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AD66-70: The Day the Son of Man was revealed

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by parousia70, Nov 23, 2002.

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  1. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    We can see from scripture itself that the Olivet cannot be divided to insert some far distant future. Luke 21:20-22 was actually the time the "Son of Man was revealed" according to scripture. Of course, we should already believe this because those were "the Days of Vengeance THAT ALL THINGS WRITTEN BE FULFILLED" (Luke 21:22).

    However, let's let scripture interpret scripture and see that AD66-70 was the time when the Son of Man was revealed:


    ____________________________________________________
    --COMPARE THIS--

    Luke 21:20-21- (A)
    "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city;
    [67-70AD]

    --TO THIS--

    Matthew 24:16-18 - (B)
    then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house. Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak ...
    [66/67AD too, by parallel with Luke 21:20-21]

    --AND NOW THIS--

    Luke 17:30-32 - (C)
    Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed. On that day, the one who is on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take them out; and likewise the one who is in the field must not turn back.
    [66/67AD by parallel with Matt 24:16-18]
    _____________________________________________________


    Here is the explicit relationship of the three above Olivet verses using rules of logic and interpretation:

    If 'A' = 'B'
    And if 'B' = 'C'
    THEN A = C



    THE FINAL CONCLUSION:

    IF
    (A) Luke 21:20-21 = (B) Matthew 24:16-18

    --AND--
    (B) Matthew 24:16-18 = (C) Luke 17:30-32

    --THEN--
    (A) Luke 21:20-21 = (C) Luke 17:30-32



    The rules of logic demand that if A=B and if B=C, THEN 'A' MUST = 'C'. This PROVES beyond all doubt that Luke 21:20-22 must also have been "The Day in which the Son of Man was revealed," exactly as Luke 17:30-31 says. The time when the Judean Christians fled the city and countryside, coming straight off the roofs and not returning from the fields, was "the Day when the Son of Man was revealed." We get this certain fact according to Luke 17:30-31 which is parallel to Matt 24:16-18 which is parallel to Luke 21:20-21. When scripture interprets scripture, 67-70 was the time for the Son of Man to be revealed.

    Today's apocalypticism is fueled by hopelessness and a lack of vision concerning the Kingdom of God. Yet the preterist view is fueled by all of the hope and courage of the angels and saints as they proclaimed fullness of joy and the Kingdom of God back at the Nativity:


    Luke 1:31-33
    "And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David; and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end."


    Luke 2:10-14
    The angel said to them, "Don't be afraid, for behold, I bring you good news of great joy which will be to all the people. For there is born to you, this day, in the city of David, a Savior, who is Christ the Lord. This is the sign to you: you will find a baby wrapped in strips of cloth, lying in a feeding trough." Suddenly, there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, Glory to God in the highest, On earth peace, good will toward men."



    Finally, let all join in with the angels and preterists as we sing joyfully a truly PRETERISTIC hymn -- one of the best of all time:


    JOY TO THE WORLD

    Joy to the world! The Lord is come:
    let earth receive her King!
    Let every heart prepare him room,
    and heaven and nature sing.

    Joy to the earth! the Saviour reigns:
    let men their songs employ,
    while fields and floods, rocks,hills and plains
    repeat the sounding joy.

    No more let sins and sorrows grow,
    nor thorns infest the ground:
    he comes to make his blessings flow
    far as the curse is found.

    He rules the earth with truth and grace,
    and makes the nations prove
    the glories of his righteousnes
    and wonders of his love.
     
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  2. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    WOW! 26 views so far and not even one single attempt at a refutation!

    I knew this argument was air tight, but I didn't expect those in opposition to buckle so quickly.

    I know there are those of you out there that absolutely disagree, but it is appears you are unable to show from scripture why.

    I'll keep waiting.
     
  3. davo

    davo Member

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    Hey P70! :wave: you might be waiting 2000+ years for that, as it's hard to push aside the truth, though some sure try.

    Rev 11:15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!" :clap:

    davo
     
  4. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    It's currently up to 40 views without one single attempt at a refutation, scriptural or otherwise. Wow.

    The witness of truth is powerful indeed!:angel:
     
  5. judge

    judge Regular Member

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    .....but it all seemed to make perfect sense.

    JOY TO THE WORLD

    Joy to the world! The Lord is come:
    let earth receive her King!
    Let every heart prepare him room,
    and heaven and nature sing.

    Joy to the earth! the Saviour reigns:
    let men their songs employ,
    while fields and floods, rocks,hills and plains
    repeat the sounding joy.

    No more let sins and sorrows grow,
    nor thorns infest the ground:
    he comes to make his blessings flow
    far as the curse is found.

    He rules the earth with truth and grace,
    and makes the nations prove
    the glories of his righteousnes
    and wonders of his love.
     
