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AD66-70: The Day the Son of Man was revealed

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by parousia70, Nov 23, 2002.

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  1. OldShepherd

    OldShepherd Zaqunraah

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    God did NOT say He would personally lead a march with His anything!

    • Hab 3:3 God came from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran. Selah. His glory covered the heavens, and the earth was full of his praise.(Does this say anyone saw God? OS)
      4 And his brightness was as the light; he had horns coming out of his hand: and there was the hiding of his power.(His brightness was as the light but this doesn’t say they saw it. OS)
      5 Before him went the pestilence, and burning coals went forth at his feet. .(No armies! Pestilence and burning coals went before Him! OS)
      6 He stood, and measured the earth: he beheld, and drove asunder the nations .(He BEHELD and drove asunder. No physical presence or action! OS); and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow: .(God spoke and the hills bowed! OS) his ways are everlasting.
      7 I saw the tents of Cushan in affliction: .(“I saw the tents” NOT “I saw God.” OS) and the curtains of the land of Midian did tremble.
      8 Was the LORD displeased against the rivers? was thine anger against the rivers? was thy wrath against the sea, that thou didst ride upon thine horses and thy chariots of salvation? .(Clearly figurative language NOT literal chariots. What are the “chariots of God”? OS)
      Psalms 104:3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:

      9 Thy bow was made quite naked, according to the oaths of the tribes, even thy word. Selah. Thou didst cleave the earth with rivers.
      10 The mountains saw thee, .(The mountains NOT people saw God! OS) and they trembled: the overflowing of the water passed by: the deep uttered his voice, and lifted up his hands on high.
      11 The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows (God calls lightning and famine, His arrows. OS)they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear.
      12 Thou didst march through the land in indignation, thou didst thresh the heathen in anger. .(God can march without anyone seeing Him. And oh BTW where are the armies? OS)
      13 Thou wentest forth for the salvation of thy people, .(Still does NOT say they would see God! OS) even for salvation with thine anointed; thou woundedst the head out of the house of the wicked, by discovering the foundation unto the neck. .(wounded by “discovering” NOT a spear or a sword! OS) Selah.
    No leading of marches! No horses! No piercing the heads of the enemies of Israel.
     
  2. GW

    GW Veteran

    +59
    Christian
    Old Shepherd,

    I noticed that you had no comment on why Jehovah was said to have slain the Kings of the Amorites when it was physically and literally done by Moses and the Israelites. You have no explanation for the fact that Yahweh claims the Amorites were driven out by HIMSELF and not the bow and the sword of the Israelites (Josh 24:12,18)--when in fact it WAS LITERALLY AND PHYSICALLY the bow and the sword of Moses and the Israelites that did this. It was done by human agencies:


    --COMPARE THIS--

    Joshua 24:12,18
    And I sent the hornet before you, which drave them out from before you, even the two kings of the Amorites [Og and Sihon]; but not with thy sword, nor with thy bow....and Yahweh drove out from before us all the nations, even the Amorites who lived in the land: therefore we also will serve Yahweh; for he is our God.

    --AND THIS--

    Psalms 135:6, 10-11
    Whatever Jehovah pleases, He does, In heaven and in earth...He smote many nations And slew mighty kings, Sihon, king of the Amorites, And Og, king of Bashan,And all the kingdoms of Canaan


    --TO THIS--

    Numbers 21:21-25, 31-35
    And Israel sent messengers unto Sihon king of the Amorites, saying, Let me pass through thy land: we will not turn aside into field, or into vineyard; we will not drink of the water of the wells: we will go by the king's highway, until we have passed thy border. And Sihon would not permit Israel to pass through his border: but Sihon gathered all his people together, and went out against Israel into the wilderness, and came to Jahaz; and he fought against Israel. And Israel smote him with the edge of the sword, and possessed his land from the Arnon unto the Jabbok, even unto the children of Ammon; for the border of the children of Ammon was strong. And Israel took all these cities: and Israel dwelt in all the cities of the Amorites, in Heshbon, and in all the towns thereof....Thus Israel dwelt in the land of the Amorites. And Moses sent to spy out Jazer; and they took the towns thereof, and drove out the Amorites that were there. And they turned and went up by the way of Bashan: and Og the king of Bashan went out against them, he and all his people, to battle at Edrei. And Jehovah said unto Moses, Fear him not: for I have delivered him into thy hand, and all his people, and his land; and thou shalt do to him as thou didst unto Sihon king of the Amorites, who dwelt at Heshbon. So they smote him, and his sons and all his people, until there was none left him remaining: and they possessed his land.

