin, or the knowledge of their transgression(s) or error's, and sin in the future, etc, died in spirit, etc...

People have postulated in this thread that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil represents the law...

You'd know that if you'd review the thread...

God Bless!
You'd almost think that would mean that Adam had to have been deceived in some small way or measure as well, but scripture says he wasn't so...

He would had have to have been deceived by God, which I do not believe... Somehow Adam knew and was not deceived, and Eve was...

And it started with Adam's misquoting God's words to Eve...

God Bless!
 
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Yahkov

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There is no sin where there is no law, or knowledge of sin...

They only became aware of the sin after they ate the fruit, after Adam did specifically... Then both of them were filled with the knowledge of sin, or the knowledge of their transgression(s) or error's, and sin in the future, etc, died in spirit, etc...

People have postulated in this thread that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil represents the law...

You'd know that if you'd review the thread...

God Bless!

I reviewed the thread, and I am not treating what others say here as I do Scripture.

We keep bringing up what's obvious, and it's obvious that there was a command about this tree that both Adam and Eve knew about. It is obvious that disobedience to this command held consequences which they were also aware of. That was the one law that they were given. The beauty in the story is God gave them an opportunity to obey. They didn't.
 
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Yahkov

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You'd almost think that would mean that Adam had to have been deceived in some small way or measure as well, but scripture says he wasn't so...

He would had have to have been deceived by God, which I do not believe... Somehow Adam knew and was not deceived, and Eve was...

And it started with Adam's misquoting God's words to Eve...

God Bless!

If what you are saying is true that Adam misquoted God, then it sounds like to me Adam was the first sinner. Literally this is where a lot of what you are saying starts to fall apart. It's a lot of talk of what Adam failed to do, how Adam paved this perfect path for the serpent to deceive Eve. Why can't it simply be Eve was deceived by the serpent, period end of story, just as the Bible describes?
 
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Neogaia777

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I reviewed the thread, and I am not treating what others say here as I do Scripture.

We keep bringing up what's obvious, and it's obvious that there was a command about this tree that both Adam and Eve knew about.

That Adam and Eve knew and understood differently about...

It is obvious that disobedience to this command held consequences which they were also aware of.

Maybe in a general way, but they did not actually know what sin and/or death was yet, or at least Adam may have known more about it than Eve, but how much did they actually really know about it, is still in question and remains to be seen...?

That was the one law that they were given.

You know what they say about rules or laws, even one simple one, rules/laws are made to be broken...

The beauty in the story is God gave them an opportunity to obey. They didn't.

Maybe they could have obeyed it forever, maybe they couldn't, who knows really...?

All I know is Christ fixed it all, and reversed it all, being the second and far superior Adam...

Everything Adam did wrong, Christ did right...

But it does not seem to be fixed or reversed yet, not for the world anyway, but maybe in and for a future time maybe...?

But maybe it can be fixed for certain individuals right now, or in times past who have had, or do, or will, or would have, a real true genuine faith belief in Jesus Christ, etc...

God Bless!
 
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Yahkov

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That Adam and Eve knew and understood differently about...



Maybe in a general way, but they did not actually know what sin and/or death was yet, or at least Adam may have known more about it than Eve, but how much did they actually really know about it, is still in question and remains to be seen...?



You know what they say about rules or laws, even one simple one, rules/laws are made to be broken...



Maybe they could have obeyed it forever, maybe they couldn't, who knows really...?

All I know is Christ fixed it all, and reversed it all, being the second and far superior Adam...

Everything Adam did wrong, Christ did right...

But it does not seem to be fixed or reversed yet, not for the world anyway, but maybe in and for a future time maybe...?

But maybe it can be fixed for certain individuals right now, or in times past who have had, or do, or will, or would have, a real true genuine faith belief in Jesus Christ, etc...

God Bless!

Adam and Eve both knew clearly that you do not eat of the tree, because God said so. The serpent wasn't concerned over the touching of the tree, the serpent was concerned over eating of the tree. Neither Adam or Eve are innocent in the story. And how would Adam know more about death than Eve? This is yet another assumption.

I am not inclined to believe God gave them a law so they can break it.

We can contemplate what they could or could not do, but what matters is what already happened: they disobeyed.

What you said: "is still in question and remains to be seen" is good. Leave it there and don't give truth to any of these answers you are giving to these questions. They are assumptions and have no Biblical validity to them.
 
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Neogaia777

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If what you are saying is true that Adam misquoted God, then it sounds like to me Adam was the first sinner. Literally this is where a lot of what you are saying starts to fall apart. It's a lot of talk of what Adam failed to do, how Adam paved this perfect path for the serpent to deceive Eve. Why can't it simply be Eve was deceived by the serpent, period end of story, just as the Bible describes?
Because the Bible itself tells us what God told Adam, which was different from what Eve knew, and there is "no getting around that" because it is in scripture... and it says Adam was not deceived but that Eve was, and there is no getting around that either, because that is in scripture also... so, it is not my view or interpretation that starts to fall apart or fails, if it does, etc, but it is the scriptures themselves that do, if they do, etc...

We are clearly dealing with what scripture actually says here, not just my own interpretations of it...

I'm willing to talk about about and entertain suggestions...? Theories, etc...

What is clear here though, is our classic interpretations of it have been wrong thus far, and that much is obvious...

I'm sorry it can't be "simple", but that's not my fault...

God Bless!
 
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