Adam and Eve and The Garden of Eden, "You shall not touch it, lest you die"...

[misput]

Romans 1: 19. Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse

No problem i wanted to look at the two text types side by side.

What???

 

[throughfiierytrial]

"I was created, you evolved" is a very rude statement. It is very clear from the context the sons of God are the sons of faithful Seth, the daughters of men are the unfaithful daughters, granddaughters etc, of Cain. It does not matter who Melchizedek was, the salvation message is what is important.

Yes, that is and was meant to be a rather rude statement or sharp rebuke...it was made in a debate with an atheist!
I walk away from the speculation with a narrow interpretation as I made quite clear...we were speculating. The idea that no mention of other mankind is made when Cain received the mark to protect him has been introduced here...which is at least puzzling. Within the book of Hebrews one can locate the Biblical speculation of the greatness of Melchizedek and the fact that he blesses Abram who had the promises...so to this day there is speculation of the unknown...mere speculation mind you, which is what we were doing here and is what is being done in Hebrews. The entire world will be held accountable to Christ on the Judgement Day...the Day of the Lord's Wrath!

 

[misput]

Yes, that is and was meant to be a rather rude statement or sharp rebuke...it was made in a debate with an atheist!
I walk away from the speculation with a narrow interpretation as I made quite clear...we were speculating. The idea that no mention of other mankind is made when Cain received the mark to protect him has been introduced here...which is at least puzzling. Within the book of Hebrews one can locate the Biblical speculation of the greatness of Melchizedek and the fact that he blesses Abram who had the promises...so to this day there is speculation of the unknown...mere speculation mind you, which is what we were doing here and is what is being done in Hebrews. The entire world will be held accountable to Christ on the Judgement Day...the Day of the Lord's Wrath!

Actually I do not know who you are talking about. Does the person declare himself an atheist or are you judging him an atheist?
There are obviously other descendants of Adam and Eve.
If you can put it together the immediate context and actually the whole bible teaches us that the mark of Cain is the mark of a vengeful spirit.
Undoubtedly Melchizedek is the Messiah or representative of Him. Actually He is right there all the "way".

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Actually I do not know who you are talking about. Does the person declare himself an atheist or are you judging him an atheist?
There are obviously other descendants of Adam and Eve.
If you can put it together the immediate context and actually the whole bible teaches us that the mark of Cain is the mark of a vengeful spirit.
Undoubtedly Melchizedek is the Messiah or representative of Him. Actually He is right there all the "way".

Didn't think to consider that the mark of Cain is the mark of a vengeful spirit...that is obvious and yet insightful and thanks for all your discussion.

 

[misput]

Didn't think to consider that the mark of Cain is the mark of a vengeful spirit...that is obvious and yet insightful and thanks for all your discussion.

Someone who gets it, how refreshing! Thank you.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Not stated in Schripture but I believe Adam partook of the fruit to save Eve.
He was willing to die for her, and this may sound mushy but I believe his love for her was the reason he joined Her in Sin.

Possibly, but notice his defense to God though in 3:12 "The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”"

So basically Adam blamed Eve. If he was willing to die for her than why did he end up blaming her in the end for causing him to sin?

 

[Neogaia777]

Possibly, but notice his defense to God though in 3:12 "The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”"

So basically Adam blamed Eve. If he was willing to die for her than why did he end up blaming her in the end for causing him to sin?

He was really blaming God mainly, when he should have blamed himself, not really Eve... The woman "you gave me" the one made by you so she would do this, He was really blaming God when he should have blamed himself, for not teaching Eve accurately about what God actually said, warning her about the serpent by the tree, etc...

Adam's fault, but he tried to blame God for it...

It was his love for her that made him decide to partake, for he was not deceived remember...? But he (Adam) deceived Eve, etc...

God Bless!

 

[now faith]

Possibly, but notice his defense to God though in 3:12 "The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”"

So basically Adam blamed Eve. If he was willing to die for her than why did he end up blaming her in the end for causing him to sin?

 

[now faith]

It is not humor at all, but you have to admit it was the first blame game ever.
We we take time to ponder how everything was broken with one event.
The animals changed from eating pulse to eating each other, Adam felt lust for the first time,as with Eve also.
Then condemnation thinking they were condemned for being naked and what they had done.
A feeble attempt to cover themselves, as if God would not know.
Watching animals blood being shed for their clothing.
The sounds of what I believe to be lambs being torn and skined.
What was sinless was now a horror.
From innocent and pure, to dirty a d defiled In one short time.
The only thing Adam could do was to blame God for the whole thing knowing it was their fault.
I can imagine Adam's anger toward the serpent He would have killed him if he had a chance.
Being cast out of a place of peace and beauty to a harsh world where survival was the task of every day.
Then they work hard ,bring offerings to God, and their oldest son kills their younger son.
As a couple they must have been wondering about death.

 

[now faith]

Someone who gets it, how refreshing! Thank you.

That's a possibility,then you have to reconcile his wife.
The Bible does not say He waited till after Seth was born, then a sister to mature.
It simply says He went to Nod and knew his wife.
One possible thing was God made him a wife.
Knowing Cain was a out cast gave him a mate.

 

[now faith]

This is why I believe the sons of God were from Adam, and the daughters of Men were
Part of cains people.

 

[Neogaia777]

This is why I believe the sons of God were from Adam, and the daughters of Men were
Part of cains people.

It's entirely possible, maybe even very probable maybe...?

I think your definitely onto something here...?

God Bless!

