Abstinence or Harm Reduction

[heirmiles]

Is there an underlying expectation that Christians should abstain from Drugs and Alcohol?
And if/when we see a Christian using do we personally become disappointed with him or her, or secretly condemn that person for doing so?

Do we secretly hold the attitude, "Don't smoke, don't drink, don't chew, and don't go out with girls or guys that do." Or "Don't snort, don't poke, don't toke, you'll only be seen as a joke.", or some other rhyme?

My question is, do we as Christians accept harm reduction as a viable goal in assisting people with addictions, or do we expect complete abstinence as the only viable outcome for an individual?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Is there an underlying expectation that Christians should abstain from Drugs and Alcohol?

Yes, certainly ...
Why "underlying" ? What means underlying vs clear revelation from Yahweh and His Word ?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Open shame and rebuke is better than hidden ("secret/ quiet") 'love' - to let them go on without warning or other as directed by Yahweh,
might mean sharing in their sin with them, and receiving the same punishment they receive.

And if/when we see a Christian using do we personally become disappointed with him or her, or secretly condemn that person for doing so?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

"we as Christians" encompasses a lot of very different groups and ways of thinking in this world we live in.

Healing in Jesus, reconciliation with the Father Yahweh in heaven, is the goal of the Gospel of Jesus for everyone as much as possible.

Complete abstinence is part of being healed/ saved in Jesus, as shown throughout all the examples in the New Testament.

My question is, do we as Christians accept harm reduction as a viable goal in assisting people with addictions, or do we expect complete abstinence as the only viable outcome for an individual?

 

[~Anastasia~]

Is there an underlying expectation that Christians should abstain from Drugs and Alcohol?
And if/when we see a Christian using do we personally become disappointed with him or her, or secretly condemn that person for doing so?

Do we secretly hold the attitude, "Don't smoke, don't drink, don't chew, and don't go out with girls or guys that do." Or "Don't snort, don't poke, don't toke, you'll only be seen as a joke.", or some other rhyme?

My question is, do we as Christians accept harm reduction as a viable goal in assisting people with addictions, or do we expect complete abstinence as the only viable outcome for an individual?

There is an underlying expectation (on God's part) that those who are His will not abuse the dignity of their bodies - they should not do drugs or drink to the point of drunkenness. God does not have the expectation of total abstinence from wine, etc, so we are being legalistic if we impose that on others.

(Someone who wishes to impose it on himself for the sake of God and with the right mindset does well, but that is between himself and God - it can also be done pridefully and would better not be undertaken in that case.)

Do we secretly condemn others for doing this? We'd better not. It is never our place to condemn anyone for any reason (by this I mean believe them to be irretrievably evil, beyond the grace of God, and/or certainly bound for hell/condemnation).

As with anything else, we should recognize sin. We should pray for and help in any way someone who is overtaken in sin. And if we are SURE it is our place (it usually isn't - and never is if we actually want to do it) - if we were SURE it was our place, we should attempt to restore them, taking care to our own selves, lest we ourselves fall into temptation (of the same or a different kind).

None of us should ever look down on anyone because of their particular sin. We all have our own particular sins to be concerned with.

 

[~Anastasia~]

My question is, do we as Christians accept harm reduction as a viable goal in assisting people with addictions, or do we expect complete abstinence as the only viable outcome for an individual?

If you are asking this question from a clinical standpoint ...

With some persons and some addictions, harm reduction is part of the process. But if you leave a person who has a tendency to addiction with a decreased level of using and give him any indication that he is now "ok" ... you simply leave the door open for relapse. In the case of addictions, total abstinence is generally the only viable solution.

You can't tell an alcoholic it's ok to go out only twice a week as long as he has less than three drinks. It's a recipe for disaster.

 

[heirmiles]

I was thinking more along the line of transitional outcomes in terms of the process of complete cessation on one hand, and the other being a ministerial approach for people who are suffering with addictions.

For believers in Christ the power of the Gospel is complete forgiveness of sin and the imputation of righteousness; that yes we are sinners, yet it is the goodness of God that leads us to repentance because of His goodness, forbearance and longsuffering. We have been "justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood through faith to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus." (Romans 3:24-26.) We are all sinners, yet as believers, God has done this anyway. In Christ we are forgiven. For believers Jesus is our foundation for hope and life.

There are many reasons why people use non-prescribed medications, who self medicate, and who end up becoming addicted to them. Unless a person is seriously unwell people don't try drugs expecting to become homeless addicts. Yet it happens, with all the pain and suffering that leads to this. I know people who will be taking Methedone for the rest of their lives because of the effects of heroine, people who are suffering from matastized Cancer who are using Pot and opioids to help with the pain. And a derivitave of marijuana to be able to keep food and fluids down while being treated with Chemo-therapy.

Then there are others who having been addicted to Pot, cocaine, Heroine, Crystal-meth, etc., who are mentally ill and smoke, and yet feel unreachable by the Church. Nicotine is highly addictive, yet the danger of cigarettes is the tar and the thousands of cancerous molecules produced by combustion.

I think allowing people the time to transition is integral to recovery, for some this might take longer than others, but Jesus will complete the work He has begun in them.

