Active People of Faith oppose Abortion - apparently

[Pommer]

They are miscarriages, not abortions. Second, miscarriages are done by nature because the child was not viable. Calling miscarriages abortion is just playing mind games to get people to think that murdering their own child is no different than the situation where non viable pregnancies end on their own by nature. Thereby trying to get people to feel that abortions are natural. Miscarriage is a natural death, dying of natural causes and abortion is murder. There's no such thing as a spontaneous natural murder. Mind games. Brainwashing.

A thunderstorm is natural, a brick and mortar house isn’t.

 

[comana]

They are miscarriages, not abortions. Second, miscarriages are done by nature because the child was not viable. Calling miscarriages abortion is just playing mind games to get people to think that murdering their own child is no different than the situation where non viable pregnancies end on their own by nature. Thereby trying to get people to feel that abortions are natural. Miscarriage is a natural death, dying of natural causes and abortion is murder. There's no such thing as a spontaneous natural murder. Mind games. Brainwashing.

Spontaneous abortion is the correct medical term for a miscarriage. Abortion refers to a termination of pregnancy whether due to fetal death, maternal complications, or induced.

 

[FireDragon76]

They are miscarriages, not abortions.

The medical term is "spontaneous abortion". Miscarraige is the layman's term.

Second, miscarriages are done by nature because the child was not viable. Calling miscarriages abortion is just playing mind games to get people to think that murdering their own child is no different than the situation where non viable pregnancies end on their own by nature.

Whether "nature" (whatever that is) or a human being ends the pregnancy makes no difference in my mind. A woman who is not ready to be a mother is a nonviable pregnancy, for all practical purposes. Unwanted prenancies generally end in unhappy circumstances.

 

[KerimF]

No, not without harming herself. They didn't even know for sure if they were pregnant till they started to show. There was no such thing as pregnancy tests or ultrasound back then. They could suspect it if their period was missing, but missing a period can happen without pregnancy and some women have inconsistent/irregular periods anyway. Also sometimes a pregnant women can still have light periods. I had light periods during one of my pregnancies and so did my mom.

I guess no one can deny that Jesus, all-knowledge (being God, to me in the least), didn't mention abortion in any way. We may conclude from this:
[1] Jesus is not all-knowledge, just a man not God (as He is supposed to be for a Christian in the least). So He, being a man, couldn't know that baby's life starts really long before his birth. If this is the case, then whoever prohibits abortion officially in the name of Jesus explicitly (not in the name of anyone else) is much like he admits that Jesus is ignorant (like every man in His time was) about when a human life starts.
Or
[2] Jesus is all-knowledge indeed and knows that bringing to life a human baby by just obeying a rule and not as a fruit of real love has nothing to do with God's Love; this imposed birth just serves the material world in bringing to life a highly intelligent pet to be raised as a future servant of some masters. By the way, in Islam (I am not sure about Judaism), Muslim are supposed to believe: "The adornment of life is money and children". Does Jesus say something like this in any way?!!!

Now, let us try being rational and realistic. If a woman is forced by a man to have what could be called 'chemical love', it is considered as being a crime (at least by the woman) though his act may give the world a great gift in her; the start of a living human. But it is a crime always and it is much like forcing her to live it by a rule (actually by a powerful legitimate privileged man... as in some countries in the least). So, it is obvious that if a human baby is brought to life by obeying a rule, he would be like the baby who is the fruit of a rape.

Who has ears will hear.

 

[wing2000]

But, if the mainstream "pro-choice position" was
- Exceptions for non-elective abortions (rape, incest women's health)
- Elective abortions capped at 16 weeks
- 100% private pay and no expectation of tax payer funding being used to pay for it

...such a position would likely have large majority support (again, not promoting anything here, just plainly stating how a lot of people would vote if that "were" the position...again, not promoting abortion, just to be clear...want to cover my bases before anyone gets an itchy trigger finger with the 'report' button)

I think that would be legislation that could pass in some states eventually. With the exception of the tax provision, I think it's closer to the legislation that has been passed in many European countries.