    --AND TO THIS--

    Deuteronomy 2:31-34; 3:1-4,8, 21
    And Jehovah said unto me, Behold, I have begun to deliver up Sihon and his land before thee: begin to possess, that thou mayest inherit his land. Then Sihon came out against us, he and all his people, unto battle at Jahaz. And Jehovah our God delivered him up before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed every inhabited city, with the women and the little ones; we left none remaining...Then we turned, and went up the way to Bashan: and Og the king of Bashan came out against us, he and all his people, unto battle at Edrei. And Jehovah said unto me, Fear him not; for I have delivered him, and all his people, and his land, into thy hand; and thou shalt do unto him as thou didst unto Sihon king of the Amorites, who dwelt at Heshbon. So Jehovah our God delivered into our hand Og also, the king of Bashan, and all his people: and we smote him until none was left to him remaining. And we took all his cities at that time; there was not a city which we took not from them...And we took the land at that time out of the hand of the two kings of the Amorites that were beyond the Jordan...And I commanded Joshua at that time, saying, Thine eyes have seen all that Jehovah your God hath done unto these two kings: so shall Jehovah do unto all the kingdoms whither thou goest over.
    ------------------------------------------------------


    So you see, Old Shep, the Israelites plainly understood that when Jehovah comes in his apocalyptic judgments, it is carried out literally and physically by human agencies, and yet the prophets often declare that Jehovah himself came and performed the battles and not men. The prophets spoke in a way that, if read physically and literally, would often mislead people to think Jehovah actually physically and visibly comes and slays men with his own weapons and such at his apocalyptic comings. Rather, the Hebrews understood plainly that Jehovah uses human agencies as his bow and sword and armies. As Habakkuk said concerning Israel's historic triumph over Egypt and the nations of Caanan...

    Habakkuk 3
    Was thine anger against the rivers, Or thy wrath against the sea, That thou didst ride upon thy horses, Upon thy chariots of salvation? Thy bow was made quite bare; ...The mountains saw thee, and were afraid;...The sun and moon stood still in their habitation, At the light of thine arrows as they went, At the shining of thy glittering spear. Thou didst march though the land in indignation; Thou didst thresh the nations in anger. ...Thou woundest the head out of the house of the wicked man, Laying bare the foundation even unto the neck. Thou didst pierce with his own staves the head of his warriors:...Thou didst tread the sea with thy horses


    You say Jehovah led no marches??? He came with no horses??? Jehovah pierced no heads of the enemies of Israel??? Habakkuk says he did all these physical things, and you have lost all credibility. And for certain, all this apocalyptic language simply is re-applied by Jesus Christ and the apostles to speak of the great tribulation which took place in AD 67-70 at the Day of Christ.

    GW
     
  3. FluviusNeckar

    FluviusNeckar Member

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    LOL. We know who you are and why this discussion is pointless. What's to refute?!
     
  4. OldShepherd

    OldShepherd Zaqunraah

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    I am out of town and will not return until after the first of the year. I am using a borrowed PC and do not have any resources or a lot of time BUT I notice you have completely ignored my entire post. You did NOT address any specific points I posted in red. And you came back with more irrelevant "proof texts" none of which are similar to the apocalyptic texts in the Olivet discourse. NONE! Where is one verse (1) which states that YHWH would be or was seen from east to west like the lightning, etc? I will address these most recent irrelevant "proof texts", in detail, when I return. In the meantme you might consider specific arguments addressed to each specific point I posted in red in my previous post.

    FN,
    Do you have a relevant comments on any pertinent topic?
     
  5. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    LOL

    Where is one verse that says Lightning is a "Global" event that can be seen by the entire earth at the same time?

     

    And Happy New Year BTW!
     
  6. Evangelion

    Evangelion <b><font size="2">δυνατός</b></font>

    +0
    :D
     
  7. Evangelion

    Evangelion <b><font size="2">δυνατός</b></font>

    +0
    :D
     
  8. Evangelion

    Evangelion <b><font size="2">δυνατός</b></font>

    +0
    :D
     
  9. Evangelion

    Evangelion <b><font size="2">δυνατός</b></font>

    +0
    :D
     
  10. Evangelion

    Evangelion <b><font size="2">δυνατός</b></font>

    +0
    :D
     
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