  6. OldShepherd

    OldShepherd Zaqunraah

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    I don’t want you two young lads should dislocate your shoulders patting yourselves on the back. By all means lets compare the scriptures but let us first put them in context. Quoted by Parousia,

    ”Luke 21:20-21- (A)
    "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city;
    [67-70AD]


    Verses omitted by Parousia. This supposedly happened in 66-67 AD. When did the following happen? Particularly vss. 25, 27, “ distress of nations” and , “the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory". Has that happened yet? Where is it recorded in scripture?”

    • 25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
      26 Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
      27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
      28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
    --TO THIS—

    ”Matthew 24:16-18 - (B)
    then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house. Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his
    cloak ...
    [66/67AD too, by parallel with Luke 21:20-21]
    ”

    Again the verses you omitted. When did these events occur? Where are they recorded in scripture. If the verses you quoted, only a few verses later, supposedly occurred in 66-67 AD, where is the record of verses 29-31, occurring?

    • 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
      27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
      28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
      29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
      30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall [n]all the tribes of the earth mourn[/n], and
      they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven
      with power and great glory.

      31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
    --AND NOW THIS—
    ”Luke 17:30-32 - (C)
    Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed. On that day, the one who is on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take them out; and likewise the one who is in the field must not turn back.
    [66/67AD by parallel with Matt 24:16-18]
    ”

    And once again we have verses omitted which contradict your already decided conclusion.

    • Luk 17:22
    • And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
      23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.
      24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
    Again only a few verses before your quote, in the same discourse. When did this occur? As with all Heretical Religious Groups, (HRG) you selectively quote the scriptures, disregard totally the rules of the languages involved, and apply your own unique interpretation to passages to make them fit your theology. So your syllogism just went belly up.

    I am working on a response to Isaiah 34. A pre-question for you. How many times does God use the future tense describing the judgment he is bringing and how many nations does He address? You implied none and one, before. Might want to look at that passage again.
     
  7. Ben johnson

    Ben johnson Legend Supporter

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    Excellent, Oldshepherd! Another thing---When Jesus returns (with noise, trumpet & shouts), in clouds of glory---He will gather His elect from the four winds. "The dead in Christ will be raised FIRST, and then we who are alive and remain will APANTESIS-MEET Him in the air (and preceed forward to reign with Him for 1000 years).

    Matt24 says "two men in the field, two men in one bed, two women grinding---one taken and one left"---which one is TAKEN, and which is LEFT?

    Many believe the "TAKEN" are the "RIGHTEOUS", and the LEFTBEHIND are the EVIL; but if we read the PARALLEL verse in Luke 17, they ASKED Him where the "TAKEN ONES", would be taken TO. And Jesus said, "Where the BODY is, there are the VULTURES (eagles) gathered!" So much for the TAKEN ones being RAPTURED! Looks to me, like the TAKEN ones are the EVIL men---and the LEFTBEHIND ones are THEN RAPTURED!

    Soooo---what year were all of the EVIL MEN in the world, killed and thrown to vultures? What year was it that we were RAPTURED? What year was Jesus SEEN, what year did He return to rule for a thousand years? Has ANY of this happened yet?

    :)
     
  8. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    It appears OS, that you are taking the position that Jesus NEVER prophesied the 70 AD destruction of the temple . Is this what you believe?
     
  9. Knight

    Knight Knight of the Cross

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    Could someone please explain why this is significant?
     
  10. Anthony

    Anthony Generic Christian

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    I'm with Knight, please put this in simple terms, instead of the math equation. :help:
     
  11. Tallyn

    Tallyn New Member

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    I see how you've managed to insert the phrase "in the world" here.
    Any chance you can accept that this prophecy was localized? Only meant for those residing in Jerusalem? By the way, this was fullfilled in 70AD.

    "WE" were never raptured, nor ever will be. Only the Christians living during 70AD were raptured.

    70AD

    I myself haven't put this into total perspective as of yet. Here is what Revelation 20 states:

    Satan Bound
    1000 years begins
    1st Resurrection
    1000 years ends
    Satan released
    2nd Resurrection (rapture)

    So far I have to conclude that this took place at the time of Christ up to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD - albeit it would not be a literal 1000 years.

    We see many christians beheaded for their testimony, as well as the binding of Devils/Demons by the Holy Spirit during this period of time.

    -Tallyn
     
  12. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    OK.

    Scripture interprates scripture.

    Paralell passages can not have different meanings.

    If one passage found it's fulfillment in 70AD, all it's paralells did as well.

     The "Day the son of man is revealed" is scripturally equivalent to the "Day of Christ", or 2nd coming.

    The examples provided demonstrate that "That Day" is scripturally bound and afixed to the "surrounding of Jerusalem with armies", which ocourred in 66-70AD.

