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Acts 16:14

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by Hammster, Feb 15, 2014.

  1. Hammster

    Hammster Every knee shall bow. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Of course. Always has.
     
  2. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    Several have already.

    Why hasn't the question of WHY she was a worshiper of God as an unbeliever, since RT claims that the unregenerate all hate God?

    Also, Cornelius, prior to his salvation, also worshiped God, who answered his prayers! How so, since he was unregenerate, and RT claims that the unregenerate hate God?

    Also, several Calvinists have said that faith and regeneration occur at the same time. Yet both of these people worshiped God WAY before they believed.

    So it is that RT has some explaining to do.
     
  3. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    No. It remained simple.

    No one argues for a "merely kind gesture". Strange choice of words, imho.

    The phrase "opened her heart" refers to making the gospel clear. She was seeking, proven by the FACT that she was a worship of God. And God let her find Him. 2 Chron 15:2

    It's all very simple.
     
  4. Hammster

    Hammster Every knee shall bow. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Possibly. But they fold up on the follow up questions.
    Because that's not what the OP is about.
    Not in this thread, since that's not the topic. Do you have anything to contribute to the actual topic?
     
  5. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    OK, we'll see.

    I'm not sure what your point is here. My point about v.17 is sequence: when anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. That is clear enough.

    v.14 doesn't trump v.17. In fact, it is making the exact same point. Who are "in Christ"? Believers, per Eph 1:13. Only believers are "in Christ". And being "in Christ" is the same as "turning to the Lord". THE EXACT SAME THING.

    Glad we agree!

    Why do you keep telling me what I don't like, when you have no idea whatsoever. Please keep your erroneous opinions to yourself.

    There is zero support for your opinion here. If your opinion were true, why was Paul trying to PERSUADE men to believe the gospel? That wouldn't be necessary. All he'd have to do is hum a few bars of "Just as I am" and the elect would all come on down the aisle. Acts 18:4, 26:28, 28:23, and 2 Cor 5:11. These verses refute your opinion.

    Your opinions are wrong when attempting to assert them on the views of others.
     
  6. Hammster

    Hammster Every knee shall bow. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    If we could stay on topic, that would be great. Thanks.
     
  7. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    My questions are totally related to the OP. The OP has been answered; you don't like the answers and call them non answers.

    However, RT has the burden to explain WHY 2 Biblical people, as unregenerate unbelievers, were worshiping God in the first place.

    The dilemma: RT cannot explain why any unregenerate, whom RT claims hates God, would be described as worshiping God.

    So, the only solution to the dilemma: ignore the questions as not "about" the OP.

    Anyway, anyone reading these threads will see the dilemma and the non-response by RT regarding the dilemma.

    'nough said.
     
  8. Hammster

    Hammster Every knee shall bow. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Your questions aren't related to the OP. And now you are attempting to deliberately derail this thread. I'm asking you to stop.

    You are, however, welcome to start a thread about whatever you'd like to discuss.
     
  9. The Boxer

    The Boxer Fighting the good fight

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    Paul was NOT speaking about men turning to the Lord for salvation. Yesterday I said that Paul was speaking about Christians turning to the Lord. But that bothered me a little because I have suspected for a while that Paul was actually referring to Moses turning to the Lord because he said, "Whenever he turns to the Lord the veil is removed." It does NOT say, "Whever anyone turns to the Lord the veil is removed."

    When Moses turned toward the Lord the veil was removed. The NEB quite nicely brings this out,

    But to this very day, every time the Law of Moses is read, a veil lies over the minds of the hearers. However, as the Scripture says of Moses, "Whenever he turns to the Lord the veil is removed."

    Now compare the NEB's reading with Exodus 34:34,

    But whenever Moses went in before the Lord to speak with Him, he would take the veil off until he came out."

    So, I reiterate that Paul was NOT speaking about non-Christians turning to the Lord. But I am making an adjustment. Neither was he speaking about Christians turning to the Lord. Paul was simply saying that in the time of Moses the veil was removed when Moses turned toward the Lord. But now the veil is removed in Christ. That's all! There is nothing said about the veil being removed as the consequence of men turning to the Lord. The veil is simply removed. Period! That's all it means.

    Then go to 4:4 where Paul said that the god of this age has blinded their minds. There is no blinding because of a veil! The veil has been removed in Christ. Those who are blinded are blinded by the god of this age, and NOTHING is said about that being remedied by an act on their part.

    In other words, you've got NOTHING friend!

    Already explained. God gave Paul to know who would listen (Acts 28:28). The apostles were prophets and they had the authority to remit and retain sins just as Jesus did. They would have to have known who would and would not believe. Nathan the prophet had that authority. He pronunced to king David, "Your sins are taken away." All God's prophets by virtue of their authority had the capactity to know the hearts of men if God revealed it to them, and consequently could make judgments.

    I have no idea what you are talking about.
     
  10. guuila

    guuila Guest

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    Google it.
     
  11. Hammster

    Hammster Every knee shall bow. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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  12. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    Why Google something for which you seem to have an idiosyncratic meaning? It was your exclamation, not Google's.
     
  13. Hammster

    Hammster Every knee shall bow. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Do you have anything to add to the actual topic?
     
  14. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    Yes, what I said! Is it not OK to ask another poster for clarification on a matter?
     
  15. Hammster

    Hammster Every knee shall bow. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Sure. Let's try.


    So until the Lord opened her heart, there was no way she could respond positively to the gospel?
     
  16. hedrick

    hedrick Senior Veteran Supporter

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    To me, worship is inherently connected to faith. You're not truly worshipping God if you don't have faith. I'd say if faith in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob doesn't count as real faith then worship of that God doesn't count as real worship.

    The NT has a problem with people, Jews or otherwise, who reject Jesus, but I don't believe there's any suggestion that the many people who knew God without having heard of Jesus were anything other than true believers. Saying that makes a mockery of the whole OT.

    But I think you have two possibilities for Lydia and Cornelius. Either they were regenerate and had faith, and then came to understand that the God whom they worship had been incarnate in Jesus; or they had not had saving faith, in which case their worship was not true worship. I think the first alternative is the right one. These passages are not about salvation at all. They are about God showing someone who already had faith, and thus was regenerate, that their faith was really based on Christ.
     
  17. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    I was seeking clarification from griff re his exclamation.

    Re your question: I've already responded to that question. You don't seem to have liked my reply. I won't be responding further.
     
  18. Hammster

    Hammster Every knee shall bow. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    He started a thread to discuss this.

    www.christianforums.com/t7806024/
     
  19. Hammster

    Hammster Every knee shall bow. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    You never answered the question. And based on this response, griff owes you no further explanation.
     
  20. guuila

    guuila Guest

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    Hey Oz - hopefully this helps: http://tinyurl.com/nvwp9u

    Let me know if you have any further questions.
     
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