 

[Neostarwcc]

He was really blaming God mainly, when he should have blamed himself, not really Eve... The woman "you gave me" the one made by you so she would do this, He was really blaming God when he should have blamed himself, for not teaching Eve accurately about what God actually said, warning her about the serpent by the tree, etc...

Adam's fault, but he tried to blame God for it...

It was his love for her that made him decide to partake, for he was not deceived remember...? But he (Adam) deceived Eve, etc...

God Bless!

I guess it could be argued that Eve wanted to become a God because Satan said "You will become a God" basically. But after she realized that the fruit had not made her a God but had completely corrupted her from the inside, why did she even WANT to give the fruit to her husband? Unless, she didn't know that yet and was basically like "Here, this fruit will make us like God or become a God." and Adam had that same evil desire in his heart. After all, wanting to become a God is what corrupted Lucifer and caused him to sin too. Or, perhaps you guys are right and he loved Eve so much that he wanted to die along with her.

It would make sense because Satan plays on the deepest desires of our hearts that God doesn't give to us immediately on our own.

Like when Satan offered to give Jesus all of the desires of his heart when he was in the desert being tempted by him. He offered to give Jesus a way to getting his kingdom that he wanted without having to die and suffer for humanity and humanity would completely accept him and worship him too.

It's a good thing he didn't accept this temptation. Otherwise there would have been no hope for us at all. That was one reason he didn't but I think another reason is because the book of Isaiah says that one day all of mankind will bow down to and worship him anyway. So he would gain the acceptance and worship he desired doing things he and God the Father's way anyway and those he called his sheep would be able to live with him and serve him for forever. It also didn't matter what he chose either, God would have still defeated Satan and later, Christ.

If Adam had blamed God than it would make sense why both Adam and Eve did not believe him when he said that the fruit would corrupt them and humanity that came from them. That or only Adam knew it and decided to die to be with his wife. Who knows.

 

[Yahkov]

Too much adding to & taking away from the Word of God & too much presumption & speculation as to what happened when Scripture doesn't say many of the things stated here happened that way. No more needs to be said.

These were my exact thoughts reading through this thread.

 

[Neogaia777]

These were my exact thoughts reading through this thread.

See posts #10, and #11...

It does say Adam was not deceived, and woman, or Eve was....

God Bless!

 

[misput]

That's a possibility,then you have to reconcile his wife.
The Bible does not say He waited till after Seth was born, then a sister to mature.
It simply says He went to Nod and knew his wife.
One possible thing was God made him a wife.
Knowing Cain was a out cast gave him a mate.

We do not know how much time was involved or haw many brothers and sisters so I think it is ok to assume the first family multiplied within itself as God had commanded.

 

[misput]

Mathetes66 said: ↑
Too much adding to & taking away from the Word of God & too much presumption & speculation as to what happened when Scripture doesn't say many of the things stated here happened that way. No more needs to be said.

Heavens no! we should not exchange ideas, we might learn something!

 

[Yahkov]

See posts #10, and #11...

It does say Adam was not deceived, and woman, or Eve was....

God Bless!

It does say that, and I agree. But you can use Scripture to expand on an idea in Scripture. That's not what's happening here. We aren't getting an idea from Scripture, we are adding ideas in.

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9

If I say, "God offers the gift of Salvation by His grace through faith, and we did not work to attain this," I am not adding a new idea in. What I have said there and what Ephesians 2:8-9 are the same thing.

I am not sure who said it but what was said is, "Adam joined Eve in sin because he loved her," that's an idea we can't say with confidence is Biblical. That's adding an idea into Scripture. The idea is entertaining and that's the only appeal it has.

 

[Neogaia777]

It does say that, and I agree. But you can use Scripture to expand on an idea in Scripture. That's not what's happening here. We aren't getting an idea from Scripture, we are adding ideas in.

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9

If I say, "God offers the gift of Salvation by His grace through faith, and we did not work to attain this," I am not adding a new idea in. What I have said there and what Ephesians 2:8-9 are the same thing.

I am not sure who said it but what was said is, "Adam joined Eve in sin because he loved her," that's an idea we can't say with confidence is Biblical. That's adding an idea into Scripture. The idea is entertaining and that's the only appeal it has.

Were only just talking about it you know...?

But were putting scripture together with scripture, like the one about Adam not being deceived, and Eve being deceived, together with other scripture to come up with some hypothesis, expressed in our own words, that's all...

But with those scriptures, it (our hypothesis) does seem like it could be very likely that that's what happened though, with Adam and Eve and whatnot though...

Or at least, so far, it seems like the only explanation that makes sense anyway...

God Bless!

 

[Yahkov]

Were only just talking about it you know...?

But were putting scripture together with scripture, like the one about Adam not being deceived, and Eve being deceived, together with other scripture to come up with some hypothesis, expressed in our own words, that's all...

But with those scriptures, it (our hypothesis) does seem like it could be very likely that that's what happened though, with Adam and Eve and whatnot though...

Or at least, so far, it seems like the only explanation that makes sense anyway...

God Bless!

There is danger in handling Scripture this way though, forcing explanations where one isn't given or necessary. Adam sinned, going against God's command. That's that. If we try and force a hypothesis or explanation for everything in Scripture where one is not provided, we veer away from the truth and purpose.

Even if Adam did so out of love for Eve, he disobeyed God. And if Adam did this because he loved Eve and wanted to be a sinner with her, then he was deceived by "his love" for Eve. You see what endless loophole we can get ourselves into? It's not healthy or proper handling of Scripture to squeeze ideas in.