    The Apostles' generation, was indeed the "Last Days" generation, just as they and their Master taught and believed. 

    Therefore, we today are living "Beyond" the biblical "End times". 

     
     
  13. Knight

    Knight Knight of the Cross

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    If you're right. (And I'm not saying you are.) What does this mean for us now?
     
  14. Anthony

    Anthony Generic Christian

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    How does this all reconcile with ACTS 1:9

    That Jesus' return would be:
    1- The same way he left
    2- The same Jesus - the person
    3- Visible - We will see him
    4- Glory - In glory


    There is a well done level headed discussion, online audio explanation of this very subject, by R.C.Sproul
    "Return of Christ" - 11/23/02

    http://www.gospelcom.net/ligonier/radio/archive.php
     
  15. Tallyn

    Tallyn New Member

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    If I may throw in my 2 cents...

    We now have a restored relationship with God.
    If you believe Christ died for man's sins, then your sins are now covered. God no longer sees you as a sinner...you are pure, hence - able to have a full relationship with God.

    Awesome, eh!?

    -Tallyn
     
  16. Ben johnson

    Ben johnson Legend Supporter

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    The "SECOND RESURRECTION" is the RAPTURE??? I would like you to re-examine that. In Rev20:4, the MARTYRS are resurrected---this is the FIRST. In verse 6, it says "blessed and holy is he who has a part in the FIRST, against these the second death has no power". I understand the SECOND, to be for the UNSAVED.

    In 1Thess4:15-17 it says, "we who are alive SHALL NOT PRECEED THE DEAD---for the dead are raised FIRST, and THEN we are raptured". If the FIRST RESURRECTION occurs at the end of the Tribulation, at the start of the 1000 year reign, how then could there have been a PRIOR RESURRECTION? There can only be ONE "great or mass first resurrection". If "BLESSED AND HOLY is he who has a part in the FIRST", if the FIRST is the RAPTURE, then can the SECOND be anything but, "only for the unsaved, to participate in the judgment"?
     
  17. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    The goal is none other than that every man of every nation, through the power of the Gospel, attain unto that for which mankind was created: To love God with all his heart, soul and mind, and his neighbor as himself (Matt. 22:37-39; Mk. 12:30-31; Lk. 10:27-28).

    I believe Revelation 22:17 sums up our purpose today:

    "And the Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely."

    Thats us today, calling out to all who thirst outside the City we currently inhabit (New Jerusalem), to "come!" drink the water of Life freely!

     
     
  18. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Excellent questions!

    I bet you don't really believe the return of Christ was supposed to be exactly the same in every detail as His departure do you?

    Only a few saw Him Go, He Left as the humble servant, he handed out no rewards at His departure.

    Do you believe His return will be "in Like manner"?

    Acts 1:11 says He will come in "like manner" as he went into heaven.

    How did Jesus go "into heaven"?

    Hidden from the eyes by a cloud. (Acts 1:9) 

    Did Jesus the person go into heaven?

    YES! (On a cloud, exactly as Daniel 7:13 prophesied)

    Did the disciples "SEE" Jesus the person go "Into Heaven" with physical eyes?

    According to Acts 1:9, NO. His entrance into heaven was hidden from their eyes by a cloud.

    He was to return in "like manner". The angels did not give the apostles any "New" or "previously unknown" information. They merely reinforced Jesus' own words on the matter.

     He left on a cloud, He promised to return "on the clouds", which must be interprated as being in the same nature as all the previous Jehovah "Cloud Comings in Judgement" found in the OT. All are discribed as Jehovah God riding the Clouds personally and visibly, and were made manifest through the use of Human armies as the intstrument of Gods Judgement.

    There is no scriptural warrant to interprate the NT's  language of "Personal, Visible cloud comings in Glory" in polar opposite fashion to the set precident of the exact same language found in the OT. 

    Since the (para)phrase "God coming on the clouds in Judgement" always found fulfillment in the actions of Human armies in the OT, adopting any other interpratation of the same language in the NT is unfounded.
     
  19. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    "Great or Mass 1st resurrection"?

    Where do you come up with that phrase? It's certainly not scriptural.

    The Resurrection of Jesus Christ was indeed the "First resurrection", for no resurrections ocourred, or even could have ocourred, before it.

    Scripture confirms Jesus Christ is the "Firstborn of Many",(Romans 8:29) the "Firstborn from the dead".(Colissians 1:18, Revelation 1:5)

     Truly, The 2nd death has no power over all who Take Part in the "First resurrection" (That of Jesus Christ).

    Any resurrection that takes place after that of Christ Jesus, can not be the "First" resurrection.
     
  20. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Awesome indeed! :clap: :clap: :clap:
     
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