 

[KerimF]

Actually, abortion is just an earthly matter; as when it is legal, or not, to kill/die in a war.
Trying to make it a religious matter is just politics. In other words, the strongest group, in every region around the world (in a period of time), has the last words/rules on it... period.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I think that would be legislation that could pass in some states eventually. With the exception of the tax provision, I think it's closer to the legislation that has been passed in many European countries.

Correct, and that's the somewhat ironic part about it...

There are are actually people claiming they're going to renounce their American citizenship over this...like Billy Jo Armstrong, implying he's going to be moving to Europe (since he was saying "you'll be seeing a lot more of me" to a European crowd)

The irony, the countries in Europe that many on the left seek to emulate in a variety of other realms have stricter limits on abortion than many US states (even the red states)

For instance "On-demand abortion" (meaning, not for reasons of rape incest and medical issues) in Denmark is capped at 12 weeks. Same with Finland...

Yet, Florida's "extreme legislative proposal" (as some were calling it) a few months prior was simply to ban it at 15 weeks.


This is where the aspect I've mention before of "pushing too hard too fast when everyone was basically okay with the previous arrangement"

Had there been no major effort to try to guarantee tax payer funded abortion up through the third trimester, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Even if people weren't crazy about the previous arrangement, it likely would've remained in tact.

It's the backlash effect.

It's like a kid complaining about their allowance.

"We'll give you $15, but if you pestered enough for $20, we'd probably give you $20 and say nothing about it"
"No, I want $100!!! You give me $100 and not a cent less or I hate you and will tell everyone you're a terrible parent and abusive!"
"Okay, fine, now you're getting nothing"

 

[ThatRobGuy]

You should flip the parties in what you wrote and see how it reads. It hits the mark perfectly as well. The pro-life side could pick up a lot of the middle if they just would allow some abortions and stopped harassing people getting them. Why don’t you lecture to them?

I do lecture them (as much as I can within the rules of CF)

U.S. braces for violence against conservatives, pro-life groups with Supreme Court’s abortion ruling

I've stated numerous times that if people are going to take a staunch pro-life position (and truly want me to believe that they want to stop as much abortion as humanly possible), then they need to concede on some of their standards of "sexual purity" and "I shouldn't have to pay for that"


...but to your other part, many on the "pro life side" had already conceded some ground to the middle. Do you think any pro-life person was honestly happy about any abortion? Likely not, yet, per the polling I provided, many had conceded ground on it, and as only 8% of people said they wanted it banned. (there's certainly much more than 8% of the population that identifies as pro-life)

Had the "pro-choice platform" in the US matched that of the Scandinavian countries (allowed in cases of rape/incest/medical; limited to 12-16 weeks for elective), this likely wouldn't have even gone to the supreme court.

Important context...prior to this supreme court ruling, Florida (under DeSantis) was only looking to prohibit elective abortions after 15 weeks (with the 3 aforementioned exemptions still in tact) - making them more lax than Norway - and people were portraying that as "extreme restriction"

 

[FireDragon76]

I wonder if, in Jesus time, it was possible for a woman to abort safely, in one way or another.

Yes. Abortofacient medicinal herbs were usually used.

 

[KerimF]

Only after reading the posts of this thread carefully, I realized that how to deal with abortion is about money in the first place. So, I am sorry for not knowing this when I was writing my previous posts here.

 

[Skye1300]

Spontaneous abortion is the correct medical term for a miscarriage. Abortion refers to a termination of pregnancy whether due to fetal death, maternal complications, or induced.

But it wasn't always called that, not until abortion became a women's rights thing.

 

[Pommer]

But it wasn't always called that, not until abortion became a women's rights thing.

No, “spontaneous abortion” was the term since at least 1936.

 

[KerimF]

Yes. Abortofacient medicinal herbs were usually used.

In this case, abortion was okay for all. To my knowledge, so perhaps I missed something, no one, including Jesus (all-knowledge), saw necessary to talk about it as it is the case now.
I wrote this because who are discussing abortion here are supposed to be Christian.
But, I also understand that my remarks, on this post and my previous ones, should likely be seen nonsense to Jews, Muslims, Pagans and atheists.

 

[Skye1300]

No, “spontaneous abortion” was the term since at least 1936.

I mean they always used the term miscarriage for lay people.

 

[Pommer]

I mean they always used the term miscarriage for lay people.

Yup, we still do use it too…what’s your point?