 

[dreadnought]

Is there an underlying expectation that Christians should abstain from Drugs and Alcohol?
And if/when we see a Christian using do we personally become disappointed with him or her, or secretly condemn that person for doing so?

Do we secretly hold the attitude, "Don't smoke, don't drink, don't chew, and don't go out with girls or guys that do." Or "Don't snort, don't poke, don't toke, you'll only be seen as a joke.", or some other rhyme?

My question is, do we as Christians accept harm reduction as a viable goal in assisting people with addictions, or do we expect complete abstinence as the only viable outcome for an individual?

Is there an underlying expectation that Christians should abstain from Drugs and Alcohol?
And if/when we see a Christian using do we personally become disappointed with him or her, or secretly condemn that person for doing so?

Do we secretly hold the attitude, "Don't smoke, don't drink, don't chew, and don't go out with girls or guys that do." Or "Don't snort, don't poke, don't toke, you'll only be seen as a joke.", or some other rhyme?

My question is, do we as Christians accept harm reduction as a viable goal in assisting people with addictions, or do we expect complete abstinence as the only viable outcome for an individual?

Alcohol, drugs, and tobacco are three different things. The Lord has led me to abandon all three, though the Bible does not condemn moderate use of alcohol.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Alcohol, drugs, and tobacco are three different things. The Lord has led me to abandon all three, though the Bible does not condemn moderate use of alcohol.

Perhaps..... don't forget that if anything someone does voluntarily causes those who are watching or who know , who are weak in faith , to stumble, then it is sinful (yes, even just one drink, let alone in moderation may be sinful) ..... someone 'little' might be persuaded as if "it's okay", and try to try "just a little"...... and die....

 

[~Anastasia~]

I was thinking more along the line of transitional outcomes in terms of the process of complete cessation on one hand, and the other being a ministerial approach for people who are suffering with addictions.

For believers in Christ the power of the Gospel is complete forgiveness of sin and the imputation of righteousness; that yes we are sinners, yet it is the goodness of God that leads us to repentance because of His goodness, forbearance and longsuffering. We have been "justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood through faith to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus." (Romans 3:24-26.) We are all sinners, yet as believers, God has done this anyway. In Christ we are forgiven. For believers Jesus is our foundation for hope and life.

There are many reasons why people use non-prescribed medications, who self medicate, and who end up becoming addicted to them. Unless a person is seriously unwell people don't try drugs expecting to become homeless addicts. Yet it happens, with all the pain and suffering that leads to this. I know people who will be taking Methedone for the rest of their lives because of the effects of heroine, people who are suffering from matastized Cancer who are using Pot and opioids to help with the pain. And a derivitave of marijuana to be able to keep food and fluids down while being treated with Chemo-therapy.

Then there are others who having been addicted to Pot, cocaine, Heroine, Crystal-meth, etc., who are mentally ill and smoke, and yet feel unreachable by the Church. Nicotine is highly addictive, yet the danger of cigarettes is the tar and the thousands of cancerous molecules produced by combustion.

I think allowing people the time to transition is integral to recovery, for some this might take longer than others, but Jesus will complete the work He has begun in them.

Right if that was for me, I acknowledge that there can be transitional steps.

And medically necessary medications are another matter which I ought to have differentiated.

If I understood your question, it was whether simply decreasing recreational usage was a reasonable end goal from a Christian standpoint, and I would say generally it's not sufficient.

 

[dreadnought]

Perhaps..... don't forget that if anything someone does voluntarily causes those who are watching or who know , who are weak in faith , to stumble, then it is sinful (yes, even just one drink, let alone in moderation may be sinful) ..... someone 'little' might be persuaded as if "it's okay", and try to try "just a little"...... and die....

I don't believe in drinking. Still, the Bible doesn't condemn moderate drinking.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I don't believe in drinking. Still, the Bible doesn't condemn moderate drinking.

What if a six year old son sees you drinking and it causes his little faith in Jesus to fail ? To think that sin (as he sees it) is okay as if it is okay to sin instead of to always do what is right with God ?

 

[dreadnought]

What if a six year old son sees you drinking and it causes his little faith in Jesus to fail ? To think that sin (as he sees it) is okay as if it is okay to sin instead of to always do what is right with God ?

If he thinks it's a sin to get up in the morning, should I stop getting up in the morning?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

If he sees someone sleeping with a different woman every night, sometimes 2 or 3 different women, and learned (thought) that that was okay to live that way,
should that be stopped before he ever sees it ? Does Yahweh's Word say something that causes a little boy to stumble, destroying his faith, is okay and will go unpunished, ever ?

Does Yahweh say it is okay to destroy** the faith of another for any reason, just because the one doing the destroying of faith thinks something is okay , anything at all ?

Or is it written (in context (see fully) ) Romans 14: 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.

Is your heart-motive to satisfy Yahweh - your goal to receive Praise from Yahweh by doing what is good and pleasing to Him? Or to displease Him ? (through disobedience, faithlessness, stubbornness, and unbelief) To bring harm or even destruction** to someone else weak in faith ?

Romans 14:15 If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating **destroy someone for whom